Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Wondering why Othmann getting the love over Berard????
I guess cause he’s a 1st rounder???
I’m really anxious to see how Cuylle does in his second year.
I think living with Trochek and his fam was great for him.
This season he should be settled in and take another step forward developmentally. I think he’s got runway to play higher up in the line up. He’s got all the tools, similar to Kakko, but I actually think Cuylle has a better wrist shot. He’s also more physical. Hes going to get his hits again this season, but if we see an uptick in his skating, he could be one of the most pleasant surprises in the line up.
I’m not with dropping him to 4th line. I’d like to see his minutes/role increase.
I’d also like to see him on a line opposite a player with wheels/creativity.. Cuylle has no problem going straight to the front of the net and staying there. It would be great if someone can get him the puck in those situations

This is something thats flying a bit under the radar.

There were many times later in the year when he obviously had a dip in his play, which is to be expected in a rookie season for most players - especially ones that play his brand of game.

However, even in the playoffs there were flashes of him being a beast out there. He could definitely top 20 goals this year (he had 15 this past year, i dont care what anyone says - the refs robbed him of 2).

Sometimes we see sophomore slumps, but im sure in 2-4 years the kid is going to be a monster.

 

[will1066]

This is something thats flying a bit under the radar.

There were many times later in the year when he obviously had a dip in his play, which is to be expected in a rookie season for most players - especially ones that play his brand of game.

However, even in the playoffs there were flashes of him being a beast out there. He could definitely top 20 goals this year (he had 15 this past year, i dont care what anyone says - the refs robbed him of 2).

Sometimes we see sophomore slumps, but im sure in 2-4 years the kid is going to be a monster

I have more confidence in Cuylle than I do Kakko, to be completely honest.

 

[NickyFotiu]

This is something thats flying a bit under the radar.

There were many times later in the year when he obviously had a dip in his play, which is to be expected in a rookie season for most players - especially ones that play his brand of game.

However, even in the playoffs there were flashes of him being a beast out there. He could definitely top 20 goals this year (he had 15 this past year, i dont care what anyone says - the refs robbed him of 2).

Sometimes we see sophomore slumps, but im sure in 2-4 years the kid is going to be a monster.

I really shook my head when a coach mentioned Will with Cam Neely. Cam was one of the best power forwards I have seen. Crazy to put that out there. I don't know what to expect from Will. His size, speed, shot, and toughness give me a lot of hope but will that ever add up to more than a 3rd liner? He has a lot of tools. Would be great if his offensive upside becomes more than 15-20 goals and 30-40 points. I think its possible because as he gets stronger its possible that shot gets even harder.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I really shook my head when a coach mentioned Will with Cam Neely. Cam was one of the best power forwards I have seen. Crazy to put that out there. I don't know what to expect from Will. His size, speed, shot, and toughness give me a lot of hope but will that ever add up to more than a 3rd liner? He has a lot of tools. Would be great if his offensive upside becomes more than 15-20 goals and 30-40 points. I think its possible because as he gets stronger its possible that shot gets even harder.

I think his straight-line style of play is suited for a 3rd line role on most teams and he may top out in that regard, but it doesn't mean he wont have the ability to become a potential fit in the top 6 if called upon and gels with the right linemates.

Its the same story as Kakko and Laf though, if you are measuring them by point production - a player like him will never be able to reach that star level on the Rangers since they wont be a benefit of all of those PP time/points.

Maybe on a team like Columbus or elsewhere a guy like Cuylle could be parked in front of the net on the PP and very very effective there, ala Neely.

Ideally for the Rangers, they allow him to stick on the 3rd line with a hopefully healthy Chytil and Kakko or other and he takes off. He can play a 4th line role and be effective there as well, but if you ask me - id much rather roll with Cuylle on LW3 than Othmann unless he comes in and blows the doors off with noticeable improvement in skating and defensive/overall awareness.

Regardless, that will be a fun competition and Cuylle is a good bar for Othy to reach for. I dont think you can discount what Will did last year as a rookie.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think his straight-line style of play is suited for a 3rd line role on most teams and he may top out in that regard, but it doesn't mean he wont have the ability to become a potential fit in the top 6 if called upon and gels with the right linemates.

Its the same story as Kakko and Laf though, if you are measuring them by point production - a player like him will never be able to reach that star level on the Rangers since they wont be a benefit of all of those PP time/points.

Maybe on a team like Columbus or elsewhere a guy like Cuylle could be parked in front of the net on the PP and very very effective there, ala Neely.

Ideally for the Rangers, they allow him to stick on the 3rd line with a hopefully healthy Chytil and Kakko or other and he takes off. He can play a 4th line role and be effective there as well, but if you ask me - id much rather roll with Cuylle on LW3 than Othmann unless he comes in and blows the doors off with noticeable improvement in skating and defensive/overall awareness.

Regardless, that will be a fun competition and Cuylle is a good bar for Othy to reach for. I dont think you can discount what Will did last year as a rookie.

If Will was a bigger scorer I think he would have been a first rounder for sure. I do have hope that he could be a late developer because of the size, speed, and shot. When I look at Will, KK, and Laf I see much different skill sets so I try not to compare them too often.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

If Will was a bigger scorer I think he would have been a first rounder for sure. I do have hope that he could be a late developer because of the size, speed, and shot. When I look at Will, KK, and Laf I see much different skill sets so I try not to compare them too often.

I agree, 3 totally different players - but it was more of statement than a comparison.

I know we've beaten it to death here, but any young forward - even Gabe when he arrives - their potential is capped on this club unless one of the forwards on PP1 is moved/retired. Its just a simple fact.

I still have serious doubts Laf will get any siginficant PP1 time next year

 

[NickyFotiu]

I agree, 3 totally different players - but it was more of statement than a comparison.

I know we've beaten it to death here, but any young forward - even Gabe when he arrives - their potential is capped on this club unless one of the forwards on PP1 is moved/retired. Its just a simple fact.

I still have serious doubts Laf will get any siginficant PP1 time next year

I think we need to develop a legit second PP and not run PP1 to near exhaustion. 1 guy not hustling on a PP takes away a lot of the advantage. In fact 2 guys not hustling becomes a disadvantage. Our PP 2 should be better than it has been. Get them enough practice that they become a legit option not just a 25 second oh well change.

 

[SA16]

I think we need to develop a legit second PP and not run PP1 to near exhaustion. 1 guy not hustling on a PP takes away a lot of the advantage. In fact 2 guys not hustling becomes a disadvantage. Our PP 2 should be better than it has been. Get them enough practice that they become a legit option not just a 25 second oh well change.

Considering there is a pretty clear positive trend between % of ice time PP1 gets and PP% I would say we do not need to play the worse players more.

Four of the top five PPs in the league (all but CAR) all played PP1 at least 75% of the time. It's talked a lot because people watch the Rangers, but not other teams, and then conclude the Rangers are different but the Rangers really don't play PP1 that much more than the average team does. Panarin got 76% of the PP mins which in 407 minutes (league average pp TOI) equates to 3.77 mins/game. The 16th-17th team in PP1 TOI% was ARI/NYI at 68% which equates to 3.37 mins/game. So the Rangers PP1 usage is about 24 seconds more, per game, than league average which is something like 10 seconds per PP.

In terms of STARTING pp2 on a PP I will never agree that that should be done in any normal situation.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Considering there is a pretty clear positive trend between % of ice time PP1 gets and PP% I would say we do not need to play the worse players more.

Four of the top five PPs in the league (all but CAR) all played PP1 at least 75% of the time. It's talked a lot because people watch the Rangers, but not other teams, and then conclude the Rangers are different but the Rangers really don't play PP1 that much more than the average team does. Panarin got 76% of the PP mins which in 407 minutes (league average pp TOI) equates to 3.77 mins/game. The 16th-17th team in PP1 TOI% was ARI/NYI at 68% which equates to 3.37 mins/game. So the Rangers PP1 usage is about 24 seconds more, per game, than league average which is something like 10 seconds per PP.

Yeah, the simple fact is, your #1 unit is your #1 unit and theres little reason to siphon time away from them unless they are completely inept or ineffective.

This isnt the case with the Rangers top unit as they have been #3, #7 & #4 at years end over the last 3 seasons with relatively the same group. Very successful.

You dont mess with that. I'd love for the kids like Laf to be given more PP time on PP2 but that just wont happen and frankly shouldnt. Either he (or any other young budding star on this team, Gabe, Kakko, Othmann, Cuylle) is part of PP1 or he isnt.

There just isnt room unless there is an injury or movement of one of the core guys on PP1

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Yeah, the simple fact is, your #1 unit is your #1 unit and theres little reason to siphon time away from them unless they are completely inept or ineffective.

This isnt the case with the Rangers top unit as they have been #3, #7 & #4 at years end over the last 3 seasons with relatively the same group. Very successful.

You dont mess with that. I'd love for the kids like Laf to be given more PP time on PP2 but that just wont happen and frankly shouldnt. Either he (or any other young budding star on this team, Gabe, Kakko, Othmann, Cuylle) is part of PP1 or he isnt.

There just isnt room unless there is an injury or movement of one of the core guys on PP1

The Powerplay going ice cold is what got us knocked out 2 years in a row. I don’t care what their ranking was in the regular reason.

Carolina was 2nd in the league somehow but their PP also lost them the series against us it was so bad.

Some players step up in the playoffs (Laf) and some don’t (Zib and Panarin), the rangers being allergic to change and adjustments are a huge problem especially in the playoffs where you need to be bold .

 

[NickyFotiu]

Considering there is a pretty clear positive trend between % of ice time PP1 gets and PP% I would say we do not need to play the worse players more.

Four of the top five PPs in the league (all but CAR) all played PP1 at least 75% of the time. It's talked a lot because people watch the Rangers, but not other teams, and then conclude the Rangers are different but the Rangers really don't play PP1 that much more than the average team does. Panarin got 76% of the PP mins which in 407 minutes (league average pp TOI) equates to 3.77 mins/game. The 16th-17th team in PP1 TOI% was ARI/NYI at 68% which equates to 3.37 mins/game. So the Rangers PP1 usage is about 24 seconds more, per game, than league average which is something like 10 seconds per PP.

In terms of STARTING pp2 on a PP I will never agree that that should be done in any normal situation.

My point is not to play worse players more. I'm saying we should not play PP1 past the point of their peak effectiveness. There is a point of diminishing returns. I would like to see a graph of when the PP1 is their most effective and least effective with all 5 guys on the ice. There are times I see some of them really taking it easy. To me that is not the best way to go. If they can hustle hard for all 2 minutes then great play them for all 2 minutes but if their hustling is reduced to loafing by the 80 second mark what does that do to their effectiveness from 80 seconds to 110 seconds?

Yeah, the simple fact is, your #1 unit is your #1 unit and theres little reason to siphon time away from them unless they are completely inept or ineffective.

This isnt the case with the Rangers top unit as they have been #3, #7 & #4 at years end over the last 3 seasons with relatively the same group. Very successful.

You dont mess with that. I'd love for the kids like Laf to be given more PP time on PP2 but that just wont happen and frankly shouldnt. Either he (or any other young budding star on this team, Gabe, Kakko, Othmann, Cuylle) is part of PP1 or he isnt.

There just isnt room unless there is an injury or movement of one of the core guys on PP1

I'm all for playing the PP1 as long as they are playing like PP1 but they are human. At what point does their effectiveness decline if they are hustling? 70 seconds? 90 seconds?

Regardless it can only help us to prepare our PP2 better in practice. In games they look like 5 individuals not a unit. There should be enough offensive talent on PP2 to be more effective if they play as a unit instead of 5 guys.

 

[SA16]

My point is not to play worse players more. I'm saying we should not play PP1 past the point of their peak effectiveness. There is a point of diminishing returns. I would like to see a graph of when the PP1 is their most effective and least effective with all 5 guys on the ice. There are times I see some of them really taking it easy. To me that is not the best way to go. If they can hustle hard for all 2 minutes then great play them for all 2 minutes but if their hustling is reduced to loafing by the 80 second mark what does that do to their effectiveness from 80 seconds to 110 seconds?


I'm all for playing the PP1 as long as they are playing like PP1 but they are human. At what point does their effectiveness decline if they are hustling? 70 seconds? 90 seconds?

Regardless it can only help us to prepare our PP2 better in practice. In games they look like 5 individuals not a unit. There should be enough offensive talent on PP2 to be more effective if they play as a unit instead of 5 guys.

My point is the Rangers don't really do that. PP1 stays on the ice because they are in the zone a lot. If the puck is cleared after 80-90 seconds they generally do change for the second unit. You're not going to make a line change while they are controlling the puck in the zone. Obviously in certain situations where they are down 1 or 2 goals in the third they may keep them out longer. I don't think there is generally much hustling on PPs in any case outside of chasing dump ins on zone entries.

 

[bhamill]

I think his straight-line style of play is suited for a 3rd line role on most teams and he may top out in that regard, but it doesn't mean he wont have the ability to become a potential fit in the top 6 if called upon and gels with the right linemates.

Its the same story as Kakko and Laf though, if you are measuring them by point production - a player like him will never be able to reach that star level on the Rangers since they wont be a benefit of all of those PP time/points.

Maybe on a team like Columbus or elsewhere a guy like Cuylle could be parked in front of the net on the PP and very very effective there, ala Neely.

Ideally for the Rangers, they allow him to stick on the 3rd line with a hopefully healthy Chytil and Kakko or other and he takes off. He can play a 4th line role and be effective there as well, but if you ask me - id much rather roll with Cuylle on LW3 than Othmann unless he comes in and blows the doors off with noticeable improvement in skating and defensive/overall awareness.

Regardless, that will be a fun competition and Cuylle is a good bar for Othy to reach for. I dont think you can discount what Will did last year as a rookie.

I’ve wanted to see Cuylle Chytil Kakko since the start of last season.

 

[jay from jersey]

I have more confidence in Cuylle than I do Kakko, to be completely honest.

Same for me…. Kakko seems to fight it on the offensive side of the puck. Cuylle, it seems to come more natural to him. Both aren’t the fastest skaters but Cuylle goes to the net/dirty areas more than Kakko.
He also doesn’t dick around with the puck. If he has an opening, he’s going to shoot

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The Powerplay going ice cold is what got us knocked out 2 years in a row. I don’t care what their ranking was in the regular reason.

Carolina was 2nd in the league somehow but their PP also lost them the series against us it was so bad.

Some players step up in the playoffs (Laf) and some don’t (Zib and Panarin), the rangers being allergic to change and adjustments are a huge problem especially in the playoffs where you need to be bold .

This i agree with.

The regular season and playoffs are completely different animals.

The way i look at it, in a playoff series where you are up against an elimination game or down 2-0 or 2-1 and you desperately need a win Its like a wild card or game 7 in baseball, you empty your bullpen and start throwing starters out there in relief too. Everyone is available and you go with what is rolling.

Laf should have been given a shot on PP1, not only because he had a hot stick, but because you want to light a fire under the guy who is being replaced (Mika). I was screaming for it.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I saw a singer playing MSG this week wore a 24 NYR jersey. I wondered if the 24 was for KK or for the year 2024.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I saw a singer playing MSG this week wore a 24 NYR jersey. I wondered if the 24 was for KK or for the year 2024.

Wow, thats a nice singer

 

[bhamill]

I saw a singer playing MSG this week wore a 24 NYR jersey. I wondered if the 24 was for KK or for the year 2024.

That jersey was on discount...

 

[NickyFotiu]

That jersey was on discount...

LOL hater

 

[bhamill]

LOL hater

you know me...

 

[n8]

I really shook my head when a coach mentioned Will with Cam Neely. Cam was one of the best power forwards I have seen. Crazy to put that out there. I don't know what to expect from Will. His size, speed, shot, and toughness give me a lot of hope but will that ever add up to more than a 3rd liner? He has a lot of tools. Would be great if his offensive upside becomes more than 15-20 goals and 30-40 points. I think its possible because as he gets stronger its possible that shot gets even harder.

I mean I get it. Cam would lay big hits, fight, score goals from the dirty areas. Those are areas you can see the comparisons to Cam with. The big difference is your point. Cam was a razzle dazzle goal scorer. I think Cuylle has flashes but it's really an unfair comparison. Even if he is able to break out and demonstrate that prowess consistently (which is hard for a rookie to demonstrate in one season), he's just not at the same level as Cam. But the style is similar. The output is not.

Cam's first 3 seasons with Vancouver
0.55 p/g
0.54 p/g
0.46 p/g
Then he was traded an became the ppg player we all know him for.

Cuylle season 1 is at 0.26 p/g

I saw a singer playing MSG this week wore a 24 NYR jersey. I wondered if the 24 was for KK or for the year 2024.

It was a Jay Wells jersey.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I mean I get it. Cam would lay big hits, fight, score goals from the dirty areas. Those are areas you can see the comparisons to Cam with. The big difference is your point. Cam was a razzle dazzle goal scorer. I think Cuylle has flashes but it's really an unfair comparison. Even if he is able to break out and demonstrate that prowess consistently (which is hard for a rookie to demonstrate in one season), he's just not at the same level as Cam. But the style is similar. The output is not.

Cam's first 3 seasons with Vancouver
0.55 p/g
0.54 p/g
0.46 p/g
Then he was traded an became the ppg player we all know him for.

Cuylle season 1 is at 0.26 p/g


It was a Jay Wells jersey.

I understand that they both do those things but I just feel Cam was at the elite level doing those things, When Cam was on the ice he was a major factor in so many ways. Will does those things but at a Ford level not a Ferrari level at this time. Can that change? Anything is possible. I would love it because I really respected Cam Neely as a player. Plus Cam was in Dumb & Dumber

 

[n8]

I understand that they both do those things but I just feel Cam was at the elite level doing those things, When Cam was on the ice he was a major factor in so many ways. Will does those things but at a Ford level not a Ferrari level at this time. Can that change? Anything is possible. I would love it because I really respected Cam Neely as a player. Plus Cam was in Dumb & Dumber

The only counterpoint I can make is how was Cam doing at these aspects while in Vancouver? We obviously can't compare rookie Cuylle to Peak Cam. I can't say I remember Cam playing on Vancouver. Only remember having a Canucks trading card (non rookie).

We see lots of players compared to the elites but given the -lite suffix. For example, I think once Getzlaf started to bald, people were starting to compare him to a Messier-lite (minus elbows). So dialing the comparison down to a more reasonable level. I agree, the original comparison is too heavy handed.

 

[haohmaru]

Buch wasn’t traded to make room for Eichel.
He was traded to make room at top 6 RW for Kakko/Kravstov.

That's part of it.

Another big part of it was they had no space to re-sign him either.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The only counterpoint I can make is how was Cam doing at these aspects while in Vancouver? We obviously can't compare rookie Cuylle to Peak Cam. I can't say I remember Cam playing on Vancouver. Only remember having a Canucks trading card (non rookie).

We see lots of players compared to the elites but given the -lite suffix. For example, I think once Getzlaf started to bald, people were starting to compare him to a Messier-lite (minus elbows). So dialing the comparison down to a more reasonable level. I agree, the original comparison is too heavy handed.

This was around 40 years ago so take what I say with a grain of salt. I believe Cam was a big scorer in juniors and a high draft choice. He was a bit of a disappointment in Vancouver. Barry Pederson was a huge scorer in Boston. When the trade was made I was surprised Boston would trade Pederson. Pederson had some sort of injury but I do not remember what it was. Vancouver even threw in a first round draft choice. I thought of Cam as a hitter/fighter 3rd line type guy in Vancouver but since he was playing in Vancouver I only saw him play a few times. Cam was a surprise scorer soon after joining Boston. The better Cam did the worse Pederson seemed to do. I'm not sure what happened to Pederson. I know he had the injury but it seemed like his career went down more than I would have expected.