Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[WojtekWolski86]

Only as significant as plus/minus is.

Hopefully benching Zibs/CK instantly leads to KK showing 5 years of improved skating

Strange how other young guys weren't benched since age is the only reason KK is benched.

Plus minus is overrated yet in the context of the eye test the Cuylle Chytil Kaako line actually spend time in the other teams zone and went over a month without giving up a goal. Meanwhile every replay the last 6 weeks had Miller Trouba Lindgren Mika and Kreider on the ice for an ugly goal against.

What about Jones eating scratches when he was playing well?

 

[Ruggs225]

Because it's mid-season and he's an unrestricted free agent.

There are, presumably, going to be higher scoring rentals available at the deadline for competing teams. If Kakko had a longer term contract at this price, I do think he'd fetch a decent return right now.

But you don't trade a big asset for a rental like Kakko, especially this early. It makes no sense.

You can sign him in the offseason without giving up anything.

Kakkor will be an RFA this offseason. Not a UFA, so any team trading for him would have him for at least next year as well.

I do not want to be a mean guy bashing KK. I just did not like he pointing fingers at his teammates. I hope you are all right about him. I want him to be the 30 goal-30 assist guy some one this board have said he could become. That would help the Rangers and make me very happy.

I dont know. This group of vets needs to be called out by somebody. Actually respect him more for calling them out

 

[NickyFotiu]

Mika Zibanejad is on pace for 11 even strength goals as well.

He also wasnt happy when his minutes were reduced.

He wasnt healthy scratched though.

If Kakko says nothing and just eats it hes weak, if he says something hes a brat. Cant win

Once again I have no issue with people saying Zibs has played horribly. Zibs could easily be scratched for his poor play. If Zibs plays horribly does that make my play better?

 

[LOFIN]

I do not want to be a mean guy bashing KK. I just did not like he pointing fingers at his teammates.

In general, sure. In his situation, I don't blame him. And I don't think he's just speaking for himself here. I've got a feeling the other young guys feel they are getting screwed over by vets who are clearly mailing it in because they are pissed about their two buddies Goodrow and Trouba chased out of the organization. Meanwhile the "kids" bust their asses off, and just like in the previous years they get absolutely zero rewards for doing so.

Kakko has given pretty mild comments previously when he was scratched, while one can argue those were not warranted either. It's obvious that he knows him and the Rangers are finally moving towards a divorce, and there's no need to hold back. Not to make the coach, or his teammates happy.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Plus minus is overrated yet in the context of the eye test the Cuylle Chytil Kaako line actually spend time in the other teams zone and went over a month without giving up a goal. Meanwhile every replay the last 6 weeks had Miller Trouba Lindgren Mika and Kreider on the ice for an ugly goal against.

What about Jones eating scratches when he was playing well?

I have not defended Miller, Trouba, Lindy, Mike or CK in this thread. All have played badly enough to have a cut in ice time or be benched as well.

Kakkor will be an RFA this offseason. Not a UFA, so any team trading for him would have him for at least next year as well.


I dont know. This group of vets needs to be called out by somebody. Actually respect him more for calling them out

If a player has an issue with his teammates he should speak to them face to face in the locker room imo. I think KK is a good guy but that was not a good moment in time imo.

 

[Harbour Dog]

In general, sure. In his situation, I don't blame him. And I don't think he's just speaking for himself here. I've got a feeling the other young guys feel they are getting screwed over by vets who are clearly mailing it in because they are pissed about their two buddies Goodrow and Trouba chased out of the organization. Meanwhile the "kids" bust their asses off, and just like in the previous years they get absolutely zero rewards for doing so.

I think this is more true than ever. I only seen the second period of the Blues game, but watching the highlights afterward, the way that Cuylle, Chytil, and Laf celebrated that 3-2 goal was like, "WE f***ing did it. We can do it. We can push this team."

Then we threw Zib and Kreider out for the 6v5 and Cuylle and Chytil had to watch from the bench.

The kids are ready, and they're willing. It's time to give up the ghost when it comes to Kreider and Zibanejad at this point. It's f***ing nearly 2025, Kreider and Zib suck, and we STILL won't put Laf on PP1. Like, come on.

 

[Ruggs225]

If a player has an issue with his teammates he should speak to them face to face in the locker room imo. I think KK is a good guy but that was not a good moment in time imo.

I take it as more of an issue with the coach than his teammates. He didnt say names, he just doesnt get why he is always singled put when others arent playing well and still playing.

To me that is calling out the coach.

 

[NickyFotiu]

In general, sure. In his situation, I don't blame him. And I don't think he's just speaking for himself here. I've got a feeling the other young guys feel they are getting screwed over by vets who are clearly mailing it in because they are pissed about their two buddies Goodrow and Trouba chased out of the organization. Meanwhile the "kids" bust their asses off, and just like in the previous years they get absolutely zero rewards for doing so.

Kakko has given pretty mild comments previously when he was scratched, while one can argue those were not warranted either. It's obvious that he knows him and the Rangers are finally moving towards a divorce, and there's no need to hold back. Not to make the coach, or his teammates happy.

Were Zibs and CK to blame for KK last season?

Why hasn't Cuyle been benched?

Can Trouba, Lindy and KAM all be playing poorly at the same times? If so why can't Zibs, CK and KK also all have played poorly? Why does it have to be an either or situation? Why can't all 3 forwards be deserving of a benching, line demotion or minutes reduction?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I take it as more of an issue with the coach than his teammates. He didnt say names, he just doesnt get why he is always singled put when others arent playing well and still playing.

To me that is calling out the coach.

I understand but his (older) teammates caught the stray.

With that said how many coaches has KK had?

How many have benched him?

The benching is not a death sentence. All it is saying is we need you to play better. Don't we all want KK to play better? CK was benched. JT Miller was benched. Zooks was benched. Lafi was benched. They took it like men and came back to improve their games.

 

[DevilDog99]

Shame on coach for benching KK when he has been giving Zibs PP1 time.

 

[UnSandvich]

I understand but his (older) teammates caught the stray.

With that said how many coaches has KK had?

How many have benched him?

The benching is not a death sentence. All it is saying is we need you to play better. Don't we all want KK to play better? CK was benched. JT Miller was benched. Zooks was benched. Lafi was benched. They took it like men and came back to improve their games.

You act like Kakko can decide "Hey I'm not good enough" and magically pull an extra 20 points out of his ass. It doesn't work like that my guy.

Also, if every player on our team finished with Kakko's current GoalsFor%, it would legitimately be the second highest GF% of all time. Behind only the 76-77 Habs (scored 387 while allowing only 171)

 

[Ruggs225]

I understand but his (older) teammates caught the stray.

With that said how many coaches has KK had?

How many have benched him?

The benching is not a death sentence. All it is saying is we need you to play better. Don't we all want KK to play better? CK was benched. JT Miller was benched. Zooks was benched. Lafi was benched. They took it like men and came back to improve their games.

Fair enough, but i think he has just had it. If kreider, lindgren, or zibs were scratched a game as well i doubt he would bitch about his scratching.

But the fact is Lav has fostered this atmosphere by continuously rewarding their bad play with ice time in key situations. Even last night though kreider and Zibs had less ice time, they were right there in the key moments, and havent lost Pp time.

That doesnt sit well with Kakko, and frankly, shouldn't sit well with anyone in the room.

kk hasnt dont anything worthy of being scratched, though he really hasnt done anything notably great as of late either to warrant more time.

Lav preached accountability yet has shown no accountability with the players who are playing the worst on the team. That needs to stop. So i dont mind Kakko calling out his coach, even if it might ruffle some vet feathers. They need their feathers ruffled.

 

[SeanAveryTheGreatOne]

+/- is a very useful stat. him being +10 and mika being -15 when our team is in freefall tells a very important story, and it's cope to try to say otherwise.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You act like Kakko can decide "Hey I'm not good enough" and magically pull an extra 20 points out of his ass. It doesn't work like that my guy.

Also, if every player on our team finished with Kakko's current GoalsFor%, it would legitimately be the second highest GF% of all time. Behind only the 76-77 Habs (scored 387 while allowing only 171)

I do not know about magic but the only one that can make KK be the 30-30 guy some on this board have said he can be is KK. His coaches can not do it for him. Hie teammates can not do it for him. He will have to put in the work to improve his skills.

 

[CLW]

Fair enough, but i think he has just had it. If kreider, lindgren, or zibs were scratched a game as well i doubt he would bitch about his scratching.

But the fact is Lav has fostered this atmosphere by continuously rewarding their bad play with ice time in key situations. Even last night though kreider and Zibs had less ice time, they were right there in the key moments, and havent lost Pp time.

That doesnt sit well with Kakko, and frankly, shouldn't sit well with anyone in the room.

kk hasnt dont anything worthy of being scratched, though he really hasnt done anything notably great as of late either to warrant more time.

Lav preached accountability yet has shown no accountability with the players who are playing the worst on the team. That needs to stop. So i dont mind Kakko calling out his coach, even if it might ruffle some vet feathers. They need their feathers ruffled.

Lavi is full of shit. Everybody knows it. Drury is full of shit. Everybody knows it. This situation won't be fixed by trading some disgruntled vet players or kids. Everybody knows that too. Once trust is lost it's gone forever.

 

[will1066]

I guess Kakko ain't playing darts with the vets again

 

[The Crypto Guy]

+/- is a very useful stat. him being +10 and mika being -15 when our team is in freefall tells a very important story, and it's cope to try to say otherwise.

Drury should send a message tonight, have Kakko wearing the C

 

[NickyFotiu]

Fair enough, but i think he has just had it. If kreider, lindgren, or zibs were scratched a game as well i doubt he would bitch about his scratching.

But the fact is Lav has fostered this atmosphere by continuously rewarding their bad play with ice time in key situations. Even last night though kreider and Zibs had less ice time, they were right there in the key moments, and havent lost Pp time.

That doesnt sit well with Kakko, and frankly, shouldn't sit well with anyone in the room.

kk hasnt dont anything worthy of being scratched, though he really hasnt done anything notably great as of late either to warrant more time.

Lav preached accountability yet has shown no accountability with the players who are playing the worst on the team. That needs to stop. So i dont mind Kakko calling out his coach, even if it might ruffle some vet feathers. They need their feathers ruffled.

I believe Zibs and CK have both been put on notice by Lavi as well. CK was playing with 4th liners. Zibs played near his career low in minutes. Could they be benched as well? Yes. That still does not mean KK has played well. I asked this previously. How many coaches has KK had? How many have benched him? Is there any chance that KK had something to do wit that and its not all the coaches being mean?

Anyway I'm going to step out. I'm glad KK has all your support. That is how it should be. We should support our players. I just disagree with some of the things being said on this thread. I will be very happy if KK goes out next game and scores a hat trick. I prefer KK to do well to shut me up.

 

[JohnC]

+/- is a very useful stat. him being +10 and mika being -15 when our team is in freefall tells a very important story, and it's cope to try to say otherwise.

Only in this context, really, but yes, with the team’s ES goal differential being -2 Kakko’s +10 looks squeaky clean against Mika’s -15.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I do not know about magic but the only one that can make KK be the 30-30 guy some on this board have said he can be is KK. His coaches can not do it for him. Hie teammates can not do it for him. He will have to put in the work to improve his skills.

Are you saying he was sat because he isn't playing like a top of the lineup player?

Because nobody is saying that he is that. They're saying the opposite: that Kakko is playing up to his role, actually living up to his minutes, and as such has been a net positive for the team.

He's their 3rd line RW who barely plays special teams. He's also
8th on the team in scoring
5th in 5v5 scoring
4th in 5v5 scoring/60
+10 on a team that's a +1 overall

If you block out the name and you just look at the results and say that's your 3RW, someone expected to be between your 7th and 9th best forward, on average, there's not really anything there to suggest that's a guy that should be fighting to stay in the lineup.

And that only becomes more true when the "top of the lineup" players making top money and getting the prime minutes are absolutely failing to perform even close to their roles.

I understand not liking Kakko's comment to the press, but to your point, it's been 6 years. If you were somebody who, 6 years after you're drafted, is getting scratched because you're not the player you were projected to be--and you've never been paid like it, and you've never been played like it, you'd probably be tired of it to. Kakko has played well enough to make the Finnish national team, but he's not played well enough to be our 3RW? I don't see it, so I'm not personally bothered by him saying as much.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Full comments from Kakko:

Kaapo Kakko expresses frustration with benching as Rangers drama boils: ‘I have not been the worst’

Also Tuesday, asked directly if he's concerned about his job security, coach Peter Laviolette said, "Those are things I can't control."

www.nytimes.com

“I was surprised,” said the 23-year-old New York Rangers forward, who will draw back into the lineup Tuesday in Nashville. “I know you’ve got to do something as the coach when you’re losing games, but it’s easy to pick the young guy and put him out. That’s how I feel.”

The Rangers have won only three of their past 13 games, and Laviolette told Kakko he had to make some kind of change with the lineup. Kakko understood that notion —

“If I was the coach, I would do something also,” he said — but didn’t think he should have been the one exiting the lineup.

Kakko’s play, like that of many of his teammates, has dipped during New York’s recent skid, but the Rangers have outscored opponents 22-9 with him on the ice in all situations this season. He has four goals, 10 assists and is plus-10 in 29 games.

“Nobody’s playing great right now,” he said. “I haven’t been on the ice too much when they score a goal. I have not been the worst.”

Kakko found early success this season playing on a line with Will Cuylle and Filip Chytil. But Chytil missed seven games with an upper-body injury, which disrupted some of its rhythm.

“Our line has not been the same like earlier in the year: getting goals, getting a lot of chances, playing in the O-zone,” Kakko said. “But that’s kind of like the whole team. We’ve been losing games and playing pretty bad. All of us. All the lines."

“But still, not too many goals against,” Kakko continued, referring to the team’s numbers with him on the ice. “It’s got to be better. Everyone’s got to be better. … There have still got to be more goals, but we’re also not playing the most. The third line is playing 10-12 minutes.”

Asked about his message to Kakko, Laviolette said he planned to keep those conversations internal.

“There’s been older players who have sat out as well,” Laviolette said when told about Kakko’s comments. “The decisions that I make, they’re tough decisions. Kaapo, our team, we need to play better. We’re 3-10 in our last 13 games, so that’s not good enough. We need to play a better brand of hockey. All of us.”

“It’s OK to be upset,” Laviolette said. “Everybody wants to play. I get that 100 percent.”

Yeah, Reilly Smith and Brodzinski. Those are the older players who have been scratched

 

[NickyFotiu]

Only in this context, really, but yes, with the team’s ES goal differential being -2 Kakko’s +10 looks squeaky clean against Mika’s -15.

Mika's plus minus is bad because he has been bad.

On the flip side you can't judge via plus minus in a vacuum. Leetch had some horrible +/- years while Rosival had some very good ones. You have to also look at other factors like which line gets the majority of offensive zone starts against lesser lines/dpairings.

 

[will1066]

@Gordon bombay

 

[mike14]

Full comments from Kakko:


Yeah, Reilly Smith and Brodzinski. Those are the older players who have been scratched

and Vesey. So basically all the guys that can be 'easily' scratched have been. Cuylle, Berard and Edstrom don't deserve it, Panarin isn't getting scratched while putting up points and ditto for Laf. So the only other guy left who isn't performing (and KK's 3 pts in 11 games isn't performing) is Kreider. And Kreider, a guy occasionally referred to as 'Mr Ranger' and has built up a lot of good will and trust within the org, has seen his minutes and role reduced, and it wouldn't be surprising to see him scratched soon if he doesn't respond to the message already being sent.

 

[Trxjw]

Gotta be a rough room if even Kakko is voicing his displeasure to the media. Hasn't taken the leap you want to see offensively but he's done everything this team has asked of him since they drafted him. Instead of building around him they basically played him in the lineup at the mercy of the veterans who are now throwing pity party.

Hope they keep him and make him a fixture of the next core. But more than likely they'll deal him so we can watch him blow up elsewhere.