Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[LOFIN]

It's obvious, that at this point he's not the difference maker he was drafted as. I legit thought he could carry his own line. He was that dominant with TPS during his draft year, and he really took the reigns at the WJC and world championships as well. Sadly, it has not manifested.

That said, I still think he could be a top-6 player in this league, but it does require the right linemates that support his game. That's not happening with the Rangers.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded in the summer. But if he's willing to accept his role as a 3rd liner and sign for a cheapish deal because he's with the NYR, then I could see Drury keeping him around. He's a pretty good player in his current role.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

It's obvious, that at this point he's not the difference maker he was drafted as. I legit thought he could carry his own line. He was that dominant with TPS during his draft year, and he really took the reigns at the WJC and world championships as well. Sadly, it has not manifested.

That said, I still think he could be a top-6 player in this league, but it does require the right linemates that support his game. That's not happening with the Rangers.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded in the summer. But if he's willing to accept his role as a 3rd liner and sign for a cheapish deal because he's with the NYR, then I could see Drury keeping him around. He's a pretty good player in his current role.

Agree with all of this.

I'd still be patient with him, but as much of a Kakko supporter I am - if the right deal (and only the right deal) comes along then it is what it is.

He needs support, no doubt. It would feel weird giving up on him given what his contract will likely be. Hes the type of young big body who a team brings in for a run and it doesn't cost so much. So why move that?

I do long for those TPS days. I dont think ive been more excited to see a player suit up in a Rangers uniform after watching what he did to men/NHL defenseman in the Worlds. He was electric. But hes a shadow of that player now.

 

[noncents]

kid line 2022 was so boss

 

[LOFIN]

I do long for those TPS days. I dont think ive been more excited to see a player suit up in a Rangers uniform after watching what he did to men/NHL defenseman in the Worlds. He was electric. But hes a shadow of that player now.

It's a real shame, he really looked better than any Finnish player at that age coming up to draft (I guess Barkov was arguably better).

It's not even so much the skill, it's just that back then he really was willing to take over those shifts and be the man. Now it's completely gone. Maybe it has been coached out of him, but some of that also falls onto him. At some point he should've stepped up and said, that's enough, I can and will make decisions myself even if my coach doesn't like it.

Skating is a thing he still needs to improve, but the only way for him to become the player he was drafted to be would be for him to man up and take the reins. It's pretty obvious, that it's not really happening anymore. Even if Quinn restrained him, he's now on his second coach after him. If Quinn was able to do permanent damage, that's on the player as well. Sounds rough and kinda counterintuitive for a team sport, but top players need to be a bit of a headcase who aren't willing to take all the shit from coaches at face value.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I think he could still become that player. Too young for me to write off. He definitely is a guy that thrives on confidence. Conversely, Laf has never struggled with that haha.

I think he's finally in the right situation to evolve into that player. DQ tried to neuter him, he clearly hated the kid. Pressure makes diamonds though, I truly think that's what leveled him up so much as a defensive player. Gallant was running a frat house it turned out. Wasn't neutering the kid, but I doubt any coaching and guidance was happening there.

Lavi is the best of all those worlds, I'm more interested to see what he can make of him the next couple of years.

 

[LoveGoons]

Kakko can dominate on a 3rd line.. but for a top pick that isn’t enough.. we need him to dominate on a 2nd line.. “Lafreniere is almost dominating the 2nd line but he need a speed on this line..neither will be 1st line dominant that is the issue for top 3 picks

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

It's a real shame, he really looked better than any Finnish player at that age coming up to draft (I guess Barkov was arguably better).

It's not even so much the skill, it's just that back then he really was willing to take over those shifts and be the man. Now it's completely gone. Maybe it has been coached out of him, but some of that also falls onto him. At some point he should've stepped up and said, that's enough, I can and will make decisions myself even if my coach doesn't like it.

Skating is a thing he still needs to improve, but the only way for him to become the player he was drafted to be would be for him to man up and take the reins. It's pretty obvious, that it's not really happening anymore. Even if Quinn restrained him, he's now on his second coach after him. If Quinn was able to do permanent damage, that's on the player as well. Sounds rough and kinda counterintuitive for a team sport, but top players need to be a bit of a headcase who aren't willing to take all the shit from coaches at face value.

The thing is if even 90% of that player at this level exists in him somewhere, its hard to give up on it.

I think you are right in some ways, about his personality getting the best of him. I mean if he was headstrong he might be off this team all together, years ago, most likely after Gallant sat him for no reason in the last playoff game against the Lightning. That may have been the final straw for most kids.

 

[LionsHeart]

How many of Kakko’s points have come since coming back? Before the injury he looked lost, but since then he looks so much more confident, trusting his shot, and showing a willingness to go to the net. I think he really does miss Chytil, who he was setting up regularly last year and has real chemistry with.

It’s going to be interesting to see what the Rangers do with him in the offseason. I can absolutely see a scenario in which he’s resigned, and another in which he’s traded for a bigger piece.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Kakko can dominate on a 3rd line.. but for a top pick that isn’t enough.. we need him to dominate on a 2nd line.. “Lafreniere is almost dominating the 2nd line but he need a speed on this line..neither will be 1st line dominant that is the issue for top 3 picks

Laf is another story. I dont know. Don't want to hijack the thread but he is kinda already a force on one of the most dangerous lines in the NHL.

Its the 1st offensive line on this team, hands down, without a doubt. And it would be on almost any team in the league. But they continue to call it the 2nd.

 

[LionsHeart]

The thing is if even 90% of that player at this level exists in him somewhere, its hard to give up on it.

I think you are right in some ways, about his personality getting the best of him. I mean if he was headstrong he might be off this team all together, years ago, most likely after Gallant sat him for no reason in the last playoff game against the Lightning. That may have been the final straw for most kids.

I actually think Gallant scratching Kakko was the beginning of the end for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if that didn’t sit right with the locker room.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

How many of Kakko’s points have come since coming back? Before the injury he looked lost, but since then he looks so much more confident, trusting his shot, and showing a willingness to go to the net. I think he really does miss Chytil, who he was setting up regularly last year and has real chemistry with.

It’s going to be interesting to see what the Rangers do with him in the offseason. I can absolutely see a scenario in which he’s resigned, and another in which he’s traded for a bigger piece.

Just posted it:
Since his return - 32 Games:

9G, 4A, 13P +6 49 SOG

Thats a 23G, 10A, 33P over 82

 

[mas0764]

How many of Kakko’s points have come since coming back? Before the injury he looked lost, but since then he looks so much more confident, trusting his shot, and showing a willingness to go to the net. I think he really does miss Chytil, who he was setting up regularly last year and has real chemistry with.

It’s going to be interesting to see what the Rangers do with him in the offseason. I can absolutely see a scenario in which he’s resigned, and another in which he’s traded for a bigger piece.

Since coming back he's been about a 0.4 ppg player. Not as awful as his first 20 games, but, not any better than his last two years. It was not the breakout we were expecting into a 0.5-0.6 ppg player (which, conversely, Laf has done when no one had expectations of him).

I think the important thing to keep in mind is that he is definitely a young developing PF type, they take longer, that he especially is prone to confidence issues, and that the Rangers have done him zero favors in that regard. He's been expected to grow up with tough love when it seems clear to me he's a player who probably needed some individualized coddling (fwiw, I think Kravtsov needed that too). We also need to remember that with a young kid, like Laf, he went from looking awful one minute (playoffs and then preseason) to being a completely different player once the regular season started. Once the switch flipped, it was on. I think Kakko is a shy, introspective player, but I think when the switch flips for him, which it may or may not ever, he could take off. As people have said, he needs to keep improving his skating.

I'm not dumping him for rentals or anything less than a long term (under 26) top 6 staple piece though. Otherwise I'll take my chances that he turns into that.

 

[LoveGoons]

Laf is another story. I dont know. Don't want to hijack the thread but he is kinda already a force on one of the most dangerous lines in the NHL.

Its the 1st offensive line on this team, hands down, without a doubt. And it would be on almost any team in the league. But they continue to call it the 2nd.

It all about the playoffs and unfortunately both of our top lines are really 2nd lines.. but we have players getting paid $$$ like 1st player.. on top of that does any team in the league afraid of our physicality of our top two lines..

 

[bhamill]

It all about the playoffs and unfortunately both of our top lines are really 2nd lines.. but we have players getting paid $$$ like 1st player.. on top of that does any team in the league afraid of our physicality of our top two lines..

The 10-16-13 line has scored as many 5v5 goals as ANY line in the NHL… I don’t get how that can be considered a 2nd. Only MacKinnon’s line has scored as many. Is that a 2nd line as well?

 

[LOFIN]

I'm not dumping him for rentals or anything less than a long term (under 26) top 6 staple piece though.

If Kakko is willing to take another small "prove it" type of a deal to stay in New York, then you absolutely hold on to him. He's a good 3rd liner in his present form.

The 10-16-13 line has scored as many 5v5 goals as ANY line in the NHL… I don’t get how that can be considered a 2nd. Only MacKinnon’s line has scored as many. Is that a 2nd line as well?

We all know the Panarin-Tro-Laf line has been the 1st line since the start of the season. But that doesn't remove the fact that our supposed "1st line" is not good enough. I don't give a f*** about what their GF/GA is, they are supposed to produce and the 3rd and 4th lines are supposed to suppress the opposition.

 

[bhamill]

If Kakko is willing to take another small "prove it" type of a deal to stay in New York, then you absolutely hold on to him. He's a good 3rd liner in his present form.


We all know the Panarin-Tro-Laf line has been the 1st line since the start of the season. But that doesn't remove the fact that our supposed "1st line" is not good enough. I don't give a f*** about what their GF/GA is, they are supposed to produce and the 3rd and 4th lines are supposed to suppress the opposition.

I agree the 93-20- whoever line needs to score more at 5v5. But at least they are still a net positive by a good margin.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I'm excited for him next year, hell even playoffs. Could you imagine if he just potted like 10 or 12 goals on a deep run lol.

But honestly, with all the things being said, I'm excited to see him in hopefully a healthy full season in this environment. I think he's close, but no doubt we still want more.

Only way I'd trade him is if you're bringing back a major major piece. I keep banging that drum of getting Smith from SJ to play with Gabe, but in all honestly in a big deal you're paying a haul to get a gem, that's the only kind of deal I'm putting him in.

Side note, if they ever traded Kakko to SJ to play under DQ again that would be heinous haha.

 

[LOFIN]

I agree the 93-20- whoever line needs to score more at 5v5. But at least they are still a net positive by a good margin.

I know @Machinehead continues to bang on the fact that they are producing more than they are leaking... I just disagree with the premise. f*** the ratios, just score. And let the 3rd and 4th lines stall the opposition offence. If Kreider and Zibanejad are not producing, not good enough for me. I don't give a f*** if they have 400% GF/GA, if that means they score every 10th game 5v5.

 

[n8]

I think he could still become that player. Too young for me to write off. He definitely is a guy that thrives on confidence. Conversely, Laf has never struggled with that haha.

I think he's finally in the right situation to evolve into that player. DQ tried to neuter him, he clearly hated the kid. Pressure makes diamonds though, I truly think that's what leveled him up so much as a defensive player. Gallant was running a frat house it turned out. Wasn't neutering the kid, but I doubt any coaching and guidance was happening there.

Lavi is the best of all those worlds, I'm more interested to see what he can make of him the next couple of years.

Agree. He's such a quiet guy. I do think those two go hand in hand. He needs to cut loose some how. Might just need a Finn buddy on the team but I wouldn't advocate investing in one just in the hopes that Kakko opens up more. Also have to remember that Kakko starting going twice in two years to have his momentum killed by an injury. That's gonna be rough on a young player in this league.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Kakko can dominate on a 3rd line.. but for a top pick that isn’t enough.. we need him to dominate on a 2nd line.. “Lafreniere is almost dominating the 2nd line but he need a speed on this line..neither will be 1st line dominant that is the issue for top 3 picks

Laf is on the 1st line…

 

[bhamill]

I know @Machinehead continues to bang on the fact that they are producing more than they are leaking... I just disagree with the premise. f*** the ratios, just score. And let the 3rd and 4th lines stall the opposition offence. If Kreider and Zibanejad are not producing, not good enough for me. I don't give a f*** if they have 400% GF/GA, if that means they score every 10th game 5v5.

Yes. They need to score ore 5v5.

 

[noncents]

Kakko can dominate on a 3rd line.. but for a top pick that isn’t enough.. we need him to dominate on a 2nd line.. “Lafreniere is almost dominating the 2nd line but he need a speed on this line..neither will be 1st line dominant that is the issue for top 3 picks

tf is this

 

[Peltz]

Kakko scored a nice goal last night and I come here to see everyone down on him.

He's not putting up a game-breaking amount of points, but their record with and without Kakko tells more of a story to me. They're 11-9-1 without him and 38-11-3 with him.

He's making smart plays regularly. Even when he's not getting points, he's good at helping to establish a forecheck which often results in an offensive zone face-off for the next line.

I think he would have become a productive offensive guy if he were on a line with Panarin rather than Laf. He can't carry a line, but none of our young guys can yet.

 

[aufheben]

I know @Machinehead continues to bang on the fact that they are producing more than they are leaking... I just disagree with the premise. f*** the ratios, just score. And let the 3rd and 4th lines stall the opposition offence. If Kreider and Zibanejad are not producing, not good enough for me. I don't give a f*** if they have 400% GF/GA, if that means they score every 10th game 5v5.

I would not like to see more Goodrow-MacKinnon like last night. Scoring more goals than the other team is the only thing that matters.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I want the kid to succeed so much. When he scores Im excited to go look at his stats. Then I see 16 points on the season and I think darn thats like a few good weeks for Bread

The great thing for KK is we are in the playoffs. If KK can have a great playoff most people wont care about the regular season point total.