Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[IDvsEGO]

I agree that it is tough for a young guy but after several seasons it becomes either you do it or you don't. For what it is worth Byfield is producing well now. KK seems like a good kid. The kind of kid I want to succeed as a NYR. With that said its up to KK. If he has a top 6 future he should start excelling on the 3rd line going against 3rd pairing Dmen.

I think he’s looked “fine” against top pair d at times so I’m not too concerned but id agree, he should take over that line offensively.
Wennberg is a good passer, and cuylle and Kakko have shown good chemistry

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think he’s looked “fine” against top pair d at times so I’m not too concerned but id agree, he should take over that line offensively.
Wennberg is a good passer, and cuylle and Kakko have shown good chemistry

The "fine" "at times" is nice but hopefully his production will become more consistent. If not then we will have to be realistic and just view him as a 3rd liner. That is not the end of the world but we all hope for more. I'm not giving up hope for KK to take a step up. Just hope it is soon.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The "fine" "at times" is nice but hopefully his production will become more consistent. If not then we will have to be realistic and just view him as a 3rd liner. That is not the end of the world but we all hope for more. I'm not giving up hope for KK to take a step up. Just hope it is soon.

when I say fine, I mean he doesn’t look like a super star but he’s not bullied or pushed out of position. Which is more than we could ever say about Kratsov.
He does need to produce more, but his defensive game is already one of the best on the team, and as we’ve repeated over the past 2 years ad nauseam if he had more speed his entire game would open up and he’d be a much different/better player

 

[NickyFotiu]

when I say fine, I mean he doesn’t look like a super star but he’s not bullied or pushed out of position. Which is more than we could ever say about Kratsov.
He does need to produce more, but his defensive game is already one of the best on the team, and as we’ve repeated over the past 2 years ad nauseam if he had more speed his entire game would open up and he’d be a much different/better player

Not disagreeing but how much relavance will a team put in not pushed around like Krav or if he had more speed he would be a much better player? Not bashing KK. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. Just have to realistic. Until he does produce consistently he will remain what he is. If KK produces I will be thrilled. I like him and it would be fun to see him thrive.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Not disagreeing but how much relavance will a team put in not pushed around like Krav or if he had more speed he would be a much better player? Not bashing KK. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. Just have to realistic. Until he does produce consistently he will remain what he is. If KK produces I will be thrilled. I like him and it would be fun to see him thrive.

I think he constantly flashes high end level “skills” with his defense and when he wheels around, but he needs to produce, and sometimes that means adding another tool into his toolkit.

 

[bhamill]

Depends on your version of production. Its hard to say a guy is a good player if he can only put up decent production with a couple of guys on the team. Even when we went on our playoff run a few years ago he was not producing that much. Chytil and Laf were almost doubling his production on the same line. I'm not bashing KK. Just being realistic. His production is his production. It can't always be every one else's fault. I do think its often been better for KK to be on a 3rd line facing 3rd pair defensemen.

Well then we can say that about Kreider and Zibs, because they apparently can’t click with anyone else at 5v5, at least as far as production. I guess it’s hard to say they are good players? Sure we can say they outchance the lines they are up against, but so did Cuylle, Brodz, KK.
With KK I think it’s fair to say a rush game just doesn’t really suit him. It’s not that he can only click with a couple of players, it’s that a rush strategy does not utilize his strengths at all.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Well then we can say that about Kreider and Zibs, because they apparently can’t click with anyone else at 5v5, at least as far as production. I guess it’s hard to say they are good players? Sure we can say they outchance the lines they are up against, but so did Cuylle, Brodz, KK.
With KK I think it’s fair to say a rush game just doesn’t really suit him. It’s not that he can only click with a couple of players, it’s that a rush strategy does not utilize his strengths at all.

I don't agree that CK and Zibs can only play with each other. Coaches feel they are a good fit but that doesn't mean they wouldn't score with others. CK played well with Zooks. CK in his prime would be a 20-30 goal guy on any team imo.

 

[RGY]

So very happy Kakko is still here. He is going to be an effective quality 2nd line RW for the majority of his career. Its coming. And i do think he will be an important piece down the stretch and into the playoffs. He is maturing. He is playing more assertive. Thats the big hump to get over. Getting older, gaining confidence, and playing assertive and engaging. Lafreniere is already well into that transition. Kakko will be next. Then Othmann and Berard.

 

[NickyFotiu]

So very happy Kakko is still here. He is going to be an effective quality 2nd line RW for the majority of his career. Its coming. And i do think he will be an important piece down the stretch and into the playoffs. He is maturing. He is playing more assertive. Thats the big hump to get over. Getting older, gaining confidence, and playing assertive and engaging. Lafreniere is already well into that transition. Kakko will be next. Then Othmann and Berard.

Hope so. We need them all.

 

[bhamill]

I don't agree that CK and Zibs can only play with each other. Coaches feel they are a good fit but that doesn't mean they wouldn't score with others. CK played well with Zooks. CK in his prime would be a 20-30 goal guy on any team imo.

They currently aren’t scoring much away from the powerplay. And they NEED to. And they haven’t clicked with anyone since Buch, YEARS ago… But I’m not even really saying they aren’t good players, I’m demonstrating that just because Kakko hasn’t clicked with them it doesn’t mean HE is not a good player. In fact KK’s defensive play, and his numbers last year say he IS a good player. He just had a bad start, and now he’s on a line with two forwards who haven’t clicked with anyone in years. Why we put that on the just turned 23 player rather than the two seasoned vets, who dont click with hardly ANYONE, is a little beyond me.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

They currently aren’t scoring much away from the powerplay. And they NEED to. And they haven’t clicked with anyone since Buch, YEARS ago… But I’m not even really saying they aren’t good players, I’m demonstrating that just because Kakko hasn’t clicked with them it doesn’t mean HE is not a good player. In fact KK’s defensive play, and his numbers last year say he IS a good player. He just had a bad start, and now he’s on a line with two forwards who haven’t clicked with anyone in years. Why we put that on the just turned 23 player rather than the two seasoned vets, who do t click with hardly ANYONE, is a little beyond me.

 

[NickyFotiu]

They currently aren’t scoring much away from the powerplay. And they NEED to. And they haven’t clicked with anyone since Buch, YEARS ago… But I’m not even really saying they aren’t good players, I’m demonstrating that just because Kakko hasn’t clicked with them it doesn’t mean HE is not a good player. In fact KK’s defensive play, and his numbers last year say he IS a good player. He just had a bad start, and now he’s on a line with two forwards who haven’t clicked with anyone in years. Why we put that on the just turned 23 player rather than the two seasoned vets, who do t click with hardly ANYONE, is a little beyond me.

They aren't in their 20s anymore. Their decline in their 30s is not relavant to who they were as players in their 20s. Even in his 30s CK has 34 even strength points and 3 short handed points to go along with his 20 pp points. Kakko has played with a dozen guys in 5 years plus more in last years tournament. His production can't always be everyone elses fault. If it is then he never had any business being the #2 overall pick. I want KK to be great but Im not going along with the dozens of excuses. When he produces he deserves credit but when he doesn't its not fair to blame everyone else.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Going in the right direction

 

[Rongomania]

Going in the right direction

Was a sweet goal, patience and skill. New look PP2 makes me very pleased.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kakko has to get out of his own head, and he needs to skate. 3 times players tried to lead him with passes and he was coasting along. He's his own worst enemy, if he could stop overthinking and just play he would come along a lot quicker

 

[NickyFotiu]

Was a sweet goal, patience and skill. New look PP2 makes me very pleased.

Hope we can get some more out of it. If we do they will see more ice time.

 

[Rongomania]

Hope we can get some more out of it. If we do they will see more ice time.

Really glad he and Wennberg connected game one. That shit matters. The fact that Laf and Ros were out there too is so bad ass.

 

[LOFIN]

Kakko has to get out of his own head, and he needs to skate. 3 times players tried to lead him with passes and he was coasting along. He's his own worst enemy, if he could stop overthinking and just play he would come along a lot quicker

He did that playing with Cuylle. He defers when playing with vets. He’s too humble.

 

[bhamill]

They aren't in their 20s anymore. Their decline in their 30s is not relavant to who they were as players in their 20s. Even in his 30s CK has 34 even strength points and 3 short handed points to go along with his 20 pp points. Kakko has played with a dozen guys in 5 years plus more in last years tournament. His production can't always be everyone elses fault. If it is then he never had any business being the #2 overall pick. I want KK to be great but Im not going along with the dozens of excuses. When he produces he deserves credit but when he doesn't its not fair to blame everyone else.

I’m not saying Kreids and Zibs are not good players, sorry I haven’t made that clearer. And they need to be better at 5v5. I’m not blaming anyone else for Kakko’s lack of production. I’m not saying, in hindsight, that he has lived up to being a number two pick. He hasn’t. I’m saying it’s NOT HARD to say Kakko is a good player. He’s a good player who had a terrible start, got badly injured, and has made a decent comeback, with a lot of runway for improvement. I’m saying the fact that he hasn’t clicked with Kreids and Zibs can hardly be laid at HIS feet, no one has clicked with them for years, that’s more on them than anyone else. THAT’s it. That’s all I’m saying. Hopefully the KK, Wennberg, Cuylle line continues to gel and plays well in the playoffs.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I’m not saying Kreids and Zibs are not good players, sorry I haven’t made that clearer. And they need to be better at 5v5. I’m not blaming anyone else for Kakko’s lack of production. I’m not saying, in hindsight, that he has lived up to being a number two pick. He hasn’t. I’m saying it’s NOT HARD to say Kakko is a good player. He’s a good player who had a terrible start, got badly injured, and has made a decent comeback, with a lot of runway for improvement. I’m saying the fact that he hasn’t clicked with Kreids and Zibs can hardly be laid at HIS feet, no one has clicked with them for years, that’s more on them than anyone else. THAT’s it. That’s all I’m saying. Hopefully the KK, Wennberg, Cuylle line continues to gel and plays well in the playoffs.

Zibs and CK do have to be better for us to go anywhere but will they get better in their 30's? Odds are against it but its possible. I do not blame Zibs for CK's play. I do not blame CK for Zibs play. I do not blame either of them for KK's play nor vice versa. I feel we can look at individuals and judge them individually. KK is a good player. I agree with that but he has not been a good producer outside of last season. 2 seasons ago I was disappointed in KK. Last season I was happy with KK. This season KK took a step back although he is looking much better since returning from his knee injury. My hope for KK is there are more moments where we can say see that is why he was picked #2. He does have those moments every once in a while but they are rare. I do not blame KK for where he was drafted. He can not control that part of his life. I'm just hoping for more. I think most NYR fans are even if they are diehard KK fans. People speak about skating but I'd like to see KK improve his motor and hunger for the puck. You can overcome some issues with pure hustle. Get hungry KK!

 

[3rd Guy High]

Said this on the Laf thread a year ago and I’ll say it here. A lot of people going to be eating crow on this guy.

He’s been on and off injured and yo-yo’d back and forth on lines with coaches (up until Laviolette) and power play merchants who haven’t done a great job mentoring and bringing along young players.

Big rangy, toolsy players like him take a long time to develop. He’s not a super high IQ player ala Fox, Panarin, Lafreniere, nor is he a guy heavy on speed/burner ala Hughes.

Not the same type of player but look at a Kreider for example - he was in the AHL/30-40 point player at 23 years old. Kakko will probably never be a 100 point player. But if he hits 60-80 in his prime as a two way machine - learns how to generate a bit more off the rush in a Rantanen-lite way, and slides into the Kreider position on the PP as Kreider tails off into a role as a third liner as he ages that’s a huge win.

A lot of this is opportunity. He’s been given some of it with Mika/Kreider, but no one really gels with them anyway - I’d place that more on them than Kakko.

 

[lakeshirts37]

any chance he requests a change of scenery soon?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Said this on the Laf thread a year ago and I’ll say it here. A lot of people going to be eating crow on this guy.

He’s been on and off injured and yo-yo’d back and forth on lines with coaches (up until Laviolette) and power play merchants who haven’t done a great job mentoring and bringing along young players.

Big rangy, toolsy players like him take a long time to develop. He’s not a super high IQ player ala Fox, Panarin, Lafreniere, nor is he a guy heavy on speed/burner ala Hughes.

Not the same type of player but look at a Kreider for example - he was in the AHL/30-40 point player at 23 years old. Kakko will probably never be a 100 point player. But if he hits 60-80 in his prime as a two way machine - learns how to generate a bit more off the rush in a Rantanen-lite way, and slides into the Kreider position on the PP as Kreider tails off into a role as a third liner as he ages that’s a huge win.

A lot of this is opportunity. He’s been given some of it with Mika/Kreider, but no one really gels with them anyway - I’d place that more on them than Kakko.

I look at this like a tough parent and easy parent. I expect KK to be a better player than he has been this season. I think his production was ridiculously bad until around Feb. I think it improved a bit in Feb/Mar (6pts in 14 games). Its like a kid who got D's in the first 3 quarters. Should we blame his teachers? His classmates? The weather? Maybe they had a part in it but we still have to let him know we expect him to do better in the 4th quarter. People criticize KK's linemates but then I look at Vesey and Wheeler. Who have they played with? They out produced KK. I want KK to be the guy we all hope he can be. I do still think it is possible but it will not be about his linemates. It will be about him working so hard and producing to a point that the coaches need him out there. I want to see that hunger out of KK. I saw it come with Chytil. I saw it come from Laf. Now I want to see it from KK.

 

[bl02]

Maybe just maybe if he is allowed to gain some chemistry with Cuylle and Wennberg he can hit the 12-14 goal range which is ok considering it would be over 61 games (18 goal pace). Pretty much all at ES.
I Know 5 years ago he was probably the most exciting prospect we've ever seen but it is what it is. He can be a high end third line wing/Decent 2nd line winger putting up 20-25 goals a year mostly at ES.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Maybe just maybe if he is allowed to gain some chemistry with Cuylle and Wennberg he can hit the 12-14 goal range which is ok considering it would be over 61 games (18 goal pace). Pretty much all at ES.
I Know 5 years ago he was probably the most exciting prospect we've ever seen but it is what it is. He can be a high end third line wing/Decent 2nd line winger putting up 20-25 goals a year mostly at ES.

Id be satisfied at 20-25 goals a year.