Value of: Justin Braun to the Rangers
- Thread starter LiveLongandProspal
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Limekiller
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Braun is someone we really don't have a good replacement for at this time. Our recent 1st round D-man pick has every physical tool in the book, but seems to have very little toolbox. Our best D prospect is probably 2 years away, at least. He does have more offensive impact than he often gets credit for, but that is not at all his area of expertise. He has worked his defensive game to a point where he is really not THAT far below Vlasic, and everyone knows how amazing a defensive D-man Vlasic is. He even stepped up his game a notch at the end of last season when we lost Vlasic for 2 weeks. Lets put it this way, I am 100% sure that we'll be protecting Braun for the expansion draft, over Martin and our recent signee, Schlemko. So, he's basically indispensable to us at the moment, since trading him away would open up a huge hole back there that we'd have to go fill ourselves.
As a result, the only way the Sharks would even consider it would be for a stupidly huge overpayment that no GM in their right minds would ever consider. Even if the value offered was equal, or even slightly/moderately favored the Sharks, I don't think the team would do it, as losing him would be THAT huge a loss. I am sure every team out there has one or two of those guys that are absolutely essential to YOUR team, but have a lot less value to anyone else, so you'd basically never want to trade them. Braun is one of those guys for us.
As a result, the only way the Sharks would even consider it would be for a stupidly huge overpayment that no GM in their right minds would ever consider. Even if the value offered was equal, or even slightly/moderately favored the Sharks, I don't think the team would do it, as losing him would be THAT huge a loss. I am sure every team out there has one or two of those guys that are absolutely essential to YOUR team, but have a lot less value to anyone else, so you'd basically never want to trade them. Braun is one of those guys for us.
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He is terrific at moving the puck.
People too often confuse Puck moving Dman with Offensively gifted when Puck moving Dman is the definition of "A guy who makes the correct play in his own zone and transitions the puck from defense to offense VIA breakout passing and skating"
"Puck moving Defenseman" needs to stop being misinterpreted. It is all about transition game, not offense.
Vlasic has been one of the best Puck moving Dmen in the league for a Decade, and Braun is basically Vlasic lite". Vlasic was given more nudges than usual to jump into the play and some PP time and his numbers responded accordingly.
And he is not for sale. If we are protecting 3 Dmen, they are Burns, Vlasic and Braun.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Braun would be our second best defensemen right now. Sure, you can make the argument for Klein because, when he's on, he's pretty damn great for us. Overall, Braun is just better. He's under 30. He's got great size. In my opinion, he's Marc Staal pre-injury, with better skating. He uses his stick to his advantage, and can match some of the top defensemen in the league defending one-one.
This isn't about, "Wow, Rick Nash is so underrated." Lets be honest, Dylan McIlrath would be a toss in here. Is Braun what we need? Eh', probably not right now. Take away Girardi and Staal, replace them with somebody who could move the puck and be apart of the offense, then Braun would be the exact type of defensemen we should be going after.
Gecklund
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bigwillie
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Braun's chemistry with Vlasic just makes it too tough to look at trading him. Between that and his criminally underrated game, any value the Sharks are going to want in return is going to make other teams balk.
Igor Shestyorkin
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Which recent 1st round D-man? Mirco Mueller? Because that was the last d-man you guys got in the 1st round and he was picked in 2013.
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bigwillie
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Please tell me what you need to snort/smoke/inject to think that a great top-4, borderline top-2 defenseman is worth a 2nd round pick.
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To the request, no
As for Braun's style of play, he's a PMD in that he very effectively moves the puck out if the zone with his amazing skating and good first pass, but he's not particularly dangerous once past the blue line, and you don't want him on the power play
He's a defense first player and it shows in his counting stats, and he's a fantastic PKer
As for Braun's style of play, he's a PMD in that he very effectively moves the puck out if the zone with his amazing skating and good first pass, but he's not particularly dangerous once past the blue line, and you don't want him on the power play
He's a defense first player and it shows in his counting stats, and he's a fantastic PKer
Juxtaposer
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No thank you. Nash is a great player but he is the last thing we actively need. Braun is a glue guy and while eventually down the line I think he could be internally replaced decently by Dylan DeMelo, for now he is integral to the Sharks lineup unless he were part of a trade for a better, younger, and cheaper player than Nash.
Braun is a great PMD but not particularly dynamic offensively. He has a great first pass, which is where I suspect the primary assists come from. Obviously, he's a borderline elite defensive player with great chemistry with Vlasic and a fantastic contract to make him even more attractive. He's also not a guy who want anywhere near your PP. And he is MUCH better than Kevin Klein, no offense.
Braun is a great PMD but not particularly dynamic offensively. He has a great first pass, which is where I suspect the primary assists come from. Obviously, he's a borderline elite defensive player with great chemistry with Vlasic and a fantastic contract to make him even more attractive. He's also not a guy who want anywhere near your PP. And he is MUCH better than Kevin Klein, no offense.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Overall, yes. My point was he'd be our 2nd best D-man, 3rd best if fans want to make the argument for Klein since he's been pretty damn good for us. Basically, Braun's pretty damn good is what I'm saying.
Limekiller
Registered User
Yeah, him. He's fast enough that he was able to catch Gaborik at full speed, when he started both behind Gaborik and on the opposite side of the rink as well. Relatively big kid too. But he seems to make a ton of mental errors, and hasn't been reading the play well. This may be because he's over-thinking everything trying to not make mistakes, we don't know yet.
So yeah, every physical tool you could ask for, but the toolbox hasn't come together yet. If it ever does, he'll be really good, though never an offensive threat himself.
Yeah Braun would be very expensive to acquire, and if willing to pay that type of price you would be better off looking for a guy who better fits the mold of what you are looking for. Braun has some playmaking abilities, but if that is of primary importance, Braun isn't worth the cost.
Agree with everything Sharks fans have said about Braun.
The one thing I'll add, as far as his offense goes, is his wrister is pretty decent when he can get it on net. Same problem many other dmen have - not being able to find lanes to get it through.
The one thing I'll add, as far as his offense goes, is his wrister is pretty decent when he can get it on net. Same problem many other dmen have - not being able to find lanes to get it through.
LadyStanley
Registered User
OP = no. Cap $$s don't work for Sharks.
No, they have five goalies signed in organization. NHL: Jones and perhaps Dell. AHL: Armalis and Grosenick. ECHL: Murray.
Don't need any more.
No, they have five goalies signed in organization. NHL: Jones and perhaps Dell. AHL: Armalis and Grosenick. ECHL: Murray.
Don't need any more.
Braun's greatest quality is his skating ability. So I don't understand why you would say it isn't his greatest quality. He's a phenomenal skater.
I'd do Braun + Wingels for Nash + McIlrath. Full disclosure, I am high on Nash and low on Braun. I think Braun is an okay defender, but I really feel his numbers are pretty inflated by MEV. If you watched the Pens in the SCF, their defensive transition game was amazing. It blew up so mnay coverages the way their D were constantly swarming, switching sides, etc. Braun just doesn't play at that level. Great skater, great gap control, great poke check - but his hockey IQ rather low and his offensive instincts pretty bad. DeMelo or more realistically Schlemko could do a much better job playing that sort of fluid style, and are just as capable defensively. McIlrath would probably get buried, but I could see him being a good 6/7, or worse case a bargaining chip. Throw Nash in the mix, and you have a deadly scorer that is gonna take anyone he slots with to new levels. Flat out makes the team much better - both offensively and defensively. I'd do a trade like this in an instant. Been hoping to see it happen all off-season tbh.
DeMelo and Schlemko are nowhere near as capable defensively as Braun. I can agree that his offensive instincts aren't there but low hockey IQ? That's utterly ridiculous. You don't play as well defensively as Braun does to even play with Vlasic w/o being at least comparable in terms of hockey IQ. Remember who Braun is playing against regularly. Vlasic can't shut them down by himself.
To me at least, hockey IQ relates to being able to play a multidimensional game. It's about complexity - not consistency. Braun is a skilled and consistent player, don't mistake my meaning hede. He however, does not think the game like Vlasic, Burns, Thornton, Pavelski, etc. His game, as good as it is, doesn't have a ton of depth. It's one dimensional. He does what he does.
As for DeMelo vs Braun - this is an actual situation. And to me at least, DeMelo played admirably in his time with MEV. Give him a full 82 game season and I suspect the few flaws he did exhibit would be polished away. Admittedly a small sample size, but we know he can play that role.
Schlemko on the other hand, is a far more exciting prospect. He brings the requisite experience need for a true MEV pairing, while also providing a nice mix of something new. He would, I believe, if given the chance, support MEV is ways Braun simply can not. His ambidexterity, superior transition and offensive game, combined with a more adaptable style, I think would allow that first pairing to become an even greater threat. Vlasic could build off his career season, with a partner capable of supporting him in all the right ways. This would ideally untether MEV more, let him play a less structured game, and provide him another option to run the offense through. As it stands, every team knows to tunnel MEV on the rush - simply because Braun isnt a threat. This is precisely why after a career offensive season, Vlasic was unable to keep pace in the play-offs. Did he contribute via positive Corsi generation and play-making? Absolutely. But the reason for Braun's sudden offensive prowess was that everyone was focused on MEV. Fix that, and you create a much more dynamic and competitive first pairing.
Braun isn't a bad player - and I absolutely think we can turn him for significant value - but given PDBs more fluid and aggressive system, I do believe we need a suitably fluid and capable partner to pair with him. We gotta adapt. Vlasic is our guy, Braun is the support - new systems mean new support.
