Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[NickyFotiu]

At least kakko is showing a pulse and deisre to play. Good for him.

Cant say that about the wonder twins.

If all 3 are playing bad than how does it help to always point the finger elsewhere?

Zibs and CK have played poorly. That doesn't mean KK is not on pace for 13 goals while showing little improvement in his skating.

Why does it have to immediately make Kakko better? They've been worse than Kakko all season; that is reason enough to bench them.

Im not against benching them. I just don't see how benching them or not benching them is any excuse for KKs play.

 

[Harbour Dog]

If all 3 are playing bad than how does it help to always point the finger elsewhere?

Zibs and CK have played poorly. That doesn't mean KK is not on pace for 13 goals while showing little improvement in his skating.


Im not against benching them. I just don't see how benching them or not benching them is any excuse for KKs play.

Kakko has been on the ice for 19 goals for and 9 goals against. If his play is genuinely a problem, we're a cup contender.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Kakko has been on the ice for 19 goals for and 9 goals against. If his play is genuinely a problem, we're a cup contender.

Really? Would a team of Kakkos mean a cup contender? Okay I think this thread has officially jumped to shark lol

 

[Harbour Dog]

Really? Would a team of Kakkos mean a cup contender? Okay I think this thread has officially jumped to shark lol

What?

What I mean is if we have the luxury of upgrading on a 3rd liner who is on the ice for more than double goals for than opposing goals, then we must be one of the best teams in the league.

But we don't have that luxury, because our "stars" flatout suck, and are not being held accountable yet.

 

[Harbour Dog]

See that last response is why I don't engage much on here anymore. Reduced the point I was trying to make to some stupid soundbite, and laughed at it.

Now I'm pissed, and I was having a pretty good day

 

[NickyFotiu]

What?

What I mean is if we have the luxury of upgrading on a 3rd liner who is on the ice for more than double goals for than opposing goals, then we must be one of the best teams in the league.

But we don't have that luxury, because our "stars" flatout suck, and are not being held accountable yet.

More than one thing can be true.

CK and Zibs can be playing horribly.

Kakko can also have played poorly in his last dozen or so games.

Its not an either or situation.

Pointing the finger at Kakko doesn't make Zibs/CK better.

Pointing the finger at Zibs/CK doesn't make Kakko better.

See that last response is why I don't engage much on here anymore. Reduced the point I was trying to make to some stupid soundbite, and laughed at it.

Now I'm pissed, and I was having a pretty good day

Sorry you are upset. Not my intention. People can disagree.

 

[elmaco]

Are you missing the point? How does scratching Kaako fix Mika and Kreider the leaders on this team wearing letters making twice as much money for equivalent production dodge accountability?

When's the last time those 2 bozos forechecked and created a turnover?

Kaako had 2 bad backchecks that led to goals. He's also +10 on the year while Mika is -15. The net difference alone is significant.

"B-but, they make more m-money.."

 

[Harbour Dog]

More than one thing can be true.

CK and Zibs can be playing horribly.

Kakko can also have played poorly in his last dozen or so games.

Its not an either or situation.

Pointing the finger at Kakko doesn't make Zibs/CK better.

Pointing the finger at Zibs/CK doesn't make Kakko better.

How do we know that scratching the guys that deserve it most won't be beneficial for the team. Certainly seems like the logical place to start.

We haven't moved them off PP1. We haven't moved them to 3rd line minutes and kept them there. We've never put the kids in a position where they have to carry the water.

 

[bhamill]

More than one thing can be true.

CK and Zibs can be playing horribly.

Kakko can also have played poorly in his last dozen or so games.

Its not an either or situation.

Pointing the finger at Kakko doesn't make Zibs/CK better.

Pointing the finger at Zibs/CK doesn't make Kakko better.


Sorry you are upset. Not my intention. People can disagree.

Well, it IS an either or as far as who is getting scratched, unless Lavi is scratching all 3... which he aint.

Kakko is outproducing 20 and 93 at 5v5 and plays defense. The 50-72-24 line was head and shoulders above 20-93-whoever. He makes an effort. He absolutely should be pissed that he's being held to a higher standard than the two "veteran leaders" of the team who get way more opportunity and have much higher AAVs. And he is correct: it was the "easier" move for Lavi to make. Just sit the young guy and let the ridiculously underperforming vets do whatever.

 

[NickyFotiu]

How do we know that scratching the guys that deserve it most won't be beneficial for the team. Certainly seems like the logical place to start.

We haven't moved them off PP1. We haven't moved them to 3rd line minutes and kept them there. We've never put the kids in a position where they have to carry the water.

Im 100% for holding everyone playing poorly. That includes Zibs and CK. Also includes Fox.

Now with that said its also been around 5 years of excuses for KK.

 

[JimmyG89]

Kakko didn't say he was playing well. He said he wasn't the worst guy in the lineup. He was 100% right.

Has his play dipped in the past couple weeks? It has, but it does not excuse that he's sitting in the pressbox and dudes that get multiple opportunities and fumble them get next to no change made, ironically until that game.

It's almost like Laviolette was like f*** it I'm reducing his time too.

If this team was rolling along, sure scratch Kakko for his dip in play, but he is 100% right to be annoyed and PO'ed about being sent to the pressbox before people playing worse.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Well, it IS an either or as far as who is getting scratched, unless Lavi is scratching all 3... which he aint.

Kakko is outproducing 20 and 93 at 5v5 and plays defense. The 50-72-24 line was head and shoulders above 20-93-whoever. He makes an effort. He absolutely should be pissed that he's being held to a higher standard than the two "veteran leaders" of the team who get way more opportunity and have much higher AAVs. And he is correct: it was the "easier" move for Lavi to make. Just sit the young guy and let the ridiculously underperforming vets do whatever.

Zibs and CK deserve to be benched as well.. Their poor play isn't an excuse for KK in my book.

When I was caught with fireworks it didn't matter that Greg, Lou and Mike all used more dangerous fireworks. I was still punished

Cuyle, Edstrom, Berard, Schneider etc weren't benched for being young.

I have tried to give KK the benefit of the doubt but at some point KK has to be responsible for his own play. If he is trailing his linemates is it because of older players or because he hasn't improved his skating?

 

[Peltz]

Im 100% for holding everyone playing poorly. That includes Zibs and CK. Also includes Fox.

Now with that said its also been around 5 years of excuses for KK.

I don't think you get it. No excuses are needed.

KK has made the most of his opportunities this season. He's punching above his weight.

If you're evaluating him in the context of his cap hit and his place in the lineup, he's outperforming what is expected of him.

The top 6, other than Panarin, is underperforming relative to their place in the lineup and expectations placed on them.

That's what you're not getting here. No, KK is not a fast skater and yes, that is holding him back from taking another step and becoming a star in this league.

But he still played well.

If you're evaluating him in the context of being a 2nd overall pick, then sure I get your argument. But if you're evaluating him based on whether him in the lineup gives the team the best chance to win games, then you're wrong.

Playing Kakko gives this team a better chance to win than not playing him. Period.

You cannot say the same for Zib and Kreider right now.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Kakko didn't say he was playing well. He said he wasn't the worst guy in the lineup. He was 100% right.

Has his play dipped in the past couple weeks? It has, but it does not excuse that he's sitting in the pressbox and dudes that get multiple opportunities and fumble them get next to no change made, ironically until that game.

It's almost like Laviolette was like f*** it I'm reducing his time too.

If this team was rolling along, sure scratch Kakko for his dip in play, but he is 100% right to be annoyed and PO'ed about being sent to the pressbox before people playing worse.

That is a fair point but imo KKs words were weak as heck. I would look at my own play when benched not point fingers at anyone else.

 

[Peltz]

That is a fair point but imo KKs words were weak as heck. I would look at my own play when benched not point fingers at anyone else.

I think he was and answered honestly.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't think you get it. No excuses are needed.

KK has made the most of his opportunities this season. He's punching above his weight.

If you're evaluating him in the context of his cap hit and his place in the lineup, he's outperforming what is expected of him.

The top 6, other than Panarin, is underperforming relative to their place in the lineup and expectations placed on them.

That's what you're not getting here. No, KK is not a fast skater and yes, that is holding him back from taking another step and becoming a star in this league.

But he still played well.

If you're evaluating him in the context of being a 2nd overall pick, then sure I get your argument. But if you're evaluating him based on whether him in the lineup gives the team the best chance to win games, then you're wrong.

Playing Kakko gives this team a better chance to win than not playing him.

You cannot say the same for Zib and Kreider right now.

Lets look at KK in a vacuum for a second. If KK has played so well why don't other teams offer a lot for him in a trade? Other teams don't care about how poorly a center in Zibs has played while evaluating a right wing in Kaako.

I think he was and answered honestly.

Reads differently to me. If I got it wrong then I apologize to KK. I honestly would never point fingers in the press at my teammates. If CK who played with 4th liners is benched Id be 100% shocked if he called out his teammtes for it.

 

[Peltz]

Lets look at KK in a vacuum for a second. If KK has played so well why don't other teams offer a lot for him in a trade? Other teams don't care about how poorly a center in Zibs has played while evaluating a right wing in Kaako.

Because it's mid-season and he's an unrestricted free agent.

There are, presumably, going to be higher scoring rentals available at the deadline for competing teams. If Kakko had a longer term contract at this price, I do think he'd fetch a decent return right now.

But you don't trade a big asset for a rental like Kakko, especially this early. It makes no sense.

You can sign him in the offseason without giving up anything.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Because it's mid-season and he's an unrestricted free agent.

There are, presumably, going to be higher scoring rentals available at the deadline for competing teams. If Kakko had a longer term contract at this price, I do think he'd fetch a decent return right now.

I respectfully disagree. If other teams value KK (or any available player) highly they would be trying hard to get him imo.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Kakko didn't say he was playing well. He said he wasn't the worst guy in the lineup. He was 100% right.

Has his play dipped in the past couple weeks? It has, but it does not excuse that he's sitting in the pressbox and dudes that get multiple opportunities and fumble them get next to no change made, ironically until that game.

It's almost like Laviolette was like f*** it I'm reducing his time too.

If this team was rolling along, sure scratch Kakko for his dip in play, but he is 100% right to be annoyed and PO'ed about being sent to the pressbox before people playing worse.

A lot of it has to do with the past imho as well.

Dude gets sat in the playoffs, twice when the team wasnt playing great, and given no explanation. Now this.

Any logical individual would start to think that maybe it wouldn't hurt trying to speak up and become more assertive. At the very least you can retain some self pride.

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

Kaako is not the problem.

He is not the solution either.

 

[RangersFan1994]

They traded Trouba. They scratched Smith. Who gets scratched will not make KK play better. The only one that can make KK play better is KK. How many years has it been? Have we seen an improvement in his skating? If Zibs is scratched will KK go improve his skating?

Same can be said for Fox, have we seen an improvement in his skating? We have him seen him more animated though throwing his hands and looking up at the sky. Fox should be dealt for not improving his game as well.

 

[CLW]

Tons of chatter around the league about Kakko.

Drury has to get something of value in return otherwise its just a move for moves sake which would suck

He won't. If Kakko ends up at a place he doesn't like he'll be out of there in 2026 when he hits UFA. Kakko has no trade value to speak of. It's another Buch trade return or a package of picks topped by a 2nd round pick. Also other GMs know Drury is prone to boneheaded decisions so they are in no hurry to do him any favours.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Same can be said for Fox, have we seen an improvement in his skating? We have him seen him more animated though throwing his hands and looking up at the sky. Fox should be dealt for not improving his game as well.

I agree. Fox should have improved his skating. He has played very poorly and needs to look in the mirror not to the sky.

A lot of it has to do with the past imho as well.

Dude gets sat in the playoffs, twice when the team wasnt playing great, and given no explanation. Now this.

Any logical individual would start to think that maybe it wouldn't hurt trying to speak up and become more assertive. At the very least you can retain some self pride.

He is on pace for 11 goals this season. If he scores some goals he will not have to speak up at all. His play will do his talking.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I do not want to be a mean guy bashing KK. I just did not like he pointing fingers at his teammates. I hope you are all right about him. I want him to be the 30 goal-30 assist guy some one this board have said he could become. That would help the Rangers and make me very happy.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

He is on pace for 11 goals this season. If he scores some goals he will not have to speak up at all. His play will do his talking.

Mika Zibanejad is on pace for 11 even strength goals as well.

He also wasnt happy when his minutes were reduced.

He wasnt healthy scratched though - Yet he gets 5 minutes more of ice time, and 3.5x more pay.

If Kakko says nothing and just eats it again - he's weak, if he speaks up - he's a brat. Can't win.

Also - if goals do the talking why was it Mika out there in the last minute of the game the other night instead of Cuylle who already has 11 goals and on pace for 30? His play sure has turned heads, except when it counts apparently.

Mixed messaging.