Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part II

[NernieBichols]

Ratanen.

That is all

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Ratanen.

That is all

He's from Finland too!

/thread

 

[ThirdEye]

Panarin having a monster season has kind of distracted us from Kakko being underwhelming thus far. It'd be disingenuous to say he hasn't been disappointing

The skill is clearly there, but the adjustment period is going to be much longer than we thought

 

[Inferno]

Kakko shows flashes of brilliance mixed in with a complete and utter lack of understanding of how to play the NHL game.

In short he's looked more or less like I thought he would

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Nah, thats a cop out. Plenty of non-generational players looked good at 18. Hischier is one. Nugent Hopkins, Landeskog, Skinner. None are generational or even elite.

Damn. Can't believe the season is over already. That was fast!

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

So he's doing ok for a far less good player than we hoped for?

I think that's what people are saying.

We made 2 huge signings in the summer which was supported by the fan base because they felt we were pretty close after getting the missing link in Kakko.

And if he's not, were the signings ok?

Why isn't having a good player having him learn to be good? Now having a elite Russian isn't enough. People are talking about bringing in Finns to make him look happy

Is it ok that we probably will end up picking outside the top 10 this year?
.
Whats the real story here?

The real story is you're getting your panties in a bunch after less than 3 months of hockey and coming awfully close to declaring an 18 year old Kakko a bust, which is ridiculous. He was never meant to carry this team in the immediate future. I don't know where you came up with that, but its leading to a very bad opinion.

 

[will1066]

The kid is going to bust out in the second half. Book it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Panarin having a monster season has kind of distracted us from Kakko being underwhelming thus far. It'd be disingenuous to say he hasn't been disappointing

The skill is clearly there, but the adjustment period is going to be much longer than we thought

This is a much more level headed approach to the situation. I think it's too early to say if Kakko has trouble processing the game at the NHL level. That'd be a much bigger problem. The immediate problem is he's not playing the game with the speed necessary to excel at this level. That goes for his skating (acceleration and top end speed) and moving the puck.

Now, conspiracy time - but I don't think Kakko came to camp in the right kind of shape. This is purely speculation on my part, but there were a few articles about how he came to America later in the summer to celebrate/have fun in Finland after the World Championships. Can't blame him for that, but he's come off as a player that is playing catchup when it comes to his conditioning level. This seems like an easy thing to fix as long as he's got his head screwed on right.

 

[Edge]

So he's doing ok for a far less good player than we hoped for?

I think that's what people are saying.

We made 2 huge signings in the summer which was supported by the fan base because they felt we were pretty close after getting the missing link in Kakko.

And if he's not, were the signings ok?

Why isn't having a good player having him learn to be good? Now having a elite Russian isn't enough. People are talking about bringing in Finns to make him look happy

Is it ok that we probably will end up picking outside the top 10 this year?
.

Whats the real story here?

Personally, I still have major concerns with the timing and that continues to be something I am of unsure of when it comes to our off-season moves. I always felt that we were pushing things and a lot would have to fall into place to have the kind of overlap we’re hoping for.

Nothings really changed for me on that front. Panarin is still an elite talent. And the Rangers still have a lot of question marks, uncertainty about timing and probably still need that one more potentially elite young talent via the draft.

There’s not a lot of difference between January 1, 2020 and July 1, 2019 for me.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Personally, I still have major concerns with the timing and that continues to be something I am of unsure of when it comes to our off-season moves. I always felt that we were pushing things and a lot would have to fall into place to have the kind of overlap we’re hoping for.

Nothings really changed for me on that front. Panarin is still an elite talent. And the Rangers still have a lot of question marks, uncertainty about timing and probably still need that one more potentially elite young talent via the draft.

There’s not a lot of difference between January 1, 2020 and July 1, 2019 for me.

I was with you before the year started, but, I do feel this team is somewhat ahead of where I thought they would be. In my mind, Zibanejad becoming an elite player to go with Panarin, and Chytil becoming a much more well-rounded player and looking like he can play center at the NHL level answers a lot of questions for me. And DeAngelo and Fox allay quite a few questions on defense. Whereas, I was concerned about the center position coming into the season, what’s become more prevalent is the need for a top end LD.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

This is a much more level headed approach to the situation. I think it's too early to say if Kakko has trouble processing the game at the NHL level. That'd be a much bigger problem. The immediate problem is he's not playing the game with the speed necessary to excel at this level. That goes for his skating (acceleration and top end speed) and moving the puck.

Now, conspiracy time - but I don't think Kakko came to camp in the right kind of shape. This is purely speculation on my part, but there were a few articles about how he came to America later in the summer to celebrate/have fun in Finland after the World Championships. Can't blame him for that, but he's come off as a player that is playing catchup when it comes to his conditioning level. This seems like an easy thing to fix as long as he's got his head screwed on right.

He's been less good that I feared he would be when I wanted the Rangers to not make signings in the summer.

My fear was that he wouldn't be a superstar out of the gate, and that's why I felt the Rangers should hold the horses and dip into the lottery for another 1-2 years.

What happened was he's performing even worse than I expected, and the Rangers are in the middle. On top of that no one seems concerned which sort of makes me question everyone

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Personally, I still have major concerns with the timing and that continues to be something I am of unsure of when it comes to our off-season moves. I always felt that we were pushing things and a lot would have to fall into place to have the kind of overlap we’re hoping for.

Nothings really changed for me on that front. Panarin is still an elite talent. And the Rangers still have a lot of question marks, uncertainty about timing and probably still need that one more potentially elite young talent via the draft.

There’s not a lot of difference between January 1, 2020 and July 1, 2019 for me.

My concern has always been and still is the timing, and now that it looks as if it will take Kakko more time than anticipated, it makes the timing even worse.

 

[Edge]

I was with you before the year started, but, I do feel this team is somewhat ahead of where I thought they would be. In my mind, Zibanejad becoming an elite player to go with Panarin, and Chytil becoming a much more well-rounded player and looking like he can play center at the NHL level answers a lot of questions for me. And DeAngelo and Fox allay quite a few questions on defense. Whereas, I was concerned about the center position coming into the season, what’s become more prevalent is the need for a top end LD.

See now, I am quite the opposite. I think Panarin and Zibanejad mask a lot of holes, the depth is nice but not able to produce without feeding off those two, and several prospects have reminded us that the timetable for them hitting their stride is closer to the realistic side of things than the optimistic side of things.

The question after this off-season was not whether we would come away with two higher end talents, it’s whether we would have the depth to compliment them. And looking at the near future, there’s still a big drop off at multiple positions.

 

[NickyLongLegz]

I watched a YouTube video on kakko’s November highlights. Damn he looked really good in a few games (like the Pittsburg game). I think when he scores a goal, he’ll start to look like he did in November again. Again, I think when this kid is at least Chytil’s age, he’s going to be a great player

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

He's been less good that I feared he would be when I wanted the Rangers to not make signings in the summer.

My fear was that he wouldn't be a superstar out of the gate, and that's why I felt the Rangers should hold the horses and dip into the lottery for another 1-2 years.

What happened was he's performing even worse than I expected, and the Rangers are in the middle. On top of that no one seems concerned which sort of makes me question everyone

I see a lot of people trying to tie Kakko's development to the Panarin/Trouba acquisitions and being upset about "the timing." Maybe Im getting more optimistic in my old age, but Im very happy the team has Panarin and Kakko on the roster right now.

I mean, looks what's happening - the Rangers got lucky, finally got a top 3 pick, and people are ripping him apart for not being a contributor within 3 months. What would be the point of continuing to suck? So we can get another player that's years away that the fanbase can skewer? I think when all this comes together, it will happen quickly, and we'll be happy to have Panarin already on the roster rather than searching for a player like him.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I see a lot of people trying to tie Kakko's development to the Panarin/Trouba acquisitions and being upset about "the timing." Maybe Im getting more optimistic in my old age, but Im very happy the team has Panarin and Kakko on the roster right now.

I mean, looks what's happening - the Rangers got lucky, finally got a top 3 pick, and people are ripping him apart for not being a contributor within 3 months. What would be the point of continuing to suck? So we can get another player that's years away that the fanbase can skewer? I think when all this comes together, it will happen quickly, and we'll be happy to have Panarin already on the roster rather than searching for a player like him.

My idea was to get another top 5 and then maybe another top 5, and then like other teams that win, hit their stride together.

I'm not sure how I'm not being clear about timing.

 

[Ghost of jas]

See now, I am quite the opposite. I think Panarin and Zibanejad mask a lot of holes, the depth is nice but not able to produce without feeding off those two, and several prospects have reminded us that the timetable for them hitting their stride is closer to the realistic side of things than the optimistic side of things.

The question after this off-season was not whether we would come away with two higher end talents, it’s whether we would have the depth to compliment them. And looking at the near future, there’s still a big drop off at multiple positions.

I think the rest of the season is either going to allay a lot of fears or at least answer a lot of questions, which will determine the approach. My gut feeling is that the Rangers are a little bit ahead of where I thought they would be, so I am more convinced that next year is takeoff time.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

My idea was to get another top 5 and then maybe another top 5, and then like other teams that win, hit their stride together.

I'm not sure how I'm not being clear about timing.

That can still happen. And they have Panarin.

 

[Chimpradamus]

He should've played another year in Finland before coming over. I don't understand the rush to bring over players at such an early age, let them develop their game first.

As it is now, he's more of regressing than improving.

 

[Edge]

I think the rest of the season is either going to allay a lot of fears or at least answer a lot of questions, which will determine the approach. My gut feeling is that the Rangers are a little bit ahead of where I thought they would be, so I am more convinced that next year is takeoff time.

For me, their success depends on who they move or don’t move, and what deals are available out there.

As currently constructed, and with who is in the system, I do not see a team that is primed for takeoff next season.

However, if they use some of the pieces they have, they could be. But that’s going to mean moving guys and maximizing returns.

So I tend to view things like a game of Monopoly right now. We don’t have a complete set of colors and we’re not going to get further into the game with what we currently have. But, we can get there if we make the right moves. And that’s going to require some tough decisions. We might like having a red property and a green property. But we might very well be a better contender if we move them for a combination of purples, oranges and light blues.

What we can’t do at this time is fall in love with the properties we have.

So success, for me, will be judged by how we use the players we have to fill holes, more so than viewing what we have as being capable of filling said holes.

 

[Ghost of jas]

For me, their success depends on who they move or don’t move, and what deals are available out there.

As currently constructed, and with who is in the system, I do not see a team that is primed for takeoff next season.

However, if they use some of the pieces they have, they could be. But that’s going to mean moving guys and maximizing returns.

So I tend to view things like a game of Monopoly right now. We don’t have a complete set of colors and we’re not going to get further into the game with what we currently have. But, we can get there if we make the right moves. And that’s going to require some tough decisions. We might like having a red property and a green property. But we might very well be a better contender if we move them for a combination of purples, oranges and light blues.

What we can’t do at this time is fall in love with the properties we have.

I fully agree with this. It’s fun to speculate and predict how players will turn out. I have said there are no givens from the beginning. You know I was not for signing Panarin, but here we are. And, as we discussed, Panarin has changed the timeline. I think this team, going into the off-season, is primed next year to be a playoff team. I think given the arsenal Gorton has accumulated, he has the ability to upgrade the roster by once again targeting the proper players. Do I think they’re a Cup contender next year? No, but, I see a team that will be in comfortable playoff position for most of the year. I expect them to fall short this year.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

A full offseason of training from April - Sept is going to do this kid WONDERS. He is so damn scrawny, legs are tooth picks. Once he puts on muscle things will start getting very easy for him at the NHL. The natural skill is there, you can't teach that.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Panarin having a monster season has kind of distracted us from Kakko being underwhelming thus far. It'd be disingenuous to say he hasn't been disappointing

The skill is clearly there, but the adjustment period is going to be much longer than we thought

This is exactly right. And it shouldn't be a controversial belief.

 

[Chytilmania]

This is just a different idea but does anyone think playing with stars like Zib and Panarin are causing him to play worse? You see when he scores his goals it's when he's being assertive and taking shots. Then on the PP he's so frustrating because he can tee up one timers and he continues to try and feed others. He keeps passing up shots. You watch his TPS highlights and he actually shoots.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This is just a different idea but does anyone think playing with stars like Zib and Panarin are causing him to play worse? You see when he scores his goals it's when he's being assertive and taking shots. Then on the PP he's so frustrating because he can tee up one timers and he continues to try and feed others. He keeps passing up shots. You watch his TPS highlights and he actually shoots.

He is 18, he is a high end player who played overseas last year under a different style of game, different speed, size of rink etc. I'm really not worried about him at all, I wish NY would send all kids to the AHL until they earn a call up. This throwing them to the fire right away hasnt worked with anyone. I can see what you are saying though, I felt this early on where he kept trying to force it to Panarin but by now I'm sure he has been told by zib or artemi that you take your shot when it's there. He just needs time, I actually thought he was getting some good chemistry with Lemieux and Howden before he got hurt. I'd like to see him with Chytil and Fast now, two guys that will drag his pace up.