Confirmed with Link: K'Andre Miller - Re-signs with Rangers - 2 years @ 3.872 million

[SnowblindNYR]

They also have to do with value. Pan's a bad value at this point and has been for years. He's not the 2nd best player in the NHL, he's not the 15th best player. His sole contribution is scoring and he was 17th regular season. He's probably the 35th best player in the NHL if he is lucky. In the playoffs he wasn't the 50th best player. Hell he wasn't even the 10th best NYR...
Why are we arguing this at this point? He's a regular season producer who has failed us in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. He produces at a high level during the regular season. Is he worth 11.5 million AAV? f*** no. Anybody think he is?

I'm not arguing he's overpaid, I'm arguing that he has to be the second best player in the world because at the time he had the second highest contract. I don't know where his contract stands now but as mentioned the cap realities changed because if Covid. You're also using his later contract years most contracts look worse in the final years.

 

[chosen]

As expected? Short list. But irrelevant. How does this absolve the player that should be our leading performer? And he disappeared last year too. When many others lived up to expectations. I didn’t say he was THE problem, I disagreed that he wasn’t PART of the problem.
Yes one of the central reasons for our regular season success… and our playoff failure. Personally, if we are going to get blown out in the first round, I’d rather miss the playoffs and get better draft position.

The terminally negative focus on one season's playoffs and extrapolate it into the whole picture.

Those same folks in the season before, when the team made it to the Semis, ripped them as a fluke.

If folks are going to point to a single season loss in the first and put meaning to it, and deride them when they go to the Semis, it becomes obvious that those fans will explain how bad things are unless a Cup is won.

In 94 they won, and a fair amount of fans moaned that they destroyed the team in order to win.

Some fans can't seem to enjoy much at all.

I wish they would win it all every season, but too many don't understand what a huge role luck plays in all of this.

On a funny side note, I'm lucky enough to have been in the building in Game 7 in 94. They had never won in my lifetime, so it was amazinly important. After they won, it became less important for a while.

I understand how younger fans who have never experienced it feel. Finally seeing them win is unbelievable and I hope everyone gets to experience it, but it becomes a little less crazy for a couple of years afterwards.

 

[Smart Alek]

Still think this kid has Norris potential.

He does. There's no upper limit on his potential. It's just up to him how much of his life he wants to devote to it.

 

[tlk]

Still think this kid has Norris potential.

Would not be surprised that he has a Norris caliber season on his contract year.

Potential is one thing. With his physique, reach, skating, and shooting the potential is obviously there.

The problem in him playing smart and using all the tools to the best effect.

 

[bhamill]

I'm not arguing he's overpaid, I'm arguing that he has to be the second best player in the world because at the time he had the second highest contract. I don't know where his contract stands now but as mentioned the cap realities changed because if Covid. You're also using his later contract years most contracts look worse in the final years.

So he’s a bad value then. We can make all the excuses we want, and even if some are valid reasons, that does not change the fact that it’s a bad value signing.

 

[bhamill]

The terminally negative focus on one season's playoffs and extrapolate it into the whole picture.

Those same folks in the season before, when the team made it to the Semis, ripped them as a fluke.

If folks are going to point to a single season loss in the first and put meaning to it, and deride them when they go to the Semis, it becomes obvious that those fans will explain how bad things are unless a Cup is won.

In 94 they won, and a fair amount of fans moaned that they destroyed the team in order to win.

Some fans can't seem to enjoy much at all.

I wish they would win it all every season, but too many don't understand what a huge role luck plays in all of this.

On a funny side note, I'm lucky enough to have been in the building in Game 7 in 94. They had never won in my lifetime, so it was amazinly important. After they won, it became less important for a while.

I understand how younger fans who have never experienced it feel. Finally seeing them win is unbelievable and I hope everyone gets to experience it, but it becomes a little less crazy for a couple of years afterwards.

Two playoff disappearances. Not one. Our only two with him.
who says I don’t enjoy the games? Of course I do. But I can also be honest about the fact that he is a bad contract. I don’t have be in denial in order to enjoy things. Hahahaha.
Unless he plays close to value one of these post seasons we will not win, not with him eating so much cap relative to contribution. That’s just reality.

 

[duhmetreE]

Potential is one thing. With his physique, reach, skating, and shooting the potential is obviously there.

The problem in him playing smart and using all the tools to the best effect.

coaching.

a lot of our 'young players' make mistakes. That comes down to being coached up. I haven't seen that for some time. Quinn was in over his head and Gallant never even talked to the players and didn't even have meaningful practices. For some players still developing how are you suppose to grow? Even for vets, your mind/skills need to be refined.

The mickymouse practices we ran the past 2 years have shown our degrading teamwork/situational awareness/puck skills

 

[chosen]

Two playoff disappearances. Not one. Our only two with him.
who says I don’t enjoy the games? Of course I do. But I can also be honest about the fact that he is a bad contract. I don’t have be in denial in order to enjoy things. Hahahaha.
Unless he plays close to value one of these post seasons we will not win, not with him eating so much cap relative to contribution. That’s just reality.

You can have problems with the contract, but as long as he remains the team's best even-strength scorer he goes squarely into the asset column.

Two seasons ago, Panarin was playing hurt in the playoffs.

 

[Crease]

Playoff choker is a determination reserved for after the end of the player’s career. So many guys have been non factors in one playoffs only to go on a Conn Smyth like tear in another. Jury’s still out on Panarin because he was abysmal two years running and desperately needs to change his approach.

 

[bhamill]

You can have problems with the contract, but as long as he remains the team's best even-strength scorer he goes squarely into the asset column.

Two seasons ago, Panarin was playing hurt in the playoffs.

Relative to the cap he eats, no, he does not go squarely in the asset column.
Injured? What was the injury? That’s speculation. And if he hadn’t disappeared this year too, I might have bought in. But I don’t.

Playoff choker is a determination reserved for after the end of the player’s career. So many guys have been non factors in one playoffs only to go on a Conn Smyth like tear in another. Jury’s still out on Panarin because he was abysmal two years running and desperately needs to change his approach.

So far hes been MIA post season for us. That’s just factual. Will he disappear this coming season, assuming we make the playoffs? Sure hope not, but if I HAD to bet one way or the other, I wouldn’t optimistically put my money on him playing to his contract. I’d be glad to be wrong though.

 

[chosen]

Relative to the cap he eats, no, he does not go squarely in the asset column.
Injured? What was the injury? That’s speculation. And if he hadn’t disappeared this year too, I might have bought in. But I don’t.


So far hes been MIA post season for us. That’s just factual. Will he disappear this coming season, assuming we make the playoffs? Sure hope not, but if I HAD to bet one way or the other, I wouldn’t optimistically put my money on him playing to his contract. I’d be glad to be wrong though.

It's not speculation.

We know he was hurt near the end of the season and missed the remaining games.

Then, he didn't even show up for the signing of the jerseys night. Every other Ranger was there, including Blais. There were rumors Panarin was seen with his arm in a sling.

To me, that says he was hurt.

 

[bhamill]

It's not speculation.

We know he was hurt near the end of the season and missed the remaining games.

Then, he didn't even show up for the signing of the jerseys night. Every other Ranger was there, including Blais. There were rumors Panarin was seen with his arm in a sling.

To me, that says he was hurt.

"Rumors"... "To me that says he was hurt"... that's the very definition of speculation.

Again, hope he's a bat out of hell this year and then continues it post season... but I'm not counting on it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

When the Rangers had breakup day in 2022, they disclosed what everyone was playing through.

We heard about Strome's hip
We heard about Goodrow's broken leg.
We heard about Lindgren's ankle

Nothing on Panarin. Zip. IF he was dinged up it wasn't serious enough to keep him out (or even from taking part in optionals, which became a thing for him once they hit the Carolina series.)

The excuses need to stop.

 

[chosen]

"Rumors"... "To me that says he was hurt"... that's the very definition of speculation.

Again, hope he's a bat out of hell this year and then continues it post season... but I'm not counting on it.

You left out the part about him missing games and not showing up for the jersey ceremony.

It's fine to grind your axe because you don't like him, but he was hurt.

 

[bhamill]

You left out the part about him missing games and not showing up for the jersey ceremony.

It's fine to grind your axe because you don't like him, but he was hurt.

I actually don’t dislike him at all, and love him when he is on, he’s just a bad value contract at this point. Just like Laf is a disappointment in relation to his draft position. I’m still a big fan of Laf’s as well, but I’m able to just realistically look at it and accept the facts.
And I didn’t leave anything out by design, just saw no need to retype everything when I already quoted you. It’s obvious that all of these things taken together lead to SPECULATION on your part. SPECULATION is guessing. It’s what we do when we don’t have factual confirmation of something. And we do NOT have factual confirmation that he was playing hurt.
I get it: you like him and need to have an excuse other than that he just performed badly. And if it was a one off post season flop we could say it was a fluke or have more reason to speculate that he was injured, though mysteriously when the team released who was injured he wasn’t among them, but it WASN’T a one off. He disappeared two years straight in the playoffs. Hopefully it won’t be three. My hopes honestly aren’t too high, but we shall see.

 

[Synergy27]

Panarin is 31 and his decline directly corresponds to the Wilson incident. If you are betting on a return to form the odds are against you.

 

[chosen]

I actually don’t dislike him at all, and love him when he is on, he’s just a bad value contract at this point. Just like Laf is a disappointment in relation to his draft position. I’m still a big fan of Laf’s as well, but I’m able to just realistically look at it and accept the facts.
And I didn’t leave anything out by design, just saw no need to retype everything when I already quoted you. It’s obvious that all of these things taken together lead to SPECULATION on your part. SPECULATION is guessing. It’s what we do when we don’t have factual confirmation of something. And we do NOT have factual confirmation that he was playing hurt.
I get it: you like him and need to have an excuse other than that he just performed badly. And if it was a one off post season flop we could say it was a fluke or have more reason to speculate that he was injured, though mysteriously when the team released who was injured he wasn’t among them, but it WASN’T a one off. He disappeared two years straight in the playoffs. Hopefully it won’t be three. My hopes honestly aren’t too high, but we shall see.

One Ranger in the top 40.

One.

 

[GAGLine]

One Ranger in the top 40.

One.

One Hurricane in the top 40.
One Knight. One King. One Oiler. One Wild. One Kraken. And one Canadien.

There are 14 teams with no players in the top 40:

Washington
Columbus
Islanders
Philly
Detroit
Winnipeg
Nashville
St. Louis
Arizona
Chicago
Calgary
Vancouver
San Jose
Anaheim

Counting the Rangers, 22 out of 32 teams have 1 or fewer in the top 40.

 

[EdJovanovski]

One Ranger in the top 40.

One.

And it’s the whipping boy, seems about right.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

And it’s the whipping boy, seems about right.

Guy who makes a shit ton of money has no shown in the playoffs 2 years in a row and gets shit on.

Sounds… reasonable?

 

[bhamill]

One Ranger in the top 40.

One.

And this is an argument countering my criticism that he disappears in the playoffs how? Since I have not once said he isn’t good in the regular season. I’ll answer that for you: it isn’t.
Besides, the third highest paid player in the league being number 13 in the league at a non scoring stat is not exactly a ringing endorsement of his contract value no matter how you slice it.
I have to say, to use this stat to try to rekindle an argument 4 days later tells me you must be bored. Hahahah.
I don’t care how good he is regular season if he doesn’t show up for the playoffs. Hey, third time is the charm, no? Let’s revisit this in the spring. It would be nice if you could reasonably “I told you so” me then.

One Hurricane in the top 40.
One Knight. One King. One Oiler. One Wild. One Kraken. And one Canadien.

There are 14 teams with no players in the top 40:

Washington
Columbus
Islanders
Philly
Detroit
Winnipeg
Nashville
St. Louis
Arizona
Chicago
Calgary
Vancouver
San Jose
Anaheim

Counting the Rangers, 22 out of 32 teams have 1 or fewer in the top 40.

It’s a straw grasp. No one says he isn’t a good regular season player. Well, at least not me. And this is just a super weird flex.

 

[IDvsEGO]

And this is an argument countering my criticism that he disappears in the playoffs how? Since I have not once said he isn’t good in the regular season. I’ll answer that for you: it isn’t.
Besides, the third highest paid player in the league being number 13 in the league at a non scoring stat is not exactly a ringing endorsement of his contract value no matter how you slice it.
I have to say, to use this stat to try to rekindle an argument 4 days later tells me you must be bored. Hahahah.
I don’t care how good he is regular season if he doesn’t show up for the playoffs. Hey, third time is the charm, no? Let’s revisit this in the spring. It would be nice if you could reasonably “I told you so” me then.


It’s a straw grasp. No one says he isn’t a good regular season player. Well, at least not me. And this is just a super weird flex.

Its a scoring stat, just a non traditional one.

 

[bhamill]

It’s a scoring stat, just a non traditional one.

Sounds like semantics, scoring OPPORTUNITIES are not scoring. Neither are shots on goal considered scoring stats. Goals and assists are scoring. But fine. That doesn’t change my point. At all. Panarin is paid to put up points.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Sounds like semantics, scoring OPPORTUNITIES are not scoring. Neither are shots on goal considered scoring stats. Goals and assists are scoring. But fine. That doesn’t change my point. At all. Panarin is paid to put up points.

It’s essentially who creates the most offense.
Notice how everyone on that list puts up points?

 

[bhamill]

It’s essentially who creates the most offense.
Notice how everyone on that list puts up points?

I also notice how some much more valuable, and higher scoring, players than Panarin are further down the list…
Again being 13th at an “offense” stat is not a giant justification of being the 3rd highest salary in the league.
And again again, my primary criticism of Panarin, and his contract’s value, is his playoff disappearing act.