Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Just like Lias Andersson?

Different issues. Not listening to a player's concerns about his mental health, and refusing to let a player rehab where he wants isn't really something I can defend. The whole "man up" mentality which other organizations have moved on from is hurting this team's chances at success.

But we've been over this, so many times already.

 

[The New Russian Five]

The big thing with Kakko is that he is currently a finesse player inside the body of a power forward. Yes, he has tremendous hands, good vision and above average hockey IQ. But imagine the impact he'd have on the ice if he strategically used his body more and became a true netfront presence who took the goalie's eyes away. This off-season he needs to continue to work on his skating explosiveness and he has to start dedicating himself to playing inside the paint. To do that, he needs to make the inside "his space" and force everyone to take it from him. And he needs to learn that he can be more punishing with his stick to create space from defenders in front.

We need him to drive to the net more. We saw him score a fantastic goal against the Devils doing that and he did it again in Game 1 vs the Pens, but bad reffing got in the way of that one. He needs to do that more.

 

[will1066]

The big thing with Kakko is that he is currently a finesse player inside the body of a power forward. Yes, he has tremendous hands, good vision and above average hockey IQ. But imagine the impact he'd have on the ice if he strategically used his body more and became a true netfront presence who took the goalie's eyes away. This off-season he needs to continue to work on his skating explosiveness and he has to start dedicating himself to playing inside the paint. To do that, he needs to make the inside "his space" and force everyone to take it from him. And he needs to learn that he can be more punishing with his stick to create space from defenders in front.

You don't post enough.

 

[bhamill]

Bingo. He's also not on his ELC anymore either. Training wheels are off.

True, and yet he will still be 21 to start the season...

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Different issues. Not listening to a player's concerns about his mental health, and refusing to let a player rehab where he wants isn't really something I can defend. The whole "man up" mentality which other organizations have moved on from is hurting this team's chances at success.

But we've been over this, so many times already.



Player A: 0.44 P/GP (Henrik Sedin)

Player B: 0.59 P/GP (Sam Reinhart)

Player C: 0.40 P/GP (Jonathan Huberdeau)

Player D: 0.65 P/GP (Kaapo Kakko)

Player E: 0.39 P/GP (Daniel Sedin)

Player F: 0.45 P/GP (James van Riemsdyk)

157 26 32 58 = 0.369 P/GP

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

.

 

[CLW]

The big thing with Kakko is that he is currently a finesse player inside the body of a power forward. Yes, he has tremendous hands, good vision and above average hockey IQ. But imagine the impact he'd have on the ice if he strategically used his body more and became a true netfront presence who took the goalie's eyes away. This off-season he needs to continue to work on his skating explosiveness and he has to start dedicating himself to playing inside the paint. To do that, he needs to make the inside "his space" and force everyone to take it from him. And he needs to learn that he can be more punishing with his stick to create space from defenders in front.

Honestly I think that's what the Rangers want. But people have to be patient.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

D+3 production, as mentioned in the original post

Still not seeing .65 P/GP can you show your work? sorry to be a pain.

 

[duhmetreE]

This org has never been through a 'rebuild'.

We do not know how to develop extremely young and talented players. It's a learning process, just like it is for the kids.

My hope is we continue to improve, as an org, and grow. I do not want Sathers 'yes-men' being here indefinitely and with tenure. Merits and results... not Dolan and Sather friendships.

Kakko will be fine. I see him as a better version of 2022 Nichuskin... eventually.

 

[McRanger92]

True, and yet he will still be 21 to start the season...

Age is just a number when youre making over a million a year

 

[bhamill]

Still not seeing .65 P/GP can you show your work? sorry to be a pain.

Yeah, I get about 0.42 unless I'm missing something. Even that is still in line and he probably played 15 games hurt and ineffective before he was sat for almost the rest of the season.

 

[bhamill]

Age is just a number when youre making over a million a year

What? Now being paid seven figures is a factor in NHL development and experience? That makes ZERO practical sense to me. Hahaha. He will still be 21 and will have played 3 seasons post draft in the NHL where playing time and development was curtailed by circumstances such as COVID and injury. Including the playoffs he has played less than two full NHL seasons worth of games.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The big thing with Kakko is that he is currently a finesse player inside the body of a power forward. Yes, he has tremendous hands, good vision and above average hockey IQ. But imagine the impact he'd have on the ice if he strategically used his body more and became a true netfront presence who took the goalie's eyes away. This off-season he needs to continue to work on his skating explosiveness and he has to start dedicating himself to playing inside the paint. To do that, he needs to make the inside "his space" and force everyone to take it from him. And he needs to learn that he can be more punishing with his stick to create space from defenders in front.

If I could I would try to have him watch clips of Marion Hossa all summer. He could incorporate a lot of Hossa's game in to his own game.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Still not seeing .65 P/GP can you show your work? sorry to be a pain.

Doh. I must have mixed up some things. My bad. Will maybe re-do it when I get home

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah, I get about 0.42 unless I'm missing something. Even that is still in line and he probably played 15 games hurt and ineffective before he was sat for almost the rest of the season.

It is .42. His first 2 seasons were .35

Kaapo Kakko Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Kaapo Kakko. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[bhamill]

It is .42. His first 2 seasons were .35

Kaapo Kakko Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Kaapo Kakko. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Okay. Yeah that's how I see it. But as to AK's point, he's still in line with those other players' D+3 production, and he probably should have been out for injury about 15 games earlier than he was.

 

[McRanger92]

What? Now being paid seven figures is a factor in NHL development and experience? That makes ZERO practical sense to me. Hahaha. He will still be 21 and will have played 3 seasons post draft in the NHL where playing time and development was curtailed by circumstances such as COVID and injury. Including the playoffs he has played less than two full NHL seasons worth of games.

Not what I'm saying. In a salary cap sport, development starts to take a backseat to compensation once a player is off his ELC. Kakko isnt going to have an unlimited runway to reach his potential here.

 

[Fitzy]

This organization has showed a ton of patience with Chytil under similar circumstances.

If that's the standard for forwards good enough to be in the NHL, Kakko should have another year, year and a half to prove he should stay.

 

[McRanger92]

This organization has showed a ton of patience with Chytil under similar circumstances.

If that's the standard for forwards good enough to be in the NHL, Kakko should have another year, year and a half to prove he should stay.

Good point. The one thing I'll add is that Chytil was allowed that time to develop during peacetime. Its war time now, so my personal opinion is that Kakko needs to show us something sooner than later.

 

[m0rkoli]

Ouch, feel sry to lose Kakko.

 

[Crease]

I am starting to see why Gallant was canned by Vegas and Florida despite deep playoff runs.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Okay. Yeah that's how I see it. But as to AK's point, he's still in line with those other players' D+3 production, and he probably should have been out for injury about 15 games earlier than he was.

I'm honestly not worried about the first 3 years. That is the past. I'm looking at year 4. He needs a legitimate jump in year 4 including in games played.

 

[bleedblue94]

It’s not at all revisionist. At all. It’s factual. “He’s a horse.” How many times have we heard that? A power forward doesn’t necessarily mean big hits, but it means he uses his body to force his way where he wants to be or to fend off attackers. And he’s 6’2, 6’3 so yeah he’s big. If you want to have a semantic argument over whether to call him a big power forward I’m not interested.
And yes I get you dont like his arc. And you specifically tie it to him being a 2OA, which frankly is irrelevant at this point except to expectations on how fast he will develop. Not everyone is hung up on the draft position 3 years later. He’s still going to be the player he’s going to be. At this point I just look at the player in the light of what is he going to become and will it benefit the team. Period. Not for a 2OA, because it doesn’t matter now. Sure people use his draft position to bag on him (or on the flip side, over value him) but he’ll still be 21 when the next season starts and he was a solid contributor in an unexpectedly deep playoff run. I’m repeating myself, but under the circumstances I don’t care if it takes a couple of extra seasons. Once again Mika also had an arc that was a failure for a 6OA, under far more optimal circumstances. It happens.

You think he plays a power game in the NHL? you think he forces his way to the areas of the ice he wants to be in, then why is he usually on the wall and unable to drive the net? he did prior to coming to this league but he has not to this point, and when he tries to he doesn't have the strength for it yet. It renders him ineffective bc he hasn't evolved his game and much to the same with panarin if other teams don't respect the shot option then your other options with the puck dry up. How many times has kakko beaten an NHL goalie with a clean shot? Other teams know this too. And if you don't want to argue semantics about the definition of a power forward than don't start the argument.

You think today three years later he is still going to eventually be the player projected to be at the draft? I love when people pluck Mika or other later bloomers out of the air as reason why player X will follow the same arc. Guys like mika that blossom at just shy of 30 are more and more the exception to the rule. They are the rare ones. The modern offensive players are hitting their peaks at 22-26. It's the same silliness as posting stats without names and playing the game of one of these is player X mixed with superstars at the same point, well guess what I can do the same thing with player X and a whole hell of a lot of flame out players that failed to become impact players that also had comparable stats

My issue isn't patience or anything like that, I have plenty of it. My issue is a lack of growth as a player in three years. Laf was growing slowly but you could see it in him in spurts and then he took a big leap the last 3 months. Chytil the same thing where you see spurts in his improved and evolved play. Kakko today looks and plays much like the kakko of 2020 even if every so often he gets a run of 3 points in 10 games and people get excited. There is just virtually no growth to his game or style of play after three years. That's what is alarming to me.

 

[bleedblue94]

Kakko and the other kids work out very hard during the summer months. Hard work and dedication is not the issue. He is following a scientific plyometric training program, with outdoors training, gymwork, ice time, skating lessons, and other sports like badminton/floor ball etc for "off days". And he is building on the NYR's wish to add more "skating and power". The Rangers themselves bulked him up this spring and I'm pretty sure they worked on his skating towards a more power stride. To me the question is more is his current training tailor fit for his current needs and what is the NYR's vision for him? I ask that as most of us see his biggest immediate need as burst speed. But the Rangers want power for physicality so power it is. The Rangers are also asking him to be Jesper Fast right NOW while also wanting him to score more...

Look at Kreider, physical specimen that he is. Kreider is very fast, but he also has a turning radius of 2-3 meters, he is not that nimble on his feet. Kakko's offensive game was always about nimbleness and elusiveness. I feel the Rangers idea/stereotype/vision of how to develop Kakko does not really meet who he is and I've felt that from the very start. And that goes back to what Amazing Kreiderman and many others here have pointed at, the Rangers are cooperate and aloof in their approach rather than meet individuals at where they are and who they are. Toronto, and now Montreal under Gorton's new vision and other clubs (Vancouver etc) are attempting to move away from this old fashioned approach.

Personally I'd model Kakko's training on how (eg) Kaprizov with his agility moves around the ice in the o-zone. Core strength, butt/leg strength, lots and lots of jumps and burst speed/foot speed training this summer is the ticket. Spend the skating lessons primarily on the five first step burst and how to use the hips for power/speed tailored to his personal body build. LOFIN, me and other Finns have been saying for years that while the work the Turku group does in Finland is of high quality *in general*, it lacks the burst/agility part. Rantanen, Kakko and other Finns who follow it look similar coming out of it physically strong yes, but also "square" to a point. Rantanen is physically a moose, but he is also not a greast skater, something he really has worked on this last season at the age of 25. Rantanen has improved noticeably, especially in speed, but he still is wobbly at times.

This is the reason I feel Kakko should work out with Prentiss and the gang, and with the best skating instructor he/they can find.

Where are you getting that they want him to be Jesper fast? And I'm curious where you got the specifics of his training regime?

No one will argue against ANY player working to improve their skating but as I've said his shot is a complete muffin and when other teams don't respect you're shot the entire offensive game become more complicated.

 

[cheech70]

You think he plays a power game in the NHL? you think he forces his way to the areas of the ice he wants to be in, then why is he usually on the wall and unable to drive the net? he did prior to coming to this league but he has not to this point, and when he tries to he doesn't have the strength for it yet. It renders him ineffective bc he hasn't evolved his game and much to the same with panarin if other teams don't respect the shot option then your other options with the puck dry up. How many times has kakko beaten an NHL goalie with a clean shot? Other teams know this too. And if you don't want to argue semantics about the definition of a power forward than don't start the argument.

You think today three years later he is still going to eventually be the player projected to be at the draft? I live when people pluck Mika or other later bloomers out of the air as reason why player X will follow the same arc. Guys like mika that blossom at just shy of 30 are more and more the exception to the rule. They are the rare ones. The modern offensive players are hitting their peaks at 22-26.

My issue isn't patience or anything like that, I have plenty of it. My issue is a lack of growth as a player in three years. Laf was growing slowly but you could see it in him in spurts and then he took a big leap the last 3 months. Kakko today looks and plays much like the kakko of 2020. That's what is alarming to me.

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