Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[NickyFotiu]

My fear at this point is other teams do not value KK as much as some fans in this thread. I think if other teams valued KK high he might have already been moved. I think most our team is available right now but that the trade offers have been very low.

 

[McRanger92]

My fear at this point is other teams do not value KK as much as some fans in this thread. I think if other teams valued KK high he might have already been moved. I think most our team is available right now but that the trade offers have been very low.

It's hard to discuss Kakko earnestly because his defenders will accuse you of having an ax to grind if you point out his flaws. But other teams probably see him as a bust, a bottom 6 guy who isn't very physical, fast or offensively gifted. His best bet is going to a team that's a bottom feeder that would be willing to give him a top 6 role that he's never shown capable of. I dont even think Buffalo would trade greenway for him and people think thats a big overpay on our end lol.

 

[Cusedog]

It's absolute insanity if sitting Kakko was NOT trade related in any way. Fireable offense because clearly the coach is watching a different team than the rest of us. They could have benched any of Kreider, Zibanejad, or Lafreniere instead.

Exactly right. Kakko was by far not the example needed. Lavi needs to get a set if he intends to have any shot at turning this debacle around. This team is on their way to getting the coach fired and Lavi's response was to press box Kakko. How Phil Housley is still drawing a check from the Rangers is astounding.

 

[LOFIN]

It's hard to discuss Kakko earnestly because his defenders will accuse you of having an ax to grind if you point out his flaws. But other teams probably see him as a bust, a bottom 6 guy who isn't very physical, fast or offensively gifted. His best bet is going to a team that's a bottom feeder that would be willing to give him a top 6 role that he's never shown capable of. I dont even think Buffalo would trade greenway for him and people think thats a big overpay on our end lol.

Former top picks actually do hold relative value around the league. Not in a sense that you are going to get a big package of assets or good players in exhange for one, but teams are usually very interested in these "busts". The "We can fix him" -syndrome. Look at Jesse Puljujärvi getting another chance at Pittsburgh even after visiting Europe. How many chances did Yakupov get? Nichushkin, etc. Plenty of examples.

Kakko is very slow, but I wouldn't say he's not offensively gifted or physical. There's more to physicality than just hitting people, Kakko is very good at holding the puck along the boards. That is physical. And as far as offensive talent, people can still see flashes of it and know what the talent was pre-draft. So there's no doubt that teams around the league are very interested in seeing him in a different environment.

Drury and Lavy are certainly not upping his value by scratching him, and other teams are going to circle in like hawks offering pennies on the dollar for him.

 

[McRanger92]

Former top picks actually do hold relative value around the league. Not in a sense that you are going to get a big package of assets or good players in exhange for one, but teams are usually very interested in these "busts". The "We can fix him" -syndrome.

Kakko is very slow, but I wouldn't say he's not offensively gifted or physical. There's more to physicality than just hitting people, Kakko is very good at holding the puck along the boards. That is physical. And as far as offensive talent, people can still see flashes of it and know what the talent was pre-draft. So there's no doubt that teams around the league are very interested in seeing him in a different environment.

Drury and Lavy are certainly not upping his value by scratching him, and other teams are going to circle in like hawks offering pennies on the dollar for him.

I have no strong feelings on Kakko. He's never changed or improved much as a player in 6 seasons despite being scratched every year of his career. The way you described him is the same way Oilers fans described Jesse Puljujarvi all those years. There's a lot of game tape out there on kakko and, would you trade anything of real value for him?

 

[LOFIN]

There's a lot of game tape out there on kakko and, would you trade anything of real value for him?

No I wouldn't. As it stands, he's a third line player by status, on a team that's looking to make some moves, and the team just scratched him.

Do I think there's interest around the league? Absolutely, I would be shocked if 20 teams are not calling Drury asking about him. Are they going to offer something substantial if it's just Kakko getting moved? No, because of what I said above. His value wasn't that high, and the events during this month + scratch have sunk whatever there was to begin with.

 

[LionsHeart]

My fear at this point is other teams do not value KK as much as some fans in this thread. I think if other teams valued KK high he might have already been moved. I think most our team is available right now but that the trade offers have been very low.

This is probably more or less the truth. He’s available, but it’s just not going to be a return worth trading him.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's hard to discuss Kakko earnestly because his defenders will accuse you of having an ax to grind if you point out his flaws. But other teams probably see him as a bust, a bottom 6 guy who isn't very physical, fast or offensively gifted. His best bet is going to a team that's a bottom feeder that would be willing to give him a top 6 role that he's never shown capable of. I dont even think Buffalo would trade greenway for him and people think thats a big overpay on our end lol.

I welcome all honest opinions. Honest opinions do not come based on wanting to be right or personal grudges. I find KK to be an enigma wrapped in a riddle as a player so he is hard to value. Im honestly as clueless as anyone when it comes to his value. Could be as high as a 2nd round pick or as low as a 5th round pick. I really don't know.

 

[Ruggs225]

Dude will get at least a second round pick and maybe even a first pretty easily.

Worse players than him go for more at the TDL, and the fact he is young and still has potential and we will get a decent return for him.

I just dont tbink we should trade him. Him, chytil and cuylle should just be playing more.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Dude will get at least a second round pick and maybe even a first pretty easily.

Worse players than him go for more at the TDL, and the fact he is young and still has potential and we will get a decent return for him.

I just dont tbink we should trade him. Him, chytil and cuylle should just be playing more.

I hope you are right. How would you compare KKs value today to where Zooks, Buch and JT Millers value was when we moved them?

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

here's a question for al of ya's:

if he were to be sent to another team, could you honestly that you would really miss him say in 3-4 years from now?

I would miss him immediately

 

[Ruggs225]

I hope you are right. How would you compare KKs value today to where Zooks, Buch and JT Millers value was when we moved them?

Zuccs could have gotten 2 firsts if conditions were met but ultimately brought back a 2&3. So we didnt get full value.

Buch and miller were both awful trades and were horribly mismanaged. We undersold both bc we targeted a specific player (blais) or was a last minute throw to complete a bgger deal (mcd). Horrible asset management in both.

I think Kakko goes for player rather than picks though. So another player like him who is young but not living up to expectations is most likely.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Zuccs could have gotten 2 firsts if conditions were met but ultimately brought back a 2&3. So we didnt get full value.

Buch and miller were both awful trades and were horribly mismanaged. We undersold both bc we targeted a specific player (blais) or was a last minute throw to complete a bgger deal (mcd). Horrible asset management in both.

I think Kakko goes for player rather than picks though. So another player like him who is young but not living up to expectations is most likely.

Do you think KK has more or less trade value today than those players had at the time of their trades?

I also think a young prospect would be the way to go as long as its a real prospect not a Lias Anderson type.

 

[Ruggs225]

Do you think KK has more or less trade value today than those players had at the time of their trades?

I also think a young prospect would be the way to go as long as its a real prospect not a Lias Anderson type.

I think his value is around Skjei or Nils Lundvist. Who both got us a first.

I think Zucc, buch, miller all had higher value but the GM screwed up the trade at the time. Buch and miller were egregiously bad and everyone said so immediately.

 

[will1066]

Some GM will bite. 23 years old. Still has potential. Just not here.

 

[bhamill]

Kakko is the most tradeable guy among the forwards, and is also the slowest player on the team up front. It does make sense to trade him. Its probably going to be in a deal where people cry for years about the value we gave up but the team desperately needs a change to the roster chemistry. Im hoping for a defenseman but Im not going to be upset if its a bottom 6 guy like Jordan Greenway for his physical play or Nils Hoglander for his skating.

To me Kakko sure isn't untouchable. That being said you don't trade him unless you get value and a bottom six guy in his late 20's probably isn't going to be that. Kakko's 5v5 numbers are among the best on the team, and as far as chemistry, Kakko isn't the problem. Zibs, Miller and even Kreider are the problems there. And there are other guys who aren't necessarily "chemistry negatives" that should go first: Lindy, Smith for instance. The least we need to get for Kakko is a "change of scenery" player of similar age and potential. There's really no other point to trading him. I'm assuming we can't get a high draft pick for him at this junction.

 

[B17 Apricots]

I like Kakko. But I'm not against trading him. The reality is, despite that I think he has plenty more to give I look at the forward outlook of this roster and I say to myself, where does he really fit going forward? Because at this point, Kreider is likely gone. Panarin is a question mark. I'm not against re-signing him for the right price. But I think you'd have to factor in he could be out too. Cuylle's a bit of a question mark but he looks really solid. That might be a top 6 replacement. You have Othmann and Berard in the mix on the left. On the right side you have the more high end talent in Laf and Perreault. Maybe Laf switches back to the left? There's always the possibility they could land a major free agent.

I'm just looking at it like this... there's a lot of competition on the wing. Kakko is in this weird spot now where despite the fact that he's still only 23 years old because he's been in the league for so many years there's no more possibility of a bridge deal to RFA. A 1 year deal this summer brings him to UFA status. Is that what we want? I doubt he stays here. You can't let him walk, you have to get something for him. So you're almost shoehorned into committing some term to him. Are we going to force ourselves into that? What if guys pass him on the depth chart and he's permanently stuck on the 3rd line? How much money and term are we paying him to stay in that role?

Like I said, I think there's plenty of upside still there but ultimately if it comes down to it, Kakko might be worth more to us as a trade chip rather than perpetually using him as a 3rd liner. If he can round out as a legitimate top 6 player then great... otherwise I'd rather try to recoup some picks for him

 

[bhamill]

No I wouldn't. As it stands, he's a third line player by status, on a team that's looking to make some moves, and the team just scratched him.

Do I think there's interest around the league? Absolutely, I would be shocked if 20 teams are not calling Drury asking about him. Are they going to offer something substantial if it's just Kakko getting moved? No, because of what I said above. His value wasn't that high, and the events during this month + scratch have sunk whatever there was to begin with.

The Chytil-Kakko-Cuylle line is the 2nd line, on a team that just won the Pres Trophy and went to the ECF, and Kakko is outscoring Zibs and Kreider at even strength... and playing better defense than them, at a fraction of either of their cap hits. Kakko still has more value to NYR than anything they likely get in a trade, that's why he SHOULDN'T be moved.

 

[LOFIN]

The Chytil-Kakko-Cuylle line is the 2nd line, on a team that just won the Pres Trophy and went to the ECF, and Kakko is outscoring Zibs and Kreider at even strength... and playing better defense than them, at a fraction of either of their cap hits. Kakko still has more value to NYR than anything they likely get in a trade, that's why he SHOULDN'T be moved.

I don't disagree, but the writing is on the wall here.

 

[Rranger]

Kakko is the least of the Ranger problems. Trading him next would be chicken shit on Drurys part. Drury needs to grow a set and trade the obvious.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think his value is around Skjei or Nils Lundvist. Who both got us a first.

I think Zucc, buch, miller all had higher value but the GM screwed up the trade at the time. Buch and miller were egregiously bad and everyone said so immediately.

Interesting comparisons. Would anyone give a 1st now for Lundqvist? That is my fear. That draft choices value goes down over time if they do not produce a lot. I feel Brady was probably viewed as higher skilled with a better ceiling/track record but I could be wrong.

In regard to the other trades we are not really discussing if they were good (or bad) trades but instead what their trade value was at that time. Do you feel that our GM passed up better offers for those players? If so why would they do that?

I really hope you are right that KK's trade value is a 1st or 2nd pick but I do think if a 1st was offered KK would likely have already been traded. Hopefully a 2nd is possible.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Is Kakko playing tonight

 

[Ruggs225]

Interesting comparisons. Would anyone give a 1st now for Lundqvist? That is my fear. That draft choices value goes down over time if they do not produce a lot. I feel Brady was probably viewed as higher skilled with a better ceiling/track record but I could be wrong.

In regard to the other trades we are not really discussing if they were good (or bad) trades but instead what their trade value was at that time. Do you feel that our GM passed up better offers for those players? If so why would they do that?

I really hope you are right that KK's trade value is a 1st or 2nd pick but I do think if a 1st was offered KK would likely have already been traded. Hopefully a 2nd is possible.

I think it was specifically mentioned that Drury wanted Blais so he might have had better “pick” offers but he wanted a player who he valued high.

jT miller was unique in that the rangers werent necessarily shopping him at the tdl but rather we were shopping mcd and some vets. TBL requested him towards the end of the negotiations and in a effort to to complete the trade at the very ladt minute we relented to grt Namestnikov.

If Miller eas shopped by himself we definitely would have gotten a better return. It was a weird and awful situation that Gorton got taken advantage of.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think it was specifically mentioned that Drury wanted Blais so he might have had better “pick” offers but he wanted a player who he valued high.

jT miller was unique in that the rangers werent necessarily shopping him at the tdl but rather we were shopping mcd and some vets. TBL requested him towards the end of the negotiations and in a effort to to complete the trade at the very ladt minute we relented to grt Namestnikov.

If Miller eas shopped by himself we definitely would have gotten a better return. It was a weird and awful situation that Gorton got taken advantage of.

Both scenarios are possible but I was not in those meetings so its hard for me to comments. Do we have anything directly saying that Drury passed up a 1st round pick from another team? I personally am skeptical of that theory unless you have some proof that was the case.

Regarding KK have you seen any rumors of a 1st round pick for him? I really think that trade would be made fast by Drury if possible.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Tons of chatter around the league about Kakko.

Drury has to get something of value in return otherwise its just a move for moves sake which would suck