LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 16,915
- 23,983
I wasn't quoting your stat per se, but we know his 5v5 production has been disappointing as well no question.
Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko
- Thread starter Krams
- Start date
- Status
Young star players have spent their lives being “the guy.” All these other young players breaking out are “the guys” on their team. Offense goes through them. Big minutes go to them. And outside the Ducks, who could easily regress, none of them are good teams.
It’s not a coincidence these young players aren’t progressing on the same team. It’s cause they’re all part of the same, very unique, situation. It’s a game of confidence and it’s going to take longer to build on a team full of vets running the show with sky high expectations. If they are treated as complimentary players, that’s what they will look like until they rebuild that confidence to be “the guy.”
It’s not a coincidence these young players aren’t progressing on the same team. It’s cause they’re all part of the same, very unique, situation. It’s a game of confidence and it’s going to take longer to build on a team full of vets running the show with sky high expectations. If they are treated as complimentary players, that’s what they will look like until they rebuild that confidence to be “the guy.”
- Apr 16, 2012
- 4,743
- 5,912
Hey. I’m not saying you can’t be disappointed in his production. I’m saying it’s not awful, though yeah I wish he was on a 60 point pace, and I’m good with his OVERALL development as a complete NHLer. And he still has more NHL points than anyone from his draft texcept Hughes. Im not worried. Feel free to worry, I’m not telling you not to. As a player would you trade Kakko for those 9 players that have more points per 60 mins played? Especially since 7 of them are within 0.25, not playing the defensive minutes Kakko is or have anywhere near the possession numbers as him? I mean, yeah I get Hughes, but nobody else for me. Kakko has a better all round game IMO. And I think his production will come. You can believe otherwise. That’s fine.
And yes it’s ridiculous to discount the disruptive effect of COVID. I’ve never suggested it’s the sole reason, but to say it’s not a factor is just a denial of reality. And saying that some don’t seem affected is akin to saying some smokers don’t get lung cancer. It’s non logic. If you can’t grasp that I can’t help you.
And yes it’s ridiculous to discount the disruptive effect of COVID. I’ve never suggested it’s the sole reason, but to say it’s not a factor is just a denial of reality. And saying that some don’t seem affected is akin to saying some smokers don’t get lung cancer. It’s non logic. If you can’t grasp that I can’t help you.
Last edited:
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
We haven't made the playoffs in either of Kakko's first two years, people are acting like he stepped in to some veteran cup contender lineup. Kakko was stapled to the top 6 & PP1 his rookie season and flat out sucked. Lafreniere was stapled to the top 6 from the jump as well. They both started out in the top 6 this season too, and played themselves out of that role. Even way later draft picks who are also on good teams, look way better than Laf & Kakko. It isn't just production, they don't even flash the skill that those other guys do. If the situation was reversed and we were a bad team people would use the excuse that we're a bad team. We're a good team so that means a 2nd overall pick should be on pace for less than 30pts in his D+3 season and a 1st overall pick should be on pace for the same in his D+2
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,009
- 40,722
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 16,915
- 23,983
No he wasn't. 8th in TOI/PG and 6th on PP TOI/PG looking at forwards. Last year Kakko was 6th TOI/PG and 6th PP TOI/PG. And guess what? 6th again from forwards on both categories this year as well.
Ed, yet they can’t get regular minutes on the PP? It is a young team on average age, but the top 5 forwards mins wise are all vets and even Buch couldn’t get on the PP regularly. It’s a very unique situation. It doesn’t excuse their inability to try to fight through it, but it is reality.
Look at the Dcore. There’s Trouba and that was it. It’s why our young D are working. They have to step up. There is no safety net. Or is all that just a coincidence as well?
Look at the Dcore. There’s Trouba and that was it. It’s why our young D are working. They have to step up. There is no safety net. Or is all that just a coincidence as well?
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
By the end of the season you mean? He was force-fed top 6 & PP1 minutes earlier on and played himself out of the role
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 16,915
- 23,983
Yeah, so Kravtsov also played himself out of that role by your logic? Guy was simply a bust and that was that?
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
If the likes of Hughes, Zegras, etc played as bad as Kakko & Laf they'd be pushed off the PP too. Even if they were on the third line that means easier matchups. They still have free will when they step on the ice and if they were able to carry the puck dangling through 3 guys and scoring, they'd do it. Even watching someone like Podkolzin on Vancouver, who isn't producing that much either; it's night and day between him and Laf/Kakko. He looks way better than them. So does Hoglander.
“We develop forwards so poorly.” Hasn’t been many open spots for young guys in top 6.
“We develop defenseman so well.” We’ve had major openings in the top 4 Dcore.
It’s not all just a coincidence. Star players perform better with bigger roles.
“We develop defenseman so well.” We’ve had major openings in the top 4 Dcore.
It’s not all just a coincidence. Star players perform better with bigger roles.
Last edited:
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
Kravtsov started in the bottom 6, you can't argue that Kravtsov has been treated better than Laf/Kakko. In 2019 all the management, beat writers, etc were saying how Kravtsov blew the doors off of camp and was our best player, more impressive than Kakko. But Kakko was handed a spot he didn't deserve because of draft pedigree. Kravtsov started in the bottom 6 and ended up in the top 6 by the end as a matter of fact
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 16,915
- 23,983
Except they weren't pushed off, because there was no one to push them off. That's the benefit of having a shitty team where prospects can develop without pressure.
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
In Kakko's rookie season he was analytically the worst player in the league, anybody could've pushed him off. Look I hope you guys are right and I want to have faith, but I just know that if we were last place in thee league right now and these kids were performing the same way people would use the excuse that our team sucks
That’s fair. Pod and Hogs could be good examples. There have been times Kakko looked excellent too, but it’s just not consistent. I’m simply pointing out why the development arc won’t look like a Hughes or a Zegras. Also overlay the fact that neither of these guys are flashy, speedster types. They are cerebral players. Even in the perfect situation, those types will take longer to develop. Its not “copium” it’s the reality of the situation. That doesn’t mean they will meet their potential, but it is a valid reason why their development will look slower.
Yes and he followed it up with some of the best analytics for an under 21 player since they started tracking the data. That’s what we want to see, progress. I wish it was faster, but the situation is what it is and we just need to hope he still gets there even if the road is longer. On the upside, it will help our cap situation. Maybe that’s part of the master plan, lol.
- Apr 16, 2012
- 4,743
- 5,912
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 16,915
- 23,983
Oh I agree, he was terrible and that is indeed a fact. He has been a different player in his second and third seasons though. The production is still a concern. A big concern no doubt.
Looking at his current play, it's obvious that it's a confidence issue. The question is, how to fix that confidence. Kakko has kinda dwarfed from the guy who pre-draft was the top-dog and took responsibility in driving a line, to now just being a part of a line. That's not how it should be. Partly I accuse DQ of this, with him hushing down Kakko and Laf and making them play mistake free hockey with zero creativity, but he has been gone now for quite some time. It was expected to get better under Gallant, and apart from that stretch with Strome and Panarin before they were broken up it hasn't.
In this instance, I think it's fair to say that on a weaker team where he would have the opportunity (or rather was forced) to be the biggest star in the team, this wouldn't happen. That said, there is no excuse for his current lack of decisiveness. To my mind, he still hasn't been on his comfort-zone. Now he has been on PP1, but as a guy in front of the net when he should be on the right side where Strome is creating plays. When PP2 occasionally did get a chance and managed to settle it down, he looked pretty great there.
He actually had fantastic results on the PP in his rookie season. That started to deteriorate as his time on PP1 lessened. If he were left there, it's not hard to picture a rookie season that looked like something between Jack Hughes' and Tim Stutzle's.
LionsHeart
Registered User
This is the year I was hoping our young forwards took the next leap, and it just isn’t happening. They’ll have a stretch of playing well, then just crater. It’s bizarre to watch. The highs are high, and the lows are abysmal.
Then again he could have a great week next week and we’re all talking about him breaking out like we did 2 weeks ago,
Then again he could have a great week next week and we’re all talking about him breaking out like we did 2 weeks ago,
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,524
- 26,913
It feels like we're never talking about how great Kakko and Laf look. Instead, the discussion is always about whether we should be concerned yet. Not saying they're going to bust, but it hasn't been fun at all so far. Can't believe their ELCs are almost up.
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
- 16,915
- 23,983
So he should walk up to Strome and say f*** off to the center, I'm going to the right side for my natural position?
- Status
