Kadri, how is this even possible?

[Gary Nylund]

It's true. He's only 5 away from being 3rd behind Ovechkin and Laine.

Can you provide a link? I'm so curious as this is such a mind blowing stat and it just blows my mind that people can be complaining about Kadri. I just don't get it. I mean Pookie OK, he's already admitted he's biased and can't get over it but other than him ... I just don't get it.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

You attacked him period questioning him with a useless team stat that lacks context.

Naz leads our Center is D zone starts. Plays against top lines and is also on the ice late in games when we are leading. Look at the leagues top minus players you will see Malkin is a minus 8 he must be a horrible center as well.

From what I can see Lindholm plays the most defensive zone starts (64.9 dZS%) of the leafs centers as a percentage (not total defensive zone starts which is where Kadri is 1st I'm guessing)

 

[ULF_55]

It was more Leivo on the third line out of place. He was able to build back up his rating on the fourth line, but he was dragging down the third line for the first part of the season.

To be fair Leivo was on the bench for almost an entire season, so if it takes him a couple months of playing to get up to speed I'll give him that.

 

[ULF_55]

Is that really true? Seems to good to be true but if it is that's incredible!

I think tied for 8th. really.
NHL.com - Stats

Tied for 35th. for ESG.
NHL.com - Stats

Interestingly, Grabner is 17th. ESG the same period.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

how is it possible that people still take +/- seriously? it's not even close to a worthwhile stat

 

[ULF_55]

You do realize that he plays against top lines almost every night and doesn’t have the best line mates.

He was minus last year as well. And he played some tough assignments last year as well.

But he isn't out there by himself, he has linemates, so his line plays against tough lines, not just Kadri.

Anyway, as many have said you should not use a small sample size (Kadri's start or Nylanders 20 games without a center) to evaluate a player.

 

[Pi]

Can you provide a link? I'm so curious as this is such a mind blowing stat and it just blows my mind that people can be complaining about Kadri. I just don't get it. I mean Pookie OK, he's already admitted he's biased and can't get over it but other than him ... I just don't get it.

NHL.com - Stats

Not sure if it will work or not.

Kadri is tied for 2nd in PPG in that span behind Malkin if you filter by centers. 9th overall.

He's also top 20 in goal scoring period and 11th for centers.

 

[hector morrison]

how is it possible that people still take +/- seriously? it's not even close to a worthwhile stat

It's like the first glance at a crime scene! Can lead to all kinds of assumptions,but more work is needed to get an accurate summary.

 

[ULF_55]

NHL.com - Stats

Not sure if it will work or not.

Kadri is tied for 2nd in PPG in that span behind Malkin if you filter by centers. 9th overall.

He's also top 20 in goal scoring period and 11th for centers.

Over the past 2 years, he's tied for 2nd. on the Leafs for ESG, with Marleau and van Riemsdyk, behind Matthews.

Not close to best GPG though Holl has that one.

 

[PromisedLand]

I think tied for 8th. really.
NHL.com - Stats

Tied for 35th. for ESG.
NHL.com - Stats

Interestingly, Grabner is 17th. ESG the same period.

if you do not include this season (since it is still ongong and kadri could pick up pace); if half the posts he has hit (12) could have gone in; he would have 6 more goals and would have reasonable production


ES scoring - 28th overall
NHL.com - Stats

PP scoring - 9th overall
NHL.com - Stats

Goals per game - 21st overall (for players that have played at least 100 games)
NHL.com - Stats

Total goals scored - 17th overall
NHL.com - Stats

 

[Mr Hockey]

how is it possible that people still take +/- seriously? it's not even close to a worthwhile stat

its a stat, just like the others, no biggie, 98% of this board 4/5 years ago claimed Jake Gardiner to be one of the best defensive D-men in the league because of his Corsi against, Hero charts posted regularly trying to prove it, , I obviously lol'ed because I knew better and battle it out, and once again time proved me to be right.

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

Kadri is fine. He's a talented centre.
I still expect 25-34 goal season.
Imagine the team without him - wed be softer than butter.

Watch him score 5 goals in the next 5 games

He is however not the fastest skater

 

[Pookie]

Where are you getting 101.4 career? Are you providing numbers without context again, Pookie?

Nazem Kadri NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Pookie]

Where can you join this fan club?

They give out pamphlets in the Lobotomy Recovery Room.

 

[The Apologist]

Where can you join this fan club?

I assumed you or the one person who liked your comment were the president .

There was no ''attack' in the OP. It was an interesting tidbit about a player who appears to be struggling a bit to find his place in the new Leaf lineup and really getting no help from his linemates in adjusting. Nobody called him a 'terrible' player, or anything of the sort.

Can you provide a link? I'm so curious as this is such a mind blowing stat and it just blows my mind that people can be complaining about Kadri.

Heaven forbid! Can't have anyone point anything slightly negative out now can we?

Nazem Kadri NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com

Beat you to it Mon Ami!!

 

[Pookie]

Didn't we have the why PDO and Corsi are 5v5 Stat debate like 5 years ago?

Well that would be more fun to redo than learning Kadri could have had more points if had scored on shots that missed the goal.

 

[TML11]

Kadri's points will pick up after Christmas. He is still finding his way with all the different line mates. it's a long season guys. kadri isn't going anywhere...Babcock loves him.

 

[PromisedLand]

Kadri has 8 goals and 16 points in 27 games so far; he could easily be around 21 points by now.....

So far:

• 0.6 ppg (82 game pace 49 points)
• 0.3 gpg (82 game pace 24 goals)

I expect both ppg and gpg to improve; and even if it stays status-quo and kadri ends up with 24 goals and 49 points; for a 4.5 AAV player; that's fair....

Pretty sure Naz is going to improve on this pace once he starts getting some puck luck like he did last game for the game winner

 

[diceman934]

They give out pamphlets in the Lobotomy Recovery Room.

Glad that you got your membership then.


At my weekly Mensa meeting we discussed being more sympathetic to individuals such as you Pookie. Now there there, everything will be just fine Pookie!

 

[Pookie]

Glad that you got your membership then.


At my weekly Mensa meeting we discussed being more sympathetic to individuals such as you Pookie. Now there there, everything will be just fine Pookie!

Hope your meetings go better next week

 

[ponder]

As others have noted, a good bit of that bad +/- is EN goals. With that being said, he’s had a poor start to the season. Has failed to capitalize on a lot of prime chances, and hasn’t had quite as much jump/hustle as usual. Hopefully just a temporary slump, and he’ll return to normal soon.

 

[Gary Nylund]

if you do not include this season (since it is still ongong and kadri could pick up pace); if half the posts he has hit (12) could have gone in; he would have 6 more goals and would have reasonable production

ES scoring - 28th overall
NHL.com - Stats

This is the really impressive one to me. This is a two year span, mostly playing with less than top 6 wingers, often matching up against the top lines across the NHL and still out-producing guys like Eichel, Aho, Benn, MacKinno, Hall, Scheifele, Point and Kessel. This is #1 centre production and absolutely incredible value for what he's being paid. Had a few shots bounced off the post and in instead of out this season, he'd again be on pace for 55-60 or so but because they bounced out, the same people who pounce every time he has a few weeks of below average production start talking about a decline. Hilarious stuff.

Heaven forbid! Can't have anyone point anything slightly negative out now can we?

Beat you to it Mon Ami!!

I have no idea what you're talking about. Beat me to what?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nazem Kadri is 9th in the league in PPG since the start of 2016-17 season which is better than Crosby, Seguin, Benn etc and a whole lot of other guys who play a lot more on the PP than Kadri. I am just glad our PP is clicking because he's one of the most dangerous players in the league on the PP and we're not using him at all because he's a decoy in the middle, not a pylon.
And 161st in PPA over that same time. Yes, he's an opportunistic scorer and a poor playmaker.

But can you please explain what the number of PPG has to do with why he is a poor defensive player?
By putting him there, teams have to cover him and that opens up a lane for Marner to pass to Matthews/Tavares.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Was looking at +/- and something doesn't really jive. Either I don't understand something or +/- is broken.
I've noticed for a while now that +/- doesn't square with my understanding.... in a lot of games.
Notice
Los Angeles Kings at Toronto Maple Leafs Box Score — October 15, 2018 | Hockey-Reference.com

How does the leafs win 4-1, with Lievo getting 1 assist while still registering a -1 in +/-?
Something is afoot

So he got an assist on a PP goal (which doesn't count towards +/-) and the only other goal he was on the ice for was the Kings' even strength goal, which does count. Simple.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I find this thread hilarious, particularly the people who respond to the question "why is he weak defensively at 5-on-5" with stats on how many goals he scores, and especially how many he scores on the PP.