Kadri, how is this even possible?

[Pi]

Is that really true? Seems to good to be true but if it is that's incredible!

It's true. He's only 5 away from being 3rd behind Ovechkin and Laine.

 

[Duke Silver]

Was looking at +/- and something doesn't really jive. Either I don't understand something or +/- is broken.
I've noticed for a while now that +/- doesn't square with my understanding.... in a lot of games.
Notice
Los Angeles Kings at Toronto Maple Leafs Box Score — October 15, 2018 | Hockey-Reference.com

How does the leafs win 4-1, with Lievo getting 1 assist while still registering a -1 in +/-?
Something is afoot

Only goals for and against at even strength count towards +/-. Leivo had a point at 5v4 (PP), but was on the ice for goal against at 5v5, so was credited with -1.

Edit: @Gallagbi has correctly pointed out that shorthanded goals for or against are also included. But those are pretty rare.

It's a dumb stat. Never put any stock in it.

Los Angeles Kings - Toronto Maple Leafs - October 15th, 2018

 

[Pookie]

These Komarov comparisons are beyond hilarious.

I know right?

Who would have though last year’s scapegoat would be outpointing the superhero at EV?

 

[Pookie]

Isolating a simple statistic to make your point just displays your limited knowledge of the game. Tavares has a PDO of 105.5 this year and has had over 100 for 5 previous seasons. I guess it is your position that he is playing poorly.

You brought up PDO... checking.... yep it was you.... as an isolated statistic to make your point.

Hope you have rearviews as you back peddle.

 

[Pookie]

Kadri's 5v5 PDO this year is 99.5 and his career PDO (prior to this season) was 100.5, so I'm not sure I understand how a sub-100 season would normalize things for him. If anything this shows his puck luck is due to improve.

To underscore this, at 5v5 this year his actual Goals For is 10, while his expected Goals For is 14.7. His actual Goals Against is 13 vs an expected 16.4. So he's been unlucky on offense, but lucky on defense. Overall, his actual GF% is 43.5 vs an expected 47.3, so there's room to improve here through simple normalization over time.

I'd tell you not to twist yourself in knots over it but.....

Seems he’s at 101.4 career.

Anywhoo this was brought up in a discussion of ifs and buts and candies and nuts. If he didn’t miss the net, he’d have scored.... you know the stuff that some love to defend with.

It then turned to if he wasn’t unlucky. Of course, NEVER a discussion as to whether his point totals would be lower if he wasn’t as lucky in some years.

No sense trying to get some of you to see sense.

Carry on.

We see a downward decline. If you don’t want to... that’s on you.

 

[1specter]

Seems he’s at 101.4 career.

Anywhoo this was brought up in a discussion of ifs and buts and candies and nuts. If he didn’t miss the net, he’d have scored.... you know the stuff that some love to defend with.

It then turned to if he wasn’t unlucky. Of course, NEVER a discussion as to whether his point totals would be lower if he wasn’t as lucky in some years.

No sense trying to get some of you to see sense.

Carry on.

We see a downward decline. If you don’t want to... that’s on you.

There’s no sense coming from you, never has been.

 

[moon111]

With Nylander back, I would put him with Kadri. Matthews simple doesn't need him. Kadri can put the puck in the net like JVR. We always had Bozak feeding JVR, with Kadri, it should be the same thing. Nylander would make a much more significant impact to the team's offensive production by boasting Kadri. Without someone like Nylander, that line is flat. Par Lindholm's assist rate is 1.12 per 60. Kadri's is 1.21 in his career. Players in this play-making skill range like Tim Connolly, Grabovski, Colin Greening might generate their offense, but not others. I just see the chance for maximum synergy is having someone set Kadri up.

 

[Gallagbi]

Only goals for and against at even strength count towards +/-. Leivo had a point at 5v4 (PP), but was on the ice for goal against at 5v5, so was credited with -1.

It's a dumb stat. Never put any stock in it.

Los Angeles Kings - Toronto Maple Leafs - October 15th, 2018

I'll update to an even or better man situation because Kadri has taken a few PP minuses due to SHG against.

 

[1specter]

Is that really true? Seems to good to be true but if it is that's incredible!

From 2016-2018 Kadri was the leader in PP G/60, and by a wide margin too.

 

[IPS]

I know right?

Who would have though last year’s scapegoat would be outpointing the superhero at EV?

The comparison is going to look incredibly stupid by the end of the season. So yeah, you go right ahead and run with it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Was looking at +/- and something doesn't really jive. Either I don't understand something or +/- is broken.
I've noticed for a while now that +/- doesn't square with my understanding.... in a lot of games.
Notice
Los Angeles Kings at Toronto Maple Leafs Box Score — October 15, 2018 | Hockey-Reference.com

How does the leafs win 4-1, with Lievo getting 1 assist while still registering a -1 in +/-?
Something is afoot

Because the point he got came on the PP you don't get a + for PP goals and he on the ice for the kings goal which was even strength

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Kadri is a notoriously streaky player. I think he has been especially unlucky this year. He is also the first to take a hit depth wise as soon as we have a full line up. As the season progresses and we run into more injuries he should see ample opportunity to put up points and fix that plus minus.

He is one of the last players I am worried about and a heart and soul guy in the playoffs.

 

[Duke Silver]

Seems he’s at 101.4 career.

Anywhoo this was brought up in a discussion of ifs and buts and candies and nuts. If he didn’t miss the net, he’d have scored.... you know the stuff that some love to defend with.

It then turned to if he wasn’t unlucky. Of course, NEVER a discussion as to whether his point totals would be lower if he wasn’t as lucky in some years.

No sense trying to get some of you to see sense.

Carry on.

We see a downward decline. If you don’t want to... that’s on you.

Where are you getting 101.4 career? Are you providing numbers without context again, Pookie?

 

[Notsince67]

Because the point he got came on the PP you don't get a + for PP goals and he on the ice for the kings goal which was even strength

Useless stat

 

[The Apologist]

Where are you getting 101.4 career? Are you providing numbers without context again, Pookie?

Nazem Kadri NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[diceman934]

Read the OP and tell me where I attacked Kadri, you won't find it because I didn't attack Kadri I'm just surprised we have a player with a negative +/- given how much this team scores as well as being 3rd in GAPG

You used a useless metric and your post was a negative so in most people’s minds that is an attack.

 

[Duke Silver]

Nazem Kadri NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com

It's better form to use 5v5. PP PDO is wildly inflationary.

My results are from Corsica (2010-2018, 5v5). I can't directly link to Kadri's specific stats.

 

[The Apologist]

It's better form to use 5v5. PP PDO is wildly inflationary.

My results are from Corsica (2010-2018, 5v5). I can't directly link to Kadri's specific stats.

Fair enough, just showing where he got the numbers

5v5 I have him at 100.5

 

[Gallagbi]

Didn't we have the why PDO and Corsi are 5v5 Stat debate like 5 years ago?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You used a useless metric and your post was a negative so in most people’s minds that is an attack.

Then those people don't know what an attack is because I never attacked Naz, not even close, the only player I have attacked is Leivo and that's because for the most part he does nothing and on the rare instance where he does do something he then does nothing for another 3 weeks

 

[diceman934]

Was looking at +/- and something doesn't really jive. Either I don't understand something or +/- is broken.
I've noticed for a while now that +/- doesn't square with my understanding.... in a lot of games.
Notice
Los Angeles Kings at Toronto Maple Leafs Box Score — October 15, 2018 | Hockey-Reference.com

How does the leafs win 4-1, with Lievo getting 1 assist while still registering a -1 in +/-?
Something is afoot

He got the assist on the PP

 

[diceman934]

Then those people don't know what an attack is because I never attacked Naz, not even, the only player I have attacked is Leivo and that's because for the most part he does nothing and on the rare instance where he does do something he then does nothing for another 3 weeks

You attacked him period questioning him with a useless team stat that lacks context.

Naz leads our Center is D zone starts. Plays against top lines and is also on the ice late in games when we are leading. Look at the leagues top minus players you will see Malkin is a minus 8 he must be a horrible center as well.

 

[The Apologist]

Then those people don't know what an attack is because I never attacked Naz, not even, the only player I have attacked is Leivo and that's because for the most part he does nothing and on the rare instance where he does do something he then does nothing for another 3 weeks

Nevermind the fan club. To certain members of these boards any negative stat pointed in Naz's direction is an attack.
It is a rather interesting stat that he's one of only two on the entire team. Not sure Id put too much stock in +/- by itself.

 

[Klinton]

You do realize that he plays against top lines almost every night and doesn’t have the best line mates.

 

[diceman934]

Nevermind the fan club. To certain members of these boards any negative stat pointed in Naz's direction is an attack.
It is a rather interesting stat that he's one of only two on the entire team. Not sure Id put too much stock in +/- by itself.

Where can you join this fan club?