Justin Holl

[Its not your fault]

Lehtonen might well be an ace in the hole in terms of dealing with Seattle. I would imagine they, and the rest of the league, see him as a higher ceiling player than Dermott (which probably isn't true, Dermott's a good one) because of the perceived offense and all of the hype about him being a potential top pair dman coming into this year. He's put up a bit of offense in a really small sample and his performance has been generally fine. So if we want to keep Dermott and he's the one that's going to be exposed, I would think that Seattle would take a small asset to choose Lehtonen instead.

Only reason I can't agree with this is if Lehtonen is seen as the better value already you wouldn't have to add extra.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Only reason I can't agree with this is if Lehtonen is seen as the better value already you wouldn't have to add extra.

That's true too, I just don't know if he'll get enough of a showing to be seen as better, but if so I agree.

Higher upside I would think in most people's view

 

[saffronleaf]

Maybe it would be good to rest him a couple of games. Not even as a punishment, but it's a tough season and he's been logging tough minutes. And would give others an opportunity get some games in and stay sharp for when / if they are called upon later.

 

[Gallagbi]

Maybe it would be good to rest him a couple of games. Not even as a punishment, but it's a tough season and he's been logging tough minutes. And would give others an opportunity get some games in and stay sharp for when / if they are called upon later.

We're going into a light stretch, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense now

 

[LastOne2100]

Maybe it would be good to rest him a couple of games. Not even as a punishment, but it's a tough season and he's been logging tough minutes. And would give others an opportunity get some games in and stay sharp for when / if they are called upon later.

Yeah, it's hard to be too down on Holl after the rough couple of games as he has FAR exceeded expectations this year. Let him sit a couple of games - we have a few defensemen ready to jump in and bring some fresh energy.

 

[Stephen]

Probably his worst night since becoming a full time NHLer. Give the guy some load management. We have Lehtonen rotting away for no reason and now there's an urgent need to give the blueline a rest.

 

[IPS]

Lol I think Leafs Nation jumped the gun on Holl.

He has followed precisely the same trajectory this season as last.

He looks like an elite shutdown D the first 20-25 games of the season but eventually falls off and becomes a #6-7D at best.

2 games now he's been taken off Muzzin's pair and he looks even worse - which kind of confirms that he did benefit a lot from playing with Muzzin.

I can already see the wall of advanced stats being prepared to defend him but good luck with that - I think we all see him for what he is.

 

[Apex Predator]

Lol I think Leafs Nation jumped the gun on Holl.

He has followed precisely the same trajectory this season as last.

He looks like an elite shutdown D the first 20-25 games of the season but eventually falls off and becomes a #6-7D at best.

2 games now he's been taken off Muzzin's pair and he looks even worse - which kind of confirms that he did benefit a lot from playing with Muzzin.

I can already see the wall of advanced stats being prepared to defend him but good luck with that - I think we all see him for what he is.

I agree with you. It’s become a pattern with him. The guy is fine as a number 6. That’s what he is.

 

[Carltons Cup]

I think Holl is making too many mental mistakes. It may be a good idea to rotate Lily in the lineup and get the guys fresh for the playoffs.

 

[LeafGrief]

With five points (all assists) in the last six games, I thought Holl deserved a bump for a job well done. 10 goals for, 5 against at even strength in those six games, the team's #1 PK'er, and chewing up 20 minutes a night. He and Muzzin form such an excellent shutdown pair and get the hardest zone starts and matchups Keefe can throw at them. He played a career-high 26:39 in our 5-3 win against Winnipeg on April 22nd.

He's a rock solid #4.

 

[zeke]

Holl and Muzzin both top 30 in even strength points for dmen, all while playing top shutdown duty.

 

[Morbo]

Holl isn't as good as he was earlier in the season. fatigue might be playing a role so I don't mind giving him a game off.

 

[Bomber0104]

At this point, it's looking like Holl is/was completely a product of Jake Muzzin.

As Muzzin's play rises/falls, so to does Holl's.

3rd pairing d-man at best who's in over his head playing on the 2nd pairing, as I've always said

 

[Clark4Ever]

He has really fallen off this season, and it's not just because of Muzzin's poor play.

 

[sparxx87]

He has really fallen off this season, and it's not just because of Muzzin's poor play.

There’s some fundamental flaws in his game that always seemed likely to be exposed. I think it’s a big reason why Babcock dismissed him so early despite some obvious positives.

 

[IPS]

There’s some fundamental flaws in his game that always seemed likely to be exposed. I think it’s a big reason why Babcock dismissed him so early despite some obvious positives.

Holl actually played amazing for fairly large stretches in the previous 2 seasons. No need to rewrite history.

 

[ACC1224]

There’s some fundamental flaws in his game that always seemed likely to be exposed. I think it’s a big reason why Babcock dismissed him so early despite some obvious positives.

He never really looked very good to me, not a fan.
He would be ok on the bottom pair but was always out of place on the 2nd pairing.

 

[sparxx87]

Holl actually played amazing for fairly large stretches in the previous 2 seasons. No need to rewrite history.

I agree theres definitely some positives, and for me, his story is one I cheer for, but theres been some concerns about his game from the beginning. I know I've been in on a few of those discussions so it's always been my version/opinion of history. I wrote a long post that was essentially a scouting repot, not going to do all that again because it was an incredibly poor use of time but highlights - Holl is a very good 1v1 defender. Whether on the rush or in the zone, he uses his stick and reach very effectively to play simple defense. Hes not a great skater but hes good on his edges which allows him to move well in close quarters, and he also makes a pretty good first pass as well as some creativity to use the boards or just hesitate or change the angle to make a play. All very good things.... but, where he struggles is when the simple play isn't right in front of him or he has to anticipate the next play. Nowhere is this more glaring than in d zone coverage where he often falls asleep, losing body position or just missing his check. He doesn't use his size and leverage to box out/tie up like he needs to, he'll often defend a wrap around the boards the far point from his corner then get beat back to the net and allow a player free to either screen or deflect a potential point shot etc etc. So many little details that often go overlooked if they don't end up in the net, but ones that are sure to drive a coach crazy.

While he never spoke on the subject to my knowledge, these critical flaws are my best guess as to why Babcock dismissed him so early despite some obvious positives.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Holl actually played amazing for fairly large stretches in the previous 2 seasons. No need to rewrite history.

I think he could be more effective on the 3rd pairing in a more sheltered role. Liljegren should be a better option with Muzzin at this point.

 

[harvestglen]

Holl actually played amazing for fairly large stretches in the previous 2 seasons. No need to rewrite history.

I wouldn't say amazing, and I wouldn't have said amazing at the time either.

My quote from July:

I'll be pretty disappointed if McCann ends up picked by Seattle. Not because of the trade, which is a good value deal regardless of expansion outcome, but because they had the option to protect both McCann and Kerfoot over Holl and chose not to.

 

[justashadowof]

At this point, it's looking like Holl is/was completely a product of Jake Muzzin.

As Muzzin's play rises/falls, so to does Holl's.

3rd pairing d-man at best who's in over his head playing on the 2nd pairing, as I've always said

I think some are severely discounting the impact the play of a defense partner has on the other defender's game. If I'm paired with some defense stud I've got a safety play available most of the time.

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

I love how two weeks ago I said the biggest upgrade this team needs is an upgrade on Holl and I was told how amazing he is in the top four. Lol looks like the coach agrees with me

 

[justashadowof]

Let's get Liljegren to flourish on the sheltered 3rd pairing minutes he's getting right now first. I'd be more comfortable with Dermott on the 2nd pairing right side at this point.

 

[IPS]

I love how two weeks ago I said the biggest upgrade this team needs is an upgrade on Holl and I was told how amazing he is in the top four. Lol looks like the coach agrees with me

lol you're def not the only one..

 

[IPS]

I agree theres definitely some positives, and for me, his story is one I cheer for, but theres been some concerns about his game from the beginning. I know I've been in on a few of those discussions so it's always been my version/opinion of history. I wrote a long post that was essentially a scouting repot, not going to do all that again because it was an incredibly poor use of time but highlights - Holl is a very good 1v1 defender. Whether on the rush or in the zone, he uses his stick and reach very effectively to play simple defense. Hes not a great skater but hes good on his edges which allows him to move well in close quarters, and he also makes a pretty good first pass as well as some creativity to use the boards or just hesitate or change the angle to make a play. All very good things.... but, where he struggles is when the simple play isn't right in front of him or he has to anticipate the next play. Nowhere is this more glaring than in d zone coverage where he often falls asleep, losing body position or just missing his check. He doesn't use his size and leverage to box out/tie up like he needs to, he'll often defend a wrap around the boards the far point from his corner then get beat back to the net and allow a player free to either screen or deflect a potential point shot etc etc. So many little details that often go overlooked if they don't end up in the net, but ones that are sure to drive a coach crazy.

While he never spoke on the subject to my knowledge, these critical flaws are my best guess as to why Babcock dismissed him so early despite some obvious positives.

You're definitely not wrong on any of your analysis here.

But my biggest gripe was Babcock playing Ozighanov over Holl. That guy was a major disaster.