Player Discussion Kaiden Guhle

[Redux91]

Not really. That tournament is C teams with a lot of regulars not there.
I don't really value anything happening over there. In fact, I couldn't care less about that tournament.

?
So let us comment on his play over there in peace..?
Go eat a sandwich?
Lol

 

[Mrb1p]

You didn't answer specifically what you will see change in his game - that will help us win games.

Right now, I think the best dcore we can ice is with Guhle on the top pair with Matheson. Matheson, I would expect to be an unmitigated disaster on the right side. Sure I'd be in favor of drafting a Levshunov and going:

Guhle - Levshunov
Hutson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Mailloux

But, chances are Levshunov won't be available. And, if you draft an RD you miss out on a forward, which is a more critical need than having Guhle play on the left than on the right. Ideally Barron emerges. But that is looking less likely than more likely.

You can see it in pass receptions, you can see it in his play off the board, you can see it in his positioning too. The defense off the rush is also slightly worse. Outside pivots on your strong hand are much tougher than on your off hand. Think about the radius of a stick and the encumberment of having the stick on the side which has the shortest path around you for an opposing player. For breakout, it means he has his back turned, the Kucherov hit is a good example of that too. He was left unprotected and of course the situation is worse than it could probably ever be because Kuch is a dirty POG but the play moves in his back, Matheson takes the rightful place of the left side D, Guhle has two choices, move the puck back and take the hit (what he did), or skate it up from his off-hand, which would take a fraction of second more than if he did scoop it up from his strong hand. Not a situation you want to be in. Then when he skates up, the stick is much closer to the forechecker, had he not move the puck behind him. All in all, he made the right play there, he was just a victim of being used on the RD and was in a lose-lose situation.

There's no defender that is stronger on his off-side, thats just impossible logistically. Of course Guhle is still good, of course he's still responsible, but he's just that much better on the left side. It's kind of like handicapping a player a little bit everywhere. Why would you want to do that ?

 

[Colezuki]

You didn't answer specifically what you will see change in his game - that will help us win games.

Right now, I think the best dcore we can ice is with Guhle on the top pair with Matheson. Matheson, I would expect to be an unmitigated disaster on the right side. Sure I'd be in favor of drafting a Levshunov and going:

Guhle - Levshunov
Hutson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Mailloux

But, chances are Levshunov won't be available. And, if you draft an RD you miss out on a forward, which is a more critical need than having Guhle play on the left than on the right. Ideally Barron emerges. But that is looking less likely than more likely.

I don't know what else to say but he looks better at LD then RD? is it going to flip the script and will he win every game, no, is he a better defenseman at L (his natural side) then R (His offside), yes, if we're thinking long term Guhle should be on his Left and we should have someone on the right with Matheson who is either not in the long term plans or is and is trying to fill that void.

Guhle is just as important to the long term success of this team as Caufield, Dach, Reinbacher and whomever we draft at 5th overall this year.

 

[morhilane]

'm not sure why they feel the absolute need to have Ghule with him.

That's because Matheson doesn't help the kids to improve defensively. He either plays with Guhle or Savard because of it.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's because Matheson doesn't help the kids to improve defensively. He either plays with Guhle or Savard because of it.

The Great vet that needs to be insulated by the 22 YO sophomore he's "protecting"

 

[Captain Mountain]

That's because Matheson doesn't help the kids to improve defensively. He either plays with Guhle or Savard because of it.

Yes he does. Matheson plays grotesquely difficult minutes, which frees up easier minutes for younger guys. He plays with Guhle or Savard because they're the only ones that don't get absolutely butchered in those minutes. Its not like MSL didn't try other D higher in the lineup, it worked even worse. Matheson is a veteran who can handle the pressure and the mental aspect without changing what he needs to do what he needs to be effective, he's just not a good enough player to play the kind of minutes he does. Its not the same for guys with no or limited experience.

Like, Hughes has been crystal clear why they have Matheson around. When more young D than Guhle show they can handle those minutes, Montreal will start using their D the way most teams do.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes he does. Matheson plays grotesquely difficult minutes, which frees up easier minutes for younger guys. He plays with Guhle or Savard because they're the only ones that don't get absolutely butchered in those minutes. Its not like MSL didn't try other D higher in the lineup, it worked even worse. Matheson is a veteran who can handle the pressure and the mental aspect without changing what he needs to do what he needs to be effective, he's just not a good enough player to play the kind of minutes he does. Its not the same for guys with no or limited experience.

Like, Hughes has been crystal clear why they have Matheson around. When more young D than Guhle show they can handle those minutes, Montreal will start using their D the way most teams do.

False dillemma because Guhle plays the minutes Matheson would play on the right side. If he's insulating someone, then moving Guhle back to LD insulates the same players. It's Kovacevic and Savard that he "insulates".

 

[angusyoung]

The Great vet that needs to be insulated by the 22 YO sophomore he's "protecting"

Since it appears you consider yourself an expert on evaluating defense-men,what's you 2 cents on McAvoy? blew my mind learning that he makes 9.5

 

[26Mats]

I don't know what else to say but he looks better at LD then RD? is it going to flip the script and will he win every game, no, is he a better defenseman at L (his natural side) then R (His offside), yes, if we're thinking long term Guhle should be on his Left and we should have someone on the right with Matheson who is either not in the long term plans or is and is trying to fill that void.

Guhle is just as important to the long term success of this team as Caufield, Dach, Reinbacher and whomever we draft at 5th overall this year.

I agree that Guhle is just as important to the long term success of the team as the other core pieces.

But if you can't articulate what aspects he is/will be better at playing on the left side, so be it.

I've only been able to watch so much recently. In the little I saw, I really liked the top 4 of Matheson-Guhle and Hutson-Savard at the end of the year. Then Xhekaj-Mailloux seems like a really good pair long term. It would make sense to move Matheson for an RD of equal value. We'll see...

 

[Miller Time]

I agree that Guhle is just as important to the long term success of the team as the other core pieces.

But if you can't articulate what aspects he is/will be better at playing on the left side, so be it.

I've only been able to watch so much recently. In the little I saw, I really liked the top 4 of Matheson-Guhle and Hutson-Savard at the end of the year. Then Xhekaj-Mailloux seems like a really good pair long term. It would make sense to move Matheson for an RD of equal value. We'll see...

Be very difficult to move Matheson for equal value vet... His cap hit is tremendous value, and will only be that much more valuable after this summer's cap increased fuelled spending spree.

Guhle playing another year mostly at RD is not a concern nor a setback imo. His versatility is an asset and further refining his ability to be effective on his off-side is more likely to help rather than hinder his overall long term impact.

Another 60+ point, 24+min/night year from Matheson and by next summer his expiring <5M$ contract will be massively valuable in trade IF the Habs decide we have the in-house ELC/RFA options to replace him for the '25-'26 season (which will undoubtedly be a playoff focused year)

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Yes for some injuries, no for others.

now you've got my interest, what are some examples of both cases?

 

[26Mats]

Be very difficult to move Matheson for equal value vet... His cap hit is tremendous value, and will only be that much more valuable after this summer's cap increased fuelled spending spree.

Guhle playing another year mostly at RD is not a concern nor a setback imo. His versatility is an asset and further refining his ability to be effective on his off-side is more likely to help rather than hinder his overall long term impact.

Another 60+ point, 24+min/night year from Matheson and by next summer his expiring <5M$ contract will be massively valuable in trade IF the Habs decide we have the in-house ELC/RFA options to replace him for the '25-'26 season (which will undoubtedly be a playoff focused year)

From what I've seen so far, I'm fine with Guhle playing RD even long term. But for sure I need to see more.

 

[angusyoung]

From what I've seen so far, I'm fine with Guhle pkaying RD even long term. But for sure I need to see more.

There are pros and cons to playing either side,it's not as big a deal as so many make it out to be.

 

[Mrb1p]

I agree that Guhle is just as important to the long term success of the team as the other core pieces.

But if you can't articulate what aspects he is/will be better at playing on the left side, so be it.

I've only been able to watch so much recently. In the little I saw, I really liked the top 4 of Matheson-Guhle and Hutson-Savard at the end of the year. Then Xhekaj-Mailloux seems like a really good pair long term. It would make sense to move Matheson for an RD of equal value. We'll see...

Just gonna ignore all the details I'll give you

 

[JoelWarlord]

But if you can't articulate what aspects he is/will be better at playing on the left side, so be it.

Is that something that really even needs to be articulated? Virtually every defenceman plays better on their strong side, off the top of my head TJ Brodie is the only exception I can think of.

 

[cphabs]

Kid is outstanding. Of course he’s going to get lumped up on our shit team while playing top minutes.

 

[Canadiens98]

At least next season I see him on Matheson's right but maybe long term we'll find a partner for him where we can shift him back to the left. Maybe Mailloux ends up being that guy? Could even be someone we select in this draft if 3 or 4 of the top forwards go before our pick ..

 

[26Mats]

Is that something that really even needs to be articulated? Virtually every defenceman plays better on their strong side, off the top of my head TJ Brodie is the only exception I can think of.

If it's virtually everyone, then it isn't everyone. So I wouldn't assume it for anyone without seeing the discrepancies.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can see it in pass receptions, you can see it in his play off the board, you can see it in his positioning too. The defense off the rush is also slightly worse. Outside pivots on your strong hand are much tougher than on your off hand. Think about the radius of a stick and the encumberment of having the stick on the side which has the shortest path around you for an opposing player. For breakout, it means he has his back turned, the Kucherov hit is a good example of that too. He was left unprotected and of course the situation is worse than it could probably ever be because Kuch is a dirty POG but the play moves in his back, Matheson takes the rightful place of the left side D, Guhle has two choices, move the puck back and take the hit (what he did), or skate it up from his off-hand, which would take a fraction of second more than if he did scoop it up from his strong hand. Not a situation you want to be in. Then when he skates up, the stick is much closer to the forechecker, had he not move the puck behind him. All in all, he made the right play there, he was just a victim of being used on the RD and was in a lose-lose situation.

There's no defender that is stronger on his off-side, thats just impossible logistically. Of course Guhle is still good, of course he's still responsible, but he's just that much better on the left side. It's kind of like handicapping a player a little bit everywhere. Why would you want to do that ?

Why would you do it? Because the coach feels like he can handle it and we need some guys to play RD and handle the min's that go with the top pairing. If anything, it's testing him and if/when he moves to LD, it's a smooth transition.

There does seem to be a shortage at RD and not sure when that changes. We are not the only team that has had to do this kind of thing.

Do you think this ruins his development or progression?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Is that something that really even needs to be articulated? Virtually every defenceman plays better on their strong side, off the top of my head TJ Brodie is the only exception I can think of.

Who's going to play RD this past season and next then? Remember, it's 20+ min's a game and tough match ups. Savard is the only trusted RD we have that can handle those kinds of min's. Barron was/is not ready. Reinbacher might be this coming season but we will see about that.

Yeah, we are rebuilding and having guys learn on the job but this is not a Junior league. It's the NHL. Sticking Barron there and watching him make mistake after mistake is not good for either Barron or the team.

I like to think they prefer Guhle on the left side but they were out of options. He's the most trusted young guy we have so...

 

[Heffyhoof]

If it's virtually everyone, then it isn't everyone. So I wouldn't assume it for anyone without seeing the discrepancies.

If you're the one arguing that Ghule is one of the exceptions to the rule whereas the other guy isn't, the burden of proof is on you.

 

[LaP]

Who's going to play RD this past season and next then? Remember, it's 20+ min's a game and tough match ups. Savard is the only trusted RD we have that can handle those kinds of min's. Barron was/is not ready. Reinbacher might be this coming season but we will see about that.

Yeah, we are rebuilding and having guys learn on the job but this is not a Junior league. It's the NHL. Sticking Barron there and watching him make mistake after mistake is not good for either Barron or the team.

I like to think they prefer Guhle on the left side but they were out of options. He's the most trusted young guy we have so...

Savard will be 34 it's very unlikely he'll be able to handler such load for a significant period of time. He's very close to the mid 30ies wall one season at the most imo.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Who's going to play RD this past season and next then? Remember, it's 20+ min's a game and tough match ups. Savard is the only trusted RD we have that can handle those kinds of min's. Barron was/is not ready. Reinbacher might be this coming season but we will see about that.

Yeah I don't have a real issue with Guhle playing on the right side for periods of time over the short term for the reasons you mentioned but that's a separate discussion. I was just responding to the point about whether or not Guhle would be better on the left side.

 

[26Mats]

If you're the one arguing that Ghule is one of the exceptions to the rule whereas the other guy isn't, the burden of proof is on you.

I'm not arguing that, I'm asking how he's seen that Guhle is better on the left side. The only answer I got was he's more comfortable on the left side because he looks more comfortable.

 

[Heffyhoof]

I'm not arguing that, I'm asking how he's seen that Guhle is better on the left side. The only answer I got was he's more comfortable on the left side because he looks more comfortable.

Hmmm

Is that something that really even needs to be articulated? Virtually every defenceman plays better on their strong side, off the top of my head TJ Brodie is the only exception I can think of.

Your reply

If it's virtually everyone, then it isn't everyone. So I wouldn't assume it for anyone without seeing the discrepancies.

That and you've been demanding that people come up with what aspects of the game they think he'll be better at when playing his natural side. Again, burden of proof falls on the person arguing the exception to the rule, so you should be listing what aspects of his game you think are improved playing on his offside. Done arguing semantics though.