Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part IV

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There have been some comments that players were afraid to make mistakes under Quinn. And he didn’t seem to get much direction in the offensive zone other than go to the net, so he just parked there at times. That should all change now.

Better system + clean slate + drive to improve + newfound confidence (hopefully)

The ingredients are there for a big year.

Yeah, DQ certainly always had a very “you just must do” this or that about him. Like it was easy and the player just needed to get it. Maybe that is the case in college for a top talent like Eichel, and the likes. If they didn’t do what you wanted? Slash their ice time until they started doing it and everything turned out great sooner rather than later.

But playing in the NHL is never easy. If you give Kakko 20 games on the top PP unit instead of Strome last season he would have figured it out, 100%. But after 1 game? 5 games? 10 games? Maybe not, it would have taken patience.
 
You mean there's an NHL coach out there with a different attitude?

Yes, definitely, don’t you?

I actually think that is what really separates the people working with this 24/7 from the rest of us, the understanding of what it really takes to be successful.
 
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I agree about Kakko’s shot. So many younger guys can really pick that top corner, a group that maybe is lead by Elias Petersson. Kucherov has of course always had that ability.

Someone’s shot can be developed. Kakko isn’t a bad shooter and he got a knack for beating goalies. Put them in a tough spot. But in some situations the shots he get of are weak. It’s definitely something he can work on.

Someone referred to Kakko as being a pup his rookie year, something like that, wasn’t familiar with that phrase but it’s perfect. Look, it’s amazing that it doesn’t show more in the NHL but hockey is to a large extent about conditioning. The level I played, mostly 3rd tier hockey in Sweden, some qualifications up and down from that tier and in Finland one year, we were a team that pretended to be a pro team. Training 365 days a year. 14 hour weeks during the summer. Conditioning, conditioning and more conditioning. A coach with the ambition to put the best possible team on the ice every year, albeit getting free sticks to was seen as a very generous salary by the team. Anyway at that level, many talented players never played at “100%” for a game. If they went full speed one shift they would have been gassed the rest of the period almost. I had this one teammate, so taltented. 6’2 210 lbs, really nifty hands and a totally natural skater. We played the Sedins in juniors and experienced how good the best were, he wasn’t 5 tiers below them, maybe 2-3. He trained as hard as the rest of us, harder even, but he was always gassed after 15-20 seconds on a shift. I was often on his line, you knew that it was like night and day if you got Jouni the puck 15 seconds into a shift or 30 seconds into the shift. Looking back at it, he got a lot of knee problems. Sprains etc. Bet that came partly from being gassed and playing when you weren’t 100% in control.

Equipment is lighter today, but my point is just, for someone that isn’t like 1 in 500 of kids playin a sport until they were 18 y/o — getting to the stage where you could play hockey hard for 20 minutes a game at forward and have so much left in the tank that you are close to 100% most of the time — that feels more or less unattainable. It’s something that you think or talk about in terms of, how the heck is it possible?? Running 10km at 45 minutes is nothing, basically anyone can do it after years of training. But getting that hockey shape, that is like running 10km at 30 minutes, it seems unattainable. I could never get there.

Look at someone like Ryan Lindgren and you get the answer. He has so little body fat that he almost looks sick. He used to be fairly beefy, now he looks like this:
upload_2021-7-6_0-42-11.jpeg


Super fit, zero body fat, super light equipment. That is what it takes for these guys, to be able to hit the ice and give 100% for 60.

My point is just, I often get the impression that people comment on kids against the background of what you see is what you will get. That definitely does — not — have to be the case. You can basically not expect anyone to have had time to be a junior star in hockey and develop the physic of some of these NHLers. And what are the results of someone not being at that level? You can’t skate hard for full shifts. When you get gassed, you become weaker, get worse control of your body. Anytime seen a kid that it seems is falling down all the time? Yeah that is a sign of being a bit gassed.

Many were talking about how Kakko couldn’t play defense his rookie year. More than anything he was obviously dead tired often when he was on the ice. You back check despite your legs protesting the entire way, and then makes a clumsy attempt defensively? Yeah those two are connected.

The big relevant question is that if you bring a kid to the NHL when he is 18, how do you develop that kid — while — he is building up his physic? Because he won’t be there for the regular shift 20 minutes a night. You either stach him away for a minor role for 2-3 years and hope that he can pick it up once he gets a big role in the future or you invest in the kid and give him the offensive minutes he can handle and the rest that he needs in other areas.
 
Yes, definitely, don’t you?

I actually think that is what really separates the people working with this 24/7 from the rest of us, the understanding of what it really takes to be successful.

Do you have a list of coaches who don't demand that his players follow his specific instructions?
 
I agree about Kakko’s shot. So many younger guys can really pick that top corner, a group that maybe is lead by Elias Petersson. Kucherov has of course always had that ability.

Someone’s shot can be developed. Kakko isn’t a bad shooter and he got a knack for beating goalies. Put them in a tough spot. But in some situations the shots he get of are weak. It’s definitely something he can work on.

Someone referred to Kakko as being a pup his rookie year, something like that, wasn’t familiar with that phrase but it’s perfect. Look, it’s amazing that it doesn’t show more in the NHL but hockey is to a large extent about conditioning. The level I played, mostly 3rd tier hockey in Sweden, some qualifications up and down from that tier and in Finland one year, we were a team that pretended to be a pro team. Training 365 days a year. 14 hour weeks during the summer. Conditioning, conditioning and more conditioning. A coach with the ambition to put the best possible team on the ice every year, albeit getting free sticks to was seen as a very generous salary by the team. Anyway at that level, many talented players never played at “100%” for a game. If they went full speed one shift they would have been gassed the rest of the period almost. I had this one teammate, so taltented. 6’2 210 lbs, really nifty hands and a totally natural skater. We played the Sedins in juniors and experienced how good the best were, he wasn’t 5 tiers below them, maybe 2-3. He trained as hard as the rest of us, harder even, but he was always gassed after 15-20 seconds on a shift. I was often on his line, you knew that it was like night and day if you got Jouni the puck 15 seconds into a shift or 30 seconds into the shift. Looking back at it, he got a lot of knee problems. Sprains etc. Bet that came partly from being gassed and playing when you weren’t 100% in control.

Equipment is lighter today, but my point is just, for someone that isn’t like 1 in 500 of kids playin a sport until they were 18 y/o — getting to the stage where you could play hockey hard for 20 minutes a game at forward and have so much left in the tank that you are close to 100% most of the time — that feels more or less unattainable. It’s something that you think or talk about in terms of, how the heck is it possible?? Running 10km at 45 minutes is nothing, basically anyone can do it after years of training. But getting that hockey shape, that is like running 10km at 30 minutes, it seems unattainable. I could never get there.

Look at someone like Ryan Lindgren and you get the answer. He has so little body fat that he almost looks sick. He used to be fairly beefy, now he looks like this:
View attachment 451386

Super fit, zero body fat, super light equipment. That is what it takes for these guys, to be able to hit the ice and give 100% for 60.

My point is just, I often get the impression that people comment on kids against the background of what you see is what you will get. That definitely does — not — have to be the case. You can basically not expect anyone to have had time to be a junior star in hockey and develop the physic of some of these NHLers. And what are the results of someone not being at that level? You can’t skate hard for full shifts. When you get gassed, you become weaker, get worse control of your body. Anytime seen a kid that it seems is falling down all the time? Yeah that is a sign of being a bit gassed.

Many were talking about how Kakko couldn’t play defense his rookie year. More than anything he was obviously dead tired often when he was on the ice. You back check despite your legs protesting the entire way, and then makes a clumsy attempt defensively? Yeah those two are connected.

The big relevant question is that if you bring a kid to the NHL when he is 18, how do you develop that kid — while — he is building up his physic? Because he won’t be there for the regular shift 20 minutes a night. You either stach him away for a minor role for 2-3 years and hope that he can pick it up once he gets a big role in the future or you invest in the kid and give him the offensive minutes he can handle and the rest that he needs in other areas.

well said. so glad we didn't give Kakko those exhausting pp minutes where shot selection, decision making, and offensive confidence could all be actively trained in real time.
 
well said. so glad we didn't give Kakko those exhausting pp minutes where shot selection, decision making, and offensive confidence could all be actively trained in real time.

Beyond f*cking irritating. I understand not wanting to give 19 year olds 20 mins per game, but there was no reason a 2nd overall couldn't handle 17-19 per game. Glad DQ is gone. Hope Kakko crushes shit this year.
 
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Beyond f*cking irritating. I understand not wanting to give 19 year olds 20 mins per game, but there was no reason a 2nd overall couldn't handle 17-19 per game. Glad DQ is gone. Hope Kakko crushes shit this year.
There's literally 1 spot where you can play a kid in.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think any coach, including gallant, is going to play kakko.over panarin, Mika, fox or kreider.

Those 4 are guaranteed spots.

That last spot should NOT go to kakko. It should go to lafreniere or buch.
 
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There's literally 1 spot where you can play a kid in.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think any coach, including gallant, is going to play kakko.over panarin, Mika, fox or kreider.

Those 4 are guaranteed spots.

That last spot should NOT go to kakko. It should go to lafreniere or buch.

My problem wasn't Kakko being on the 2nd unit, it's that the 2nd unit only played 10-15 seconds. And no, that wasn't because of momentum. There were plenty of powerplays where the opponents dumped the puck halfway through and they still stuck with PP1.

Quinn never even started PP2 like other coaches do. That was the real issue with the PP.
 
My problem wasn't Kakko being on the 2nd unit, it's that the 2nd unit only played 10-15 seconds. And no, that wasn't because of momentum. There were plenty of powerplays where the opponents dumped the puck halfway through and they still stuck with PP1.

Quinn never even started PP2 like other coaches do. That was the real issue with the PP.
Came here to post this. I mean even if we don't make any moves during this off season (which I don't think is going to happen), we can create two pretty good PP units. #1 should be up there with skill among the top teams in league, but not like we would have a bunch of nobodies in the 2nd unit.

Kreider
Panarin - Zib - Buch
Fox

Kravtsov
Laf - Strome/Chytil - Kakko
Trouba/Lundkvist
 
There's literally 1 spot where you can play a kid in.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think any coach, including gallant, is going to play kakko.over panarin, Mika, fox or kreider.

Those 4 are guaranteed spots.

That last spot should NOT go to kakko. It should go to lafreniere or buch.

You are right a lot here.

What I disagree with is, some nights, Kakko looked better than all of them and got zero more minutes than he usually got. That fact I disagreed with.
 
Lafreniere has to play on pp1. Honestly don't even care at who's expense (yes I understand Fox, Zibby, Panarin are locks). If I see him getting the last 15 seconds of pp2 time it's gonna be super frustrating.
Would love to see Kakko getting more than the few seconds of a pp but I know it's gonna be harder for him to get first unit time.
 
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My problem wasn't Kakko being on the 2nd unit, it's that the 2nd unit only played 10-15 seconds. And no, that wasn't because of momentum. There were plenty of powerplays where the opponents dumped the puck halfway through and they still stuck with PP1.

Quinn never even started PP2 like other coaches do. That was the real issue with the PP.

Because PP2s are worse than PP1s so it does not make sense to start them unless the PP1 players were just on the ice. the TB PP2 has 0 PP goals this playoff. You don't see people asking to play them more. And sure you can say they are going for a SC and trying to win, not develop players, but when Quinn/Gallant/whoever is coaching the Rangers he is also going all out to win the game and not playing young players just because they are young players. If they need that role and ice time that is what Hartford is for.

For the sake of reference here are some numbers from this past season comparing PP1 to PP2 using a proxy.

Leaguewide PP1 - 7.7 G/60
Leaguewide PP2 - 5.2 G/60

Only four teams had a PP1 score worse than the league average PP2 (OTT/NJ/DET/ANA). So why, as a coach, would you play them when on average if you put out the PP2 it will perform like the worst top unit in the league?
 
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Came here to post this. I mean even if we don't make any moves during this off season (which I don't think is going to happen), we can create two pretty good PP units. #1 should be up there with skill among the top teams in league, but not like we would have a bunch of nobodies in the 2nd unit.

Kreider
Panarin - Zib - Buch
Fox

Kravtsov
Laf - Strome/Chytil - Kakko
Trouba/Lundkvist
Looks like a lot of the same cast of characters from PP2 last year, which was very bad.
 
As is the nature of a second unit.
I know the first unit should get most of the PP opportunities. That's what it is. But, that doesn't mean they should get 90% of it, especially if they are not producing.

Like if they have had 3 chances and it's clearly not working at all, maybe start the 2nd unit? Or get the 2nd unit out there when they still have an offensive zone draw with 45 seconds left. Or maybe, if it gets dumped the 3rd time in the 1st minute, let the 2nd unit try.
 
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I know the first unit should get most of the PP opportunities. That's what it is. But, that doesn't mean they should get 90% of it, especially if they are not producing.

Like if they have had 3 chances and it's clearly not working at all, maybe start the 2nd unit? Or get the 2nd unit out there when they still have an offensive zone draw with 45 seconds left. Or maybe, if it gets dumped the 3rd time in the 1st minute, let the 2nd unit try.
This isn't 7th grade soccer.
 
Because PP2s are worse than PP1s so it does not make sense to start them unless the PP1 players were just on the ice. the TB PP2 has 0 PP goals this playoff. You don't see people asking to play them more. And sure you can say they are going for a SC and trying to win, not develop players, but when Quinn/Gallant/whoever is coaching the Rangers he is also going all out to win the game and not playing young players just because they are young players. If they need that role and ice time that is what Hartford is for.

For the sake of reference here are some numbers from this past season comparing PP1 to PP2 using a proxy.

Leaguewide PP1 - 7.7 G/60
Leaguewide PP2 - 5.2 G/60

Only four teams had a PP1 score worse than the league average PP2 (OTT/NJ/DET/ANA). So why, as a coach, would you play them when on average if you put out the PP2 it will perform like the worst top unit in the league?

Well, this. We've seen it so many times. We get a PP when the top PP guys have already been on the ice for a minute and we still stick with PP1. Look at Montreal this season, where Burrows said this about the PP:

“For me, internally we haven’t talked about a first or a second unit,” Burrows said. “We have two units that can have some success. That’s the way I see it. We keep internal competition between both units. Whichever unit’s fresher probably will be the first one going out.

“We have a left-handed centreman (Kotkaniemi) and a right-handed centreman (Suzuki) on the the other unit, so it gives us both options on matchups, what the other team PK’s centre looks like and that kind of stuff,” Burrows added. “There’a lot of things that goes into it. But I think for both units I’ve kept it pretty simple since Day 1. We have a different plan and we have this wolf-pack mentality that we can strike from anywhere. We can strike from the low plays, we can strike with shots from the top, we can shoot from the flanks, we converge towards rebounds. That’s the way I see it. But for some reasons, the KK — or the Jeff unit I call it — they’re having some bounces right now. Corey’s doing an excellent job net-front, screening the goalies. KK looks fresh, they’re moving the puck the right way. They’re executing everything. At the end of the day, they play, they hold the sticks. So I have the plan in place for both units. Right now one’s clicking more than the other. But I’m not worried.”

When the PP struggled for a month did Quinn change anything? No. He changed everything at even strength 17 times a game, but the PP was unchanged for over a month despite it struggling immensely. We never started PP2, even when the PP1 guys had been on the ice when the penalty was drawn. We never tried something new. No, we just had to wait a f***ing month for things to magically fall into place just to hear Quinn say "Well, we fixed it".

I am not saying PP2 should start 50% of our powerplays but what went on with the Rangers this season was just bad in so many ways.
 
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Lafreniere has to play on pp1. Honestly don't even care at who's expense (yes I understand Fox, Zibby, Panarin are locks). If I see him getting the last 15 seconds of pp2 time it's gonna be super frustrating.
Would love to see Kakko getting more than the few seconds of a pp but I know it's gonna be harder for him to get first unit time.

It’s Kakko or Strome on the top PP unit. Kakko is a once in a century talent for this team, the fact that we got another one the year after doesn’t change that.

Laf is harder to fit on the top PP unit since his natural position is in Panarin’s position.

I am not against splitting Ziba and Panarin and having two more even PP units. Many teams have had that over the years, but it was more common in the past. Especially if Lundkvist is on the roster. Could have:

Chytil-Kakko
Panarin-Fox-Strome

Kreider-Ziba
Laf-Lundkvist-Buch
 
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It’s Kakko or Strome on the top PP unit. Kakko is a once in a century talent for this team, the fact that we got another one the year after doesn’t change that.

Laf is harder to fit on the top PP unit since his natural position is in Panarin’s position.

I am not against splitting Ziba and Panarin and having two more even PP units. Many teams have had that over the years, but it was more common in the past. Especially if Lundkvist is on the roster. Could have:

Chytil-Kakko
Panarin-Fox-Strome

Kreider-Ziba
Laf-Lundkvist-Buch
¸I think with the insane amount of talented players the rangers have (being forced to have your 1st and 2nd overall on the second unit) they absolutely could hve two lethal pp that could take advantage of the second PK or different matchups based on playstyle, opposite centerman etc. Barzal was on the 2nd unit of the pp for long stretches in ny this year.
 
Do you have a list of coaches who don't demand that his players follow his specific instructions?

That is not what I said.

Sometimes a kid needs time to play a way the coach wants.

Why didn’t Kakko play on the top PP unit over Strome?
 
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