Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part IV

[Harbour Dog]

I think that because Kakko is so good on the boards, we tend to overlook that he's also creating a bunch of dangerous scoring chances.

He's 4th among our forwards in HDCF%.

 

[bl02]

I think that because Kakko is so good on the boards, we tend to overlook that he's also creating a bunch of dangerous scoring chances.

He's 4th among our forwards in HDCF%.

Not trying to be obtuse but when does that equate to more than two assists? He’s not really playing with a bunch of schleps.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Not trying to be obtuse but when does that equate to more than two assists? He’s not really playing with a bunch of schleps.

Obviously we all want him to have more points. I just think that we're nitpicking his play, because he isn't getting them. He has been absolutely fantastic, just not finishing himself, and having to watch his teammates miss chances all too frequently. I'm also struck with the idea that he isn't in the centre of the ice enough, but the numbers don't suggest that, and I think it may just be a bias that's created by how amazing he is on the boards.

His shot is the only aspect of his game that stands out as something he could immediately improve.

This isn't an argument that I would make for Lafreniere. He's clearly better than Kakko was last year, but he still has a bunch of areas he could improve quickly.

But Kakko has been a force on both ends of the puck; just needs a little more luck and some tweaks to his shot/shot selection. Along with the natural progression that a kid with his ability is going to have, of course.

 

[bl02]

Obviously we all want him to have more points. I just think that we're nitpicking his play, because he isn't getting them. He has been absolutely fantastic, just not finishing himself, and having to watch his teammates miss chances all too frequently. I'm also struck with the idea that he isn't in the centre of the ice enough, but the numbers don't suggest that, and I think it may just be a bias that's created by how amazing he is on the boards.

His shot is the only aspect of his game that stands out as something he could immediately improve.

This isn't an argument that I would make for Lafreniere. He's clearly better than Kakko was last year, but he still has a bunch of areas he could improve quickly.

But Kakko; he has been a force on both ends of the puck; just needs a little more luck and some tweaks to his shot/shot selection. Along with the natural progression that a kid with his ability is going to have, of course.

I’m ok seeing what the rest of the season produces especially if we are healthy and he’s playing with decent linemates and/or getting mismatches. One would think the current third line kid line should get some mismatches?
If he winds up putting 10-12 points by end of the year I just will find it hard to make excuses.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I’m ok seeing what the rest of the season produces especially if we are healthy and he’s playing with decent linemates and/or getting mismatches. One would think the current third line kid line should get some mismatches?
If he winds up putting 10-12 points by end of the year I just will find it hard to make excuses.

If he keeps playing as well as he is, I probably won't haha.

But let's hope he finishes closer to 20 than 10!

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I think that because Kakko is so good on the boards, we tend to overlook that he's also creating a bunch of dangerous scoring chances.

He's 4th among our forwards in HDCF%.

His play and feed to Laf on the PP last game was beautiful. If not for the hesitancy on the shot it’s going in.

 

[Harbour Dog]

His play and feed to Laf on the PP last game was beautiful. If not for the hesitancy on the shot it’s going in.

It would be really nice to see him getting more PP TOI.

I see the player that Quinn has steered him toward 5v5, and I have no complaints at this point; but you gotta think that the PP would be the perfect opportunity for him and Lafreniere to figure out their creativity at this level.

And this is just magnified by how shitty our PP1 has been for most of the season.

 

[Synergy27]

His play and feed to Laf on the PP last game was beautiful. If not for the hesitancy on the shot it’s going in.

Are you talking about the play where he inexplicably chose to not just put the puck into the gaping wide open net that was presented to him?

 

[Synergy27]

I think that because Kakko is so good on the boards, we tend to overlook that he's also creating a bunch of dangerous scoring chances.

He's 4th among our forwards in HDCF%.

Honest question here. HDCF% = High Danger Corsi For Percentage, correct? So this is the ratio of high danger chances for the Rangers vs. for the opponent while he is on the ice, correct?

Is it safe to assume (I legitimately don't know, I am asking the question), that the team's HDCF% overall is < 50% (i.e., we give up more HD chances than we create)? So, on a team like this, being the best one on the team might not automatically = "good" because the team overall is not good, right? Again, not saying that this is the case for Kakko and the Rangers, just that it's possible for this stat to work this way.

Where does Kakko rank league wide in this measure?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Honest question here. HDCF% = High Danger Corsi For Percentage, correct? So this is the ratio of high danger chances for the Rangers vs. for the opponent while he is on the ice, correct?

Is it safe to assume (I legitimately don't know, I am asking the question), that the team's HDCF% overall is < 50% (i.e., we give up more HD chances than we create)? So, on a team like this, being the best one on the team might not automatically = "good" because the team overall is not good, right? Again, not saying that this is the case for Kakko and the Rangers, just that it's possible for this stat to work this way.

Where does Kakko rank league wide in this measure?

You are generally correct. I had the same thought and checked it earlier. Among all forwards league wide who have played 180 min or more (total data set = 358 players or roughly 11.5 / team or all full time forwards) he is 199th. Puts him at “3.8th” best on each team, on average or the 67th percentile. Good 2nd liner in that regard.

Most impressive thing to me from an advanced stats metric is Kakko’s total xGF% of 56.5%, 53rd in the league among forwards or the 85th percentile. This is due to him being a really good defensive player so far...55th best player in expected goals against or 85th percentile. His offense via expected goals is still good but not as good...91st or 74th percentile.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Honest question here. HDCF% = High Danger Corsi For Percentage, correct? So this is the ratio of high danger chances for the Rangers vs. for the opponent while he is on the ice, correct?

Is it safe to assume (I legitimately don't know, I am asking the question), that the team's HDCF% overall is < 50% (i.e., we give up more HD chances than we create)? So, on a team like this, being the best one on the team might not automatically = "good" because the team overall is not good, right? Again, not saying that this is the case for Kakko and the Rangers, just that it's possible for this stat to work this way.

Where does Kakko rank league wide in this measure?

That is exactly what it is, yup.

Rangers = 50.75%
Kakko = 55%

I think the main flaw with these stats is if you use how much better he is than the team average (relative stats), because then he looks better based on how shitty a player like Howden's metrics are. But by simply saying he's 4th on the team in the stat, then it leaves the interpretation more open.

Even just the raw number 55% is pretty damn good though. League-wide, among forwards that have played at least 10 games, it puts him at 102nd.

I'm not surprised that his PDO is one of the worst on the team though. That normally indicates bad luck, which I'm sure it still does to a point, but he also doesn't pick his spots or shoot as well as the average NHLer.

I also just had the thought that maybe he is playing very low-event hockey, where neither team creates many high danger chances when he is on the ice, but I checked and he is also 4th on the team in HDCF/60; so it isn't that.

 

[Synergy27]

That is exactly what it is, yup.

Rangers = 50.75%
Kakko = 55%

I think the main flaw with these stats is if you use how much better he is than the team average (relative stats), because then he looks better based on how shitty a player like Howden's metrics are. But by simply saying he's 4th on the team in the stat, then it leaves the interpretation more open.

Even just the raw number 55% is pretty damn good though. League-wide, among forwards that have played at least 10 games, it puts him at 102nd.

I'm not surprised that his PDO is one of the worst on the team though. That normally indicates bad luck, which I'm sure it still does to a point, but he also doesn't pick his spots or shoot as well as the average NHLer.

I also just had the thought that maybe he is playing very low-event hockey, where neither team creates many high danger chances when he is on the ice, but I checked and he is also 4th on the team in HDCF/60; so it isn't that.

Thanks for this. I think that's a pretty encouraging look.

 

[True Blue]

Here's a f***in crazy thing: gonna blow your mind with this one. You can work out at home.

And with his connections, he probably hasn't had to pay for a single piece of equipment in years.

Dude, you are literally degenerating before the eyes.

Here is a mind boggling thing that is going to come as a huge surprise to you. While working out at home with dumbbells' is fine and dandy for the average joe, it is NOT the case for professional friggin' athletes. Oh, and have we mentioned that he did not actually play hockey for 10 months, let alone not hit a squat rack?

 

[Machinehead]

Dude, you are literally degenerating before the eyes.

Here is a mind boggling thing that is going to come as a huge surprise to you. While working out at home with dumbbells' is fine and dandy for the average joe, it is NOT the case for professional friggin' athletes. Oh, and have we mentioned that he did not actually play hockey for 10 months, let alone not hit a squat rack?

Nobody said it would mimic an NHL training regiment. That's why everyone who mentioned it specifically mentioned strength training.

You just come into threads to spew venom and never actually listen to anything.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Honest question here. HDCF% = High Danger Corsi For Percentage, correct? So this is the ratio of high danger chances for the Rangers vs. for the opponent while he is on the ice, correct?

Is it safe to assume (I legitimately don't know, I am asking the question), that the team's HDCF% overall is < 50% (i.e., we give up more HD chances than we create)? So, on a team like this, being the best one on the team might not automatically = "good" because the team overall is not good, right? Again, not saying that this is the case for Kakko and the Rangers, just that it's possible for this stat to work this way.

Where does Kakko rank league wide in this measure?

As a team the Rangers are at 50.75 HDCF% which is 15th in the NHL. He's at 55% HDCF%.

Edit: I see Harbour Dog explained it already lol.

 

[True Blue]

Nobody said it would mimic and NHL training regiment. That's why everyone who mentioned it specifically mentioned strength training.

You just come into threads to spew venom and never actually listen to anything.

Having done real strength training before, I have yet to find a home gym that can equate with being at a real one. Not saying they do not exist, but are fairly rare. At least in my experinece. I am sure that the calls that people have recreated Rogue in their basements will start to file in.

Anyway, this is not venom. This is a reality check. You keep on trying to equate Lafreneire with previous top picks. I am pointing out to you that you cannot do that. Not this year. Not with a kid who went 10 months with no training and no getting on the ice aside from a back yard rink for a few months. To ignore the effects that this would have on a 19 year old kid, seems to be pretty disingenuous.

 

[Machinehead]

Having done real strength training before, I have yet to find a home gym that can equate with being at a real one. Not saying they do not exist, but are fairly rare. At least in my experinece. I am sure that the calls that people have recreated Rogue in their basements will start to file in.

Anyway, this is not venom. This is a reality check. You keep on trying to equate Lafreneire with previous top picks. I am pointing out to you that you cannot do that. Not this year. Not with a kid who went 10 months with no training and no getting on the ice aside from a back yard rink for a few months. To ignore the effects that this would have on a 19 year old kid, seems to be pretty disingenuous.

Except nobody is doing this. All that was said is that he had more time with the lockdown to focus on other areas of physical development. You blew a gasket about gyms being closed.

 

[True Blue]

Except nobody is doing this. All that was said is that he had more time with the lockdown to focus on other areas of physical development. You blew a gasket about gyms being closed.

That's a part of the point. In a lockdown in both the US and Canada, calming that he had time to focus on physical development is silly. Why? Because everything was shut down. There were no gyms to be had. And that feeds to why you cannot compare the circumstances of how he came into the league to other former 1OA picks. The kid could not get on the ice. He could do nothing except air squats and push ups. Good for regular people. Not so much for professional athletes. So no, it was impossible to focus on other areas of physical development. Most 19 year olds do not have a fully functioning gym in their parents basement.

 

[Machinehead]

That's a part of the point. In a lockdown in both the US and Canada, calming that he had time to focus on physical development is silly. Why? Because everything was shut down. There were no gyms to be had. And that feeds to why you cannot compare the circumstances of how he came into the league to other former 1OA picks. The kid could not get on the ice. He could do nothing except air squats and push ups. Good for regular people. Not so much for professional athletes. So no, it was impossible to focus on other areas of physical development. Most 19 year olds do not have a fully functioning gym in their parents basement.

Right. Every pundit who said this was just making shit up.

 

[True Blue]

Right. Every pundit who said this was just making shit up.

When one of those pundits can show a single gym that was open, I will be impressed. Like I said, Kreider could not train with Prentiss but Lafreniere somehow got access to an underground fully functioning rink and gym. Right. Makes perfect sense.

One also needs to think that at the time the so-called pundits were speaking perhaps they believed that the lockdowns would soon be over and just that with the season being pushed back, he would be able to get the access he desperately needed. But that did not happen.

As it was against the law to have an open gym, I am going with the fact that neither Lafreniere nor the Rangers nor any gym owner were taking any chances.

 

[Machinehead]

When one of those pundits can show a single gym that was open, I will be impressed. Like I said, Kreider could not train with Prentiss but Lafreniere somehow got access to an underground fully functioning rink and gym. Right. Makes perfect sense.

One also needs to think that at the time the so-called pundits were speaking perhaps they believed that the lockdowns would soon be over and just that with the season being pushed back, he would be able to get the access he desperately needed. But that did not happen.

As it was against the law to have an open gym, I am going with the fact that neither Lafreniere nor the Rangers nor any gym owner were taking any chances.

This is so f***ing pedantic. It's a simple observation that takes nothing away from the difficulties Laf has dealt with and you're giving birth over it.

 

[Chytilmania]

Dude, you are literally degenerating before the eyes.

Here is a mind boggling thing that is going to come as a huge surprise to you. While working out at home with dumbbells' is fine and dandy for the average joe, it is NOT the case for professional friggin' athletes. Oh, and have we mentioned that he did not actually play hockey for 10 months, let alone not hit a squat rack?

Kakko posted a picture in the gym. I don't think he went long without a squat rack and decent workout but I could be wrong.

 

[Chytilmania]

For argument's sake we'll say neither Kakko or Laf hit the gym until end of summer. What about everyone else in the league? There are plenty of skaters 21 and younger who are putting up points under the same circumstances.

I won't speak for Prentiss because I'm not sure of his situation but I know of a particular facility who trains loads of NFL players and a few NHL guys who stayed open but hid from social media. Someone like Kreider or experienced vets could very well have home gyms where their teammates could have trained.

 

[True Blue]

Kakko posted a picture in the gym. I don't think he went long without a squat rack and decent workout but I could be wrong.

I cannot speak for what was going on in Finland, but think that the Scandinavian countries were more open than US & Canada.

For argument's sake we'll say neither Kakko or Laf hit the gym until end of summer. What about everyone else in the league? There are plenty of skaters 21 and younger who are putting up points under the same circumstances.

Many players did not also go for 10 months without playing like Lafreneire did. As I do not see Kakko as an issue at all, in his case there is nothing to respond to.

I won't speak for Prentiss because I'm not sure of his situation but I know of a particular facility who trains loads of NFL players and a few NHL guys who stayed open but hid from social media. Someone like Kreider or experienced vets could very well have home gyms where their teammates could have trained.

If there was a hidden gym that trained professional athletes, that would be news to me. Not shocking, but certainly news. That does not change the fact that it was against the law to do so and would have faced serious repercussions if caught.

Whereas a multi millionaire like Kreider could have a fully functioning home gym, I tend to believe that an NHL rookie does not.

 

[True Blue]

This is so f***ing pedantic. It's a simple observation that takes nothing away from the difficulties Laf has dealt with and you're giving birth over it.

Because it is ashine to paint him with the same brush as previous picks as his situation is unprecedented.