Karlsson vs Doughty vs Hedman

[amnesiac]

how would you rank them?

Greatest overall (career, prime/peak)

Norris voting:
EK: 1,1,1,2,2,7
VH: 1,3,3,3,3,3,6,7
DD: 1,2,2,3,6,7

All-Star teams (1st/2nd):
EK: 1,1,1,1
VH: 1,2,2,2,2,2
DD: 1,1,2,2

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[Evergreen]

Hedman, Doughty, Karlsson

 

[Gurglesons]

EK65, Hedman, Doughty.

 

[SENStastic]

Karl> Hedman> Doughty

 

[kcunac]

Ek has the most counting stats and won 3 Norris to 1 each for the other two. I can certainly see why he would win this.

I’d prefer both prime and career Hedman then Doughty on my team then Karlsson though.

 

[norrisnick]

Basically the D version of Kopitar > Toews > Kane.

Hedman > Doughty > Karlsson.

 

[Trash Panda]

Drew’s ability to control games is lost on most, but he and headman are very close. Easy 1A/1B argument to be made there.

EK is not a defenseman that you win championships with, so he is definitely a distant 3rd unless all you care about is points.

 

[JimmyApples]

EK65 with Ottawa was a generational defenseman responsible for changing the way the game is played from the backend. Without Karlsson, there’s no Hughes, Makar, or Bouchard.

Hedman is next, and Due Doughty is a distant 3rd.

 

[Gurglesons]

Drew’s ability to control games is lost on most, but he and headman are very close. Easy 1A/1B argument to be made there.

EK is not a defenseman that you win championships with, so he is definitely a distant 3rd unless all you care about is points.

EK led a mediocre Senators team to G7 of the ECF.

He also was very good with the Sharks in their WCF run.

Seems like a victim of circumstance rather than a player you don’t win championships. I don’t think there is any difference between the Lightning with Hedman or EK if you replace them.

Basically the D version of Kopitar > Toews > Kane.

Hedman > Doughty > Kane.

Interesting to see this take given how you view McDavid over forwards.

EK’s 3 Norris trophies is rarefied work and he’s the only defenseman in the modern era to hit 100 pts.

 

[Xspyrit]

Karlsson - Hedman - Doughty​

By 2024, there is still going to be a bunch of hockey fans that don't see the whole picture about this "defense thing" but I'd say this whole thing will be more assimilated by 2030-32

 

[Felidae]

EK led a mediocre Senators team to G7 of the ECF.

He also was very good with the Sharks in their WCF run.

Seems like a victim of circumstance rather than a player you don’t win championships. I don’t think there is any difference between the Lightning with Hedman or EK if you replace them.



Interesting to see this take given how you view McDavid over forwards.

EK’s 3 Norris trophies is rarefied work and he’s the only defenseman in the modern era to hit 100 pts.

And the only defenseman of the 21st century to finish top 5 in scoring and top 10 in scoring more than once.

 

[DitchMarner]

I haven't followed Doughty that closely the last number of years. I know circa 2014 he was great in general. He was physical, could handle the puck, scored points and could dominate play.

From what I remember, by about 2018 he had become a shell of his former self and had terrible analytics for a while. Some thought he was playing lazy hockey due to disinterest.

He seems to have gotten back on track, but how good has he been the last three or four years compared to his prime?

I feel like Hedman and Karlsson both have more seasons/time as good to elite defensemen.

 

[Gurglesons]

I haven't followed Doughty that closely the last number of years. I know circa 2014 he was great in general. He was physical, could handle the puck, scored points and could dominate play.

From what I remember, by about 2018 he had become a shell of his former self and had terrible analytics for a while. Some thought he was playing lazy hockey due to disinterest.

He seems to have gotten back on track, but how good has he been the last three or four years compared to his prime?

I feel like Hedman and Karlsson both have more seasons/time as good to elite defensemen.

Doughty has been good since the Kings have returned to the playoffs.

I feel like Doughty gets a ton of rope because of how good he was for Canada in the Olympics in 2010 and then the Kings in the cup runs. Outside of those performances I don’t think he really comes close to touching EK or Hedman career wise.

You can probably argue Hedman was the best all around D from 2015 - 2022. So I get the idea of placing him 1st.

 

[Regal]

Doughty has been good since the Kings have returned to the playoffs.

I feel like Doughty gets a ton of rope because of how good he was for Canada in the Olympics in 2010 and then the Kings in the cup runs. Outside of those performances I don’t think he really comes close to touching EK or Hedman career wise.

You can probably argue Hedman was the best all around D from 2015 - 2022. So I get the idea of placing him 1st.

To be fair, that was one of the weakest eras we’ve ever seen for consistency. Karlsson kept getting hurt, Doughty kind of gave up after the Kings went in the shitter, Keith and Chara got old, Weber got hurt, etc and there was a lull in new talent before the Makar, Hughes, Fox, Heiskanen, etc types started coming in.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

And the only defenseman of the 21st century to finish top 5 in scoring and top 10 in scoring more than once.

He also led the league in assists during that top 5 year

 

[Shane Diesel]

Hedman - Doughty - Karlsson

Can't put Karlsson ahead of Doughty or Hedman, despite the gaudy offensive stats, when he didn't even know what the defense zone is. All gas, no brakes.

Give me defenders that know what defense is and can still contribute in the offensive zone.

 

[Gurglesons]

To be fair, that was one of the weakest eras we’ve ever seen for consistency. Karlsson kept getting hurt, Doughty kind of gave up after the Kings went in the shitter, Keith and Chara got old, Weber got hurt, etc and there was a lull in new talent before the Makar, Hughes, Fox, Heiskanen, etc types started coming in.

I'm not sure I'd call a defenseman back stopping his team to four SCF as a weak era of consistency.

Hedman was the most consistent player on the franchise that was closest to being a dynasty since the Islanders / Oilers.

 

[wetcoast]

Hedman, Doughty, Karlsson

I voted this way but thought long and hard about Doughty ahead of Hedman.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Drew’s ability to control games is lost on most, but he and headman are very close. Easy 1A/1B argument to be made there.

EK is not a defenseman that you win championships with, so he is definitely a distant 3rd unless all you care about is points.

/thread

 

[Hippasus]

EK65 with Ottawa was a generational defenseman responsible for changing the way the game is played from the backend. Without Karlsson, there’s no Hughes, Makar, or Bouchard.

Hedman is next, and Due Doughty is a distant 3rd.

I don't think Bouchard fits in with the other three. He carries the puck and makes good plays like outlet passes, but I wouldn't consider him a speed demon.

Doughty seems to me to have more defensive zone presence than Hedman, but maybe Hedman is just more subtle about it.

 

[wetcoast]

Drew’s ability to control games is lost on most, but he and headman are very close. Easy 1A/1B argument to be made there.

EK is not a defenseman that you win championships with, so he is definitely a distant 3rd unless all you care about is points.

Exactly this even if it's a bit harsh on EK, the other 2 are just Dmen most NHL coaches and GMs would build their teams around the last 15 years, while EK is the guys fans would take in fantasy hockey pools.

I took Hedman but really it's a 1a/1b situation with Doughty.

 

[Janvonpobben]

Doughtys prime was too short. Hedman has been better for much longer.

Does anyone have top 5 norris finishes between the two?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Doughtys prime was too short. Hedman has been better for much longer.

Does anyone have top 5 norris finishes between the two?

not sure I follow, they won one each.

Karlsson won 3x, and finished second twice.

 

[Janvonpobben]

not sure I follow, they won one each.

Karlsson won 3x, and finished second twice.

Top 5 Norris placement. You know, the voting process every year.

 

[amnesiac]

Doughtys prime was too short. Hedman has been better for much longer.

Does anyone have top 5 norris finishes between the two?

VH: 1,3,3,3,3,3,6,7
DD: 1,2,2,3,6,7
EK: 1,1,1,2,2,7