Kadri Discussion Thread - Back from suspension

[Pookie]

I'm sorry, but was that whole post just to inform us that Kadri was scoring at an unsustainable rate in the lockout season? You're a couple of years late in reporting that news, I'm afraid.

No actually. The point was to add food for thought to the assertion that his possession numbers were going to be a better predictor of success than a player like Wellwood.

I know reading isn't exactly a well practiced skill in parts of this forum but that was the point. Comparing defensive numbers to all Leaf Centers over the last 12-13 seasons.

Which should help the fan club since Kadri's possession numbers, a so called better predictor of success, are much better than Sundin's. You know, assuming that predictor tag is true and we ignore common sense.

PDO was just the icing on the cake. Luckiest season of any Leaf since the numbers have been recorded.

If that's all you take from it, that's good.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

So when the subjective doesn't work, we go back to some ratio and add a blanket statement that it is a better predictor than any other measure of success... even better than the actual success (points)?

Let's play that game. Which possession efficiency would you care to measure? War on Ice goes back to 2002.

Amonst Leaf Centers with more than 100 games:

CF%
Wellwood - 52.92

(... just a second, I have to scroll to the second page, past Alyn McCauley, Dominique Moore, Mikail Grabovoski, Mats Sundin, Nik Antropov, Robert Reichel, Tom Fitzgerald, and the Leafs best with more than 100 games John Pohl (wonder how that prediction worked out)?

Kadri - 47.77

Let's try CF % Rel

Probably aren't going to use that stat as that doesn't look too good. Maybe CF % Rel?

That's a lot better for Kadri.

Kadri - 3.91
Wellwood - 3.19

Is that statistically sigificant? I guess if it is in favour of Kadri it is statistically significant. Worth noting that Grabovski was at 4.77. He went on to greatness didn't he?

And predictor you say? I'll just highlight that the following players:

Dominique Moore, John Pohl, Nik Antropov, Matt Stajan and our two Mr. Wellwood and Mr Kadri....

....all had much higher ratings than Mats Sundin who clocked in on page 2 with a .79. I guess Sundin didn't deserve that big contract eh? Pretty useless future potential.

Is Kadri full of "Puck Luck" - A word about Outliers

You know, sometimes you have to speak the language to communicate and I feel good that we are communicating here.

I'd like to go back to something from a few pages back. "Puck Luck." I personally think it's a silly concept, to try to measure luck. Someone pointed out that it simply factors out random events. Allows you to regress to the mean so to speak. Certainly a plausible theory when it comes to explaining how the Leafs started so well but then plummet, just playing above the mean?

Well guess who, since 2002, has the highest PDO rating for any given season (with more than 10 games)?

Yep. Kadri fan club members might not want to keep reading further.

Kadri. In his 48 game, 34 point season. 108.17

Wellwood's luckiest season by the way had him at 101.55

Kadri experienced by far the luckiest season of any Leaf Center over the last 12-13 years.

PDO Part 2

I thought maybe this is unfair. I mean I just ran the data vs Centers. Let's try ALL PLAYERS since 2002, with more than 20 games.

Yep. There you go. It's still Kadri. Same season. Same 108.17.

Luckiest season, of any Leaf player, playing any position, over the last 12-13 seasons.

Can we safely call this a lucky, outlier season now? Or do we need to keep referring to it as part of his potential?

I'm going to call him really lucky that year and I think we should all do that to be consistent. I assume that the stats validate my conclusion...?

First off, your "luckiest season" stat is wrong.

The following players have all put up a greater than 108.17 PDO, while playing 20 games in a season. :

Thomas Vanek
Eric Wellwood
Scott Hartnell
Derek Roy
Jason Krog

Highest ever is actually Lupul at 110.74, but he did that in 16 games.

I've already conceded that Wellwood is a very skilled player. There's not much that one could complain about regarding his point totals, or general offensive ability.

Wellwood lacks in the defensive and physical aspects of the game. That was always his weakness, and that's why his NHL career ended at 29.

I'll admit I was wrong to harp on possession specifically. But my overall point stands.

Edit: I saw further down that you referred back to only Leaf players. I got confused when you referred to "ALL PLAYERS". So, yes, Kadri had the highest PDO of any Leaf. Although if you're trying to gauge offensive impact, on ice shooting % would be a better barometer.

Nonetheless, I don't see the use in pointing out that Kadri's lockout year was unsustainable. Even his biggest supporters don't see him as a point per game player.

 

[leafs in five]

PDO was just the icing on the cake. Luckiest season of any Leaf since the numbers have been recorded.

If that's all you take from it, that's good.

what if it was just the most confident season of any Leaf since numbers have been recorded?

 

[Pookie]

First off, your "luckiest season" stat is wrong.

The following players have all put up a greater than 108.17 PDO, while playing 20 games in a season. :

Thomas Vanek
Eric Wellwood
Scott Hartnell
Derek Roy
Jason Krog

Your point is well made.

I specifically only looked at Leaf players though and noted that in presenting the numbers.

As for the rest, I too liked Wellwood. His story is one of caution though and is the challenge for GMs in this era of the lowering of the UFA age limit.

You have to make a call on players very early on. Long term or short term. Blip or trend.

We simply don't know. As a business leader, I certainly appreciate the value of numbers. Because Boards usually like something other than a gut feel when investing money. There is an element of "science" to it even if there really isn't much actual science behind it. It just feels better.

But the truth is, the numbers generally aren't that accurate at predicting either. The Freakanomics authors highlight that experts tend to do no better than chance at predicting long term trends from stocks to politics to sports. Yet they sound authoritative.

I get why people cling to stats to try to explain things. I even see value in considering them. But in the end, future predicting is tough business and to take stats as gospel really sets up decision makers to look bad over the long term.

It is a fun debate though isn't it?

 

[Pookie]

what if it was just the most confident season of any Leaf since numbers have been recorded?

Let's not debate the merits of PDO.

Regressing to the mean is a silly statement as far as I am concerned. Particularly since we are talking about players who have careers that follow a bell curve in terms of production.

Rookie season will be lower than their peak and then they will decline over time.

What is someone's "average" production then? It's a moving target and saying there is one discounts work ethic and development and all the other variables that go into a player's career.

But hey, if PDO fans want to conclude he experienced the luckiest Leaf season in 12-13 years, I am not going to rain on that parade now am I?

 

[Snow Dog]

Let's not debate the merits of PDO.

Regressing to the mean is a silly statement as far as I am concerned. Particularly since we are talking about players who have careers that follow a bell curve in terms of production.

Rookie season will be lower than their peak and then they will decline over time.

What is someone's "average" production then? It's a moving target and saying there is one discounts work ethic and development and all the other variables that go into a player's career.

But hey, if PDO fans want to conclude he experienced the luckiest Leaf season in 12-13 years, I am not going to rain on that parade now am I?

Make that a lucky 30 games,#43's production dropped off significantly towards the end of that season.A 48 game season at that.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Your point is well made.

I specifically only looked at Leaf players though and noted that in presenting the numbers.

As for the rest, I too liked Wellwood. His story is one of caution though and is the challenge for GMs in this era of the lowering of the UFA age limit.

You have to make a call on players very early on. Long term or short term. Blip or trend.

We simply don't know. As a business leader, I certainly appreciate the value of numbers. Because Boards usually like something other than a gut feel when investing money. There is an element of "science" to it even if there really isn't much actual science behind it. It just feels better.

But the truth is, the numbers generally aren't that accurate at predicting either. The Freakanomics authors highlight that experts tend to do no better than chance at predicting long term trends from stocks to politics to sports. Yet they sound authoritative.

I get why people cling to stats to try to explain things. I even see value in considering them. But in the end, future predicting is tough business and to take stats as gospel really sets up decision makers to look bad over the long term.

It is a fun debate though isn't it?

I'd definitely say so. Great points, overall.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Regressing to the mean is a silly statement as far as I am concerned. Particularly since we are talking about players who have careers that follow a bell curve in terms of production.

Um, are you suggesting that talking about regression to the mean of a Gaussian is silly? You know that bell curves have a fixed mean by definition, right?

I'm still not sure why you're fighting against this straw man so hard. Who are these imaginary people who expected Kadri to maintain a 16% sh% and 108% PDO over his whole career?

 

[leafs in five]

"PDO fans"

 

[Falon]

First off, I want to thank all of you folks for this scintillating commentary. I get discouraged sometimes when I come to this forum and find base rhetoric and blatant homerism.

In 2013, Nazem Kadri took the team and fans by storm. Many fans were aware of him and his skill set, but he seemed to come into his own right at that moment. He was the superstar everyone was waiting for, and the Leafs made the playoffs. When he couldn't reproduce the results, many fans were left wondering why, while others referred to the "sophomore slump". The truth is though, that is not what happened. Kadri was revealed to be a very good center, but not a star. His offensive explosion in 2013 was due to three simple factors. 1) He has very good offensive skills and instincts. 2) He had taken the next step in his development after two and a half years of work with the Marlies. 3) Most importantly, he had a distinct advantage over almost every other player in the league. That advantage was that he had been playing regularly, North American style hockey, and was in full game mode and shape when the 2013 season started. It took almost the entire season, for the rest of the league to get where he was when they started the 2013 season. That is why his production trailed off; he wasn't getting worse, every other player was getting better.

2014 saw him get 2nd line duty and struggle defensively due to a swelled head (our fault really) and a withdrawal of his defensive awareness, the lack of defensive acumen of his wingers (Raymond and Lupul, which is why the 2nd line looked so much better when Kulemin was there, yet struggled to score.) and everyone starting on par when the season began. Last season was the best thing that could have happened to Kadri as he learned to get back his defensive awareness.

This season has shown an improvement in Kadri's defensive game, and his skill level as a #2 center without much offensive wing support. While I am not as statistically skilled as many of you are, the issue with Nazem Kadri and his lack of inclusion on the top line makes sense. The expectation amongst any top 6 forward is that they will produce offensively, and play defensively as well. The problem with Kadri isn't his linemates, they did all they could. The problem is the quality of players within the Leaf team. If you put Kadri on the 1st line, there would be no second line, as he represents the only consistent threat to score. When teams play the second line, they play Kadri. I'm sure at this point, many of you are thinking, "what about Lupul?". I feel for this guy because I really do think he has a desire to win and loves being a Leaf. He can be very good when healthy, but ONLY if he has a stretch of consistent health. His season was derailed early, and he almost got back on track because he was back after a month, but then fell again to injury. Also, he had his best success as a LW, and has not been put back there for a full season since. Since the departure of Clark MacArthur, the Leafs have not had a legitimate 2nd line left wing or 6 top 6 forwards. His release remains one of Nonis's biggest mistakes, and was entirely Carlyle's fault. He broke out with the Leafs, he loved being a Leaf, Burke lucked out and found a top 6 player where no one thought one existed. Mason Raymond wasn't a legitimate one, neither was Clarkson or Santorelli, as is indicated by their performance since.

Until Toronto puts Kadri with linemates that are comparable in skill, Kadri's offensive production will continue to hover around 40-50 points. What infuriates me the most is how this young man has been treated by the Leaf organization. He may be a jerk, abrasive and cocky, which puts off some of his teammates. That is no reason to throw him under the bus as was publicly done this season. I said it when Kadri was drafted, and I will say it again, Kadri is a poor man's Jeremy Roenick. He is a skilled agitator, has an edge to his game and the mouth to go with it. The closest comparable player would be Brad Marchand. A star he is not, and never will be. If he played on the first line, he would probably get 60+ points, but Kessel would not be happy due to him having to work harder because Kadri is not as good at faceoffs, meaning that there would be more battling for the puck and puck retrieval. Also, the second line under Bozak would be horrible defensively without 2 strong defensive wingers. JVR is good defensively, but Lupul is about as good as Bozak. Simply put, it wouldn't work and didn't work, as Carlyle tried it several games.

The explanation for the Toronto collapse of the past two seasons is based on the offensive and defensive acumen of the top 6 forward group, the trials and tribulations of the Leaf defense core and exhausted goal tending as a result. That is why the core is flawed, and why the rebuild is necessary. Kadri needs to continue to work and improve and learn, but he is NOT the problem on Toronto that needs to be fixed.

 

[Pookie]

Um, are you suggesting that talking about regression to the mean of a Gaussian is silly? You know that bell curves have a fixed mean by definition, right?

They do. But bell curves that are still in progress have adjusting means.

A player who is approaching their peak years would find their "average" production to be on the upside. No?

 

[Purity*]

"Using linemates as an excuse for lack of production!"


FFS, his linemates in this last stretch of the season have been Panik and Lindstrom. FOURTH LINERS. His 2 best linemates this season have been THIRD LINERS (Winnik and Santa). Winnik has 2 goals in 21 games playing for Pittsburgh and Santa is a healthy scratch for Nashville.

Once again, this year has been a complete carousel of wingers for Kadri with zero opportunity whatsoever to build any chemistry with anyone. A combination of : Santa, Winnik, Komarov, Panik, Clarkson, Lindstrom, Lupul, Kozun. You god damn rights this has very real effects on a player's production. in b4 "well maybe Kadri's hard to play with RAH RAH RAH RAH" OH YEAH I'm sure that's why Winnik, Santa and Komarov played some of the most productive hockey of their careers on a line with Kadri YEAH? Zero evidence whatsoever to back that up and tons of evidence to prove the opposite. Kadri makes players around him better, end of story.

I hope to god that management can actually find him some consistent linemates some time and finally stop ****ing him around. I'm sure he thinks it would be nice to be stapled to JVR/Kessel no matter what.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

"Using linemates as an excuse for lack of production!"


FFS, his linemates in this last stretch of the season have been Panik and Lindstrom. FOURTH LINERS. His 2 best linemates this season have been THIRD LINERS (Winnik and Santa). Winnik has 2 goals in 21 games playing for Pittsburgh and Santa is a healthy scratch for Nashville.

Once again, this year has been a complete carousel of wingers for Kadri with zero opportunity whatsoever to build any chemistry with anyone. A combination of : Santa, Winnik, Komarov, Panik, Clarkson, Lindstrom, Lupul, Kozun. You god damn rights this has very real effects on a player's production. in b4 "well maybe Kadri's hard to play with RAH RAH RAH RAH" OH YEAH I'm sure that's why Winnik, Santa and Komarov played some of the most productive hockey of their careers on a line with Kadri YEAH? Zero evidence whatsoever to back that up and tons of evidence to prove the opposite. Kadri makes players around him better, end of story.

I hope to god that management can actually find him some consistent linemates some time and finally stop ****ing him around. I'm sure he thinks it would be nice to be stapled to JVR/Kessel no matter what.

I don't think Kadri will ever have consistent line mates.

 

[Pookie]

I don't think Kadri will ever have consistent line mates.

Why?

 

[Snow Dog]

"Using linemates as an excuse for lack of production!"


FFS, his linemates in this last stretch of the season have been Panik and Lindstrom. FOURTH LINERS. His 2 best linemates this season have been THIRD LINERS (Winnik and Santa). Winnik has 2 goals in 21 games playing for Pittsburgh and Santa is a healthy scratch for Nashville.

Once again, this year has been a complete carousel of wingers for Kadri with zero opportunity whatsoever to build any chemistry with anyone. A combination of : Santa, Winnik, Komarov, Panik, Clarkson, Lindstrom, Lupul, Kozun. You god damn rights this has very real effects on a player's production. in b4 "well maybe Kadri's hard to play with RAH RAH RAH RAH" OH YEAH I'm sure that's why Winnik, Santa and Komarov played some of the most productive hockey of their careers on a line with Kadri YEAH? Zero evidence whatsoever to back that up and tons of evidence to prove the opposite. Kadri makes players around him better, end of story.

I hope to god that management can actually find him some consistent linemates some time and finally stop ****ing him around. I'm sure he thinks it would be nice to be stapled to JVR/Kessel no matter what.

Put him with Kessel and JVR and his offence would surely get better but his defense would suffer.He might not have been playing with offensively gifted players,but the ones he has played with helped him with his defensive game.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Put him with Kessel and JVR and his offence would surely get better but his defense would suffer.He might not have been playing with offensively gifted players,but the ones he has played with helped him with his defensive game.

I'm excited to see him with JVR and a competent two-way RW. Not sure who that player is yet, but I think it could be interesting.

Next year, Kadri should finally get the ice-time he has long-deserved. We'll see what he does with it.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Why?

Truth be told, if the past is any indication of the future, he's probably right. Lol

I think it has stunted his development a bit. It's hard to constantly keep changing linemates. You can't always play with the same teammates, but you have to admit, the carousel of linemates that he has had in his time here is ridiculous, no?

 

[Bullseye]

I don't think Kadri will ever have consistent line mates.

Well if they don't trade him on draft day he will be negotiating a new contract and will be expected to lead next year's Tank on the 1st line I would think.

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

First off, I want to thank all of you folks for this scintillating commentary. I get discouraged sometimes when I come to this forum and find base rhetoric and blatant homerism.

In 2013, Nazem Kadri took the team and fans by storm. Many fans were aware of him and his skill set, but he seemed to come into his own right at that moment. He was the superstar everyone was waiting for, and the Leafs made the playoffs. When he couldn't reproduce the results, many fans were left wondering why, while others referred to the "sophomore slump". The truth is though, that is not what happened. Kadri was revealed to be a very good center, but not a star. His offensive explosion in 2013 was due to three simple factors. 1) He has very good offensive skills and instincts. 2) He had taken the next step in his development after two and a half years of work with the Marlies. 3) Most importantly, he had a distinct advantage over almost every other player in the league. That advantage was that he had been playing regularly, North American style hockey, and was in full game mode and shape when the 2013 season started. It took almost the entire season, for the rest of the league to get where he was when they started the 2013 season. That is why his production trailed off; he wasn't getting worse, every other player was getting better.

2014 saw him get 2nd line duty and struggle defensively due to a swelled head (our fault really) and a withdrawal of his defensive awareness, the lack of defensive acumen of his wingers (Raymond and Lupul, which is why the 2nd line looked so much better when Kulemin was there, yet struggled to score.) and everyone starting on par when the season began. Last season was the best thing that could have happened to Kadri as he learned to get back his defensive awareness.

This season has shown an improvement in Kadri's defensive game, and his skill level as a #2 center without much offensive wing support. While I am not as statistically skilled as many of you are, the issue with Nazem Kadri and his lack of inclusion on the top line makes sense. The expectation amongst any top 6 forward is that they will produce offensively, and play defensively as well. The problem with Kadri isn't his linemates, they did all they could. The problem is the quality of players within the Leaf team. If you put Kadri on the 1st line, there would be no second line, as he represents the only consistent threat to score. When teams play the second line, they play Kadri. I'm sure at this point, many of you are thinking, "what about Lupul?". I feel for this guy because I really do think he has a desire to win and loves being a Leaf. He can be very good when healthy, but ONLY if he has a stretch of consistent health. His season was derailed early, and he almost got back on track because he was back after a month, but then fell again to injury. Also, he had his best success as a LW, and has not been put back there for a full season since. Since the departure of Clark MacArthur, the Leafs have not had a legitimate 2nd line left wing or 6 top 6 forwards. His release remains one of Nonis's biggest mistakes, and was entirely Carlyle's fault. He broke out with the Leafs, he loved being a Leaf, Burke lucked out and found a top 6 player where no one thought one existed. Mason Raymond wasn't a legitimate one, neither was Clarkson or Santorelli, as is indicated by their performance since.

Until Toronto puts Kadri with linemates that are comparable in skill, Kadri's offensive production will continue to hover around 40-50 points. What infuriates me the most is how this young man has been treated by the Leaf organization. He may be a jerk, abrasive and cocky, which puts off some of his teammates. That is no reason to throw him under the bus as was publicly done this season. I said it when Kadri was drafted, and I will say it again, Kadri is a poor man's Jeremy Roenick. He is a skilled agitator, has an edge to his game and the mouth to go with it. The closest comparable player would be Brad Marchand. A star he is not, and never will be. If he played on the first line, he would probably get 60+ points, but Kessel would not be happy due to him having to work harder because Kadri is not as good at faceoffs, meaning that there would be more battling for the puck and puck retrieval. Also, the second line under Bozak would be horrible defensively without 2 strong defensive wingers. JVR is good defensively, but Lupul is about as good as Bozak. Simply put, it wouldn't work and didn't work, as Carlyle tried it several games.

The explanation for the Toronto collapse of the past two seasons is based on the offensive and defensive acumen of the top 6 forward group, the trials and tribulations of the Leaf defense core and exhausted goal tending as a result. That is why the core is flawed, and why the rebuild is necessary. Kadri needs to continue to work and improve and learn, but he is NOT the problem on Toronto that needs to be fixed.

Excellent post, I totally agree.

 

[Pookie]

Truth be told, if the past is any indication of the future, he's probably right. Lol

I think it has stunted his development a bit. It's hard to constantly keep changing linemates. You can't always play with the same teammates, but you have to admit, the carousel of linemates that he has had in his time here is ridiculous, no?

True. Though the carousel of bottom 6 (or even bottom 9) has been bad throughout the years.

Leafs tinker with those spots thinking it will impact change without ever looking at the core. Well, they looked at it... extended it... and are now looking to trade it a few months later.

Once we move who we need to move, stability will be better for everyone.

 

[Snow Dog]

hope he comes back flying next season.I wasn't impressed this one.

 

[Optimist]

First off, I want to thank all of you folks for this scintillating commentary. I get discouraged sometimes when I come to this forum and find base rhetoric and blatant homerism.

In 2013, Nazem Kadri took the team and fans by storm. Many fans were aware of him and his skill set, but he seemed to come into his own right at that moment. He was the superstar everyone was waiting for, and the Leafs made the playoffs. When he couldn't reproduce the results, many fans were left wondering why, while others referred to the "sophomore slump". The truth is though, that is not what happened. Kadri was revealed to be a very good center, but not a star. His offensive explosion in 2013 was due to three simple factors. 1) He has very good offensive skills and instincts. 2) He had taken the next step in his development after two and a half years of work with the Marlies. 3) Most importantly, he had a distinct advantage over almost every other player in the league. That advantage was that he had been playing regularly, North American style hockey, and was in full game mode and shape when the 2013 season started. It took almost the entire season, for the rest of the league to get where he was when they started the 2013 season. That is why his production trailed off; he wasn't getting worse, every other player was getting better.

2014 saw him get 2nd line duty and struggle defensively due to a swelled head (our fault really) and a withdrawal of his defensive awareness, the lack of defensive acumen of his wingers (Raymond and Lupul, which is why the 2nd line looked so much better when Kulemin was there, yet struggled to score.) and everyone starting on par when the season began. Last season was the best thing that could have happened to Kadri as he learned to get back his defensive awareness.

This season has shown an improvement in Kadri's defensive game, and his skill level as a #2 center without much offensive wing support. While I am not as statistically skilled as many of you are, the issue with Nazem Kadri and his lack of inclusion on the top line makes sense. The expectation amongst any top 6 forward is that they will produce offensively, and play defensively as well. The problem with Kadri isn't his linemates, they did all they could. The problem is the quality of players within the Leaf team. If you put Kadri on the 1st line, there would be no second line, as he represents the only consistent threat to score. When teams play the second line, they play Kadri. I'm sure at this point, many of you are thinking, "what about Lupul?". I feel for this guy because I really do think he has a desire to win and loves being a Leaf. He can be very good when healthy, but ONLY if he has a stretch of consistent health. His season was derailed early, and he almost got back on track because he was back after a month, but then fell again to injury. Also, he had his best success as a LW, and has not been put back there for a full season since. Since the departure of Clark MacArthur, the Leafs have not had a legitimate 2nd line left wing or 6 top 6 forwards. His release remains one of Nonis's biggest mistakes, and was entirely Carlyle's fault. He broke out with the Leafs, he loved being a Leaf, Burke lucked out and found a top 6 player where no one thought one existed. Mason Raymond wasn't a legitimate one, neither was Clarkson or Santorelli, as is indicated by their performance since.

Until Toronto puts Kadri with linemates that are comparable in skill, Kadri's offensive production will continue to hover around 40-50 points. What infuriates me the most is how this young man has been treated by the Leaf organization. He may be a jerk, abrasive and cocky, which puts off some of his teammates. That is no reason to throw him under the bus as was publicly done this season. I said it when Kadri was drafted, and I will say it again, Kadri is a poor man's Jeremy Roenick. He is a skilled agitator, has an edge to his game and the mouth to go with it. The closest comparable player would be Brad Marchand. A star he is not, and never will be. If he played on the first line, he would probably get 60+ points, but Kessel would not be happy due to him having to work harder because Kadri is not as good at faceoffs, meaning that there would be more battling for the puck and puck retrieval. Also, the second line under Bozak would be horrible defensively without 2 strong defensive wingers. JVR is good defensively, but Lupul is about as good as Bozak. Simply put, it wouldn't work and didn't work, as Carlyle tried it several games.

The explanation for the Toronto collapse of the past two seasons is based on the offensive and defensive acumen of the top 6 forward group, the trials and tribulations of the Leaf defense core and exhausted goal tending as a result. That is why the core is flawed, and why the rebuild is necessary. Kadri needs to continue to work and improve and learn, but he is NOT the problem on Toronto that needs to be fixed.

Save your novel for another time. Kadri is the next Leafs cancer. He can't be gone soon enough.

 

[ULF_55]

Glenn Healy didn't give much credit to Kadri tonight.

When asked about a long term contract, what was it he said? "Not a chance!"

Talk about a disaster season for Kadri, a step back offensively, called to the carpet by management, suspended again by the league and continues to struggle at the dot.

Good thing for Leafs fans, he should be signing a reasonable contract and get another chance to prove himself without Leafs getting stuck with a bad contract.

 

[Erdinger]

Make that a lucky 30 games,#43's production dropped off significantly towards the end of that season.A 48 game season at that.

He peaked the night of the Habs slaughter when Cherry anointed him the new Gilmour. He's never been the same since that night

 

[ITM]

Glenn Healy didn't give much credit to Kadri tonight.

When asked about a long term contract, what was it he said? "Not a chance!"

Talk about a disaster season for Kadri, a step back offensively, called to the carpet by management, suspended again by the league and continues to struggle at the dot.

Good thing for Leafs fans, he should be signing a reasonable contract and get another chance to prove himself without Leafs getting stuck with a bad contract.

Hopefully.