Value of: Justin Braun to the Leafs at the deadline

[seanlinden]

I agree doesn't matter on hand. If the guy is comfortable and capable of the right side of muzzin.

I'd go one step further -- I don't actually think they necessarily need a partner strictly for Muzzin.

You could probably put Brodie & Muzzin together to do a ton of heavy lifting. You'd need a partner for Rielly.

You could put Holl and Muzzin back together, and just try to reduce their workload by Sandin & his partner picking up some of the matchups.

Josh Manson is obviously a favourite on this board for many years. Personally, I don't actually like his fit alongside Jake Muzzin -- they're too similar to each other. I think Manson is an ideal fit alongside a Rasmus Sandin; and maybe take some shifts with Morgan Rielly. Justin Braun, IMO, would likely fit in alongside a Sandin. Damon Severson would be an interesting name alongside a Jake Muzzin.

I think one of the challenges that Muzzin & Holl have had this year, is that you don't have Zach Bogosian anchoring that 3rd pairing with a physical presence, so they're having to do a little too much.

 

[Doubledose]

I'd go one step further -- I don't actually think they necessarily need a partner strictly for Muzzin.

You could probably put Brodie & Muzzin together to do a ton of heavy lifting. You'd need a partner for Rielly.

You could put Holl and Muzzin back together, and just try to reduce their workload by Sandin & his partner picking up some of the matchups.

Josh Manson is obviously a favourite on this board for many years. Personally, I don't actually like his fit alongside Jake Muzzin -- they're too similar to each other. I think Manson is an ideal fit alongside a Rasmus Sandin; and maybe take some shifts with Morgan Rielly. Justin Braun, IMO, would likely fit in alongside a Sandin. Damon Severson would be an interesting name alongside a Jake Muzzin.

I think one of the challenges that Muzzin & Holl have had this year, is that you don't have Zach Bogosian anchoring that 3rd pairing with a physical presence, so they're having to do a little too much.

That works to. Cheap guyw ho works with rielly. Someone with muzzin. Someone like Bogo.
We all agree that what we need is the fit. Most understand that's not necessarily a big name just need the right guy

 

[elitepete]

Braun sucks, he's not the d that the Leafs should going after. Is he even better than Hole at this point? The only UFA d that it makes sense for the Leafs to go after are Manson and Klingberg.

If the Leafs are willing to go after someone with term, Murphy, Roy, Walker, Larsson, Demelo, Theodore, Martinez, Marino, Mayfield, Carlo, Petry, Severson, Dumba, Brodin, Ellis also make sense as fits for the Leafs before looking at salary. Not sure how many of these players would be available.

IMO leafs have enough bottom pairing d. They need a 2nd pairing rd.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

The Leafs only have a 1st, 2nd and 7th round picks in 2022 so if Dubas were to acquire Justin Braun the pick might come in the form of a 2023 pick.

A 2nd probably wouldn’t be out of the question but a 3rd or 4th in 2023, would most likely be in Dubas’ ballpark.

 

[seanlinden]

Braun sucks, he's not the d that the Leafs should going after. Is he even better than Hole at this point? The only UFA d that it makes sense for the Leafs to go after are Manson and Klingberg.

If the Leafs are willing to go after someone with term, Murphy, Roy, Walker, Larsson, Demelo, Theodore, Martinez, Marino, Mayfield, Carlo, Petry, Severson, Dumba, Brodin, Ellis also make sense as fits for the Leafs before looking at salary. Not sure how many of these players would be available.

IMO leafs have enough bottom pairing d. They need a 2nd pairing rd.

Probably similar... Sandin with Holl make for a great 3rd pair. Muzzin with Holl have made for a very solid 2nd pair, but have struggled a bit this year.

What they need is a Bogosian replacement, and ideally somebody a little better than he is / was; so that they have the versatility to step higher in the lineup than being stapled to the 3rd pair. Style is probably more important than calibre... the Leafs already have tons of puckmovers between Sandin/Liljegren/Dermott, and the mix just isn't right.

As for the names you mentioned, guys with term would be dependent on how many $$ are involved. Mayfield probably the ideal candidate in that regard with him only being at $1.45m.

Names (from the list you mentioned) that also MIGHT work and be available: Connor Murphy & Damon Severson...with Severson being theoretically more likely as NJ might retain for a year and a half... Chicago isn't retaining on Murphy for 4 years.

That being said -- question -- with Murphy having an extension that kicks in this offseason, can Chicago retain on just the life of his existing deal??

 

[elitepete]

Probably similar... Sandin with Holl make for a great 3rd pair. Muzzin with Holl have made for a very solid 2nd pair, but have struggled a bit this year.

What they need is a Bogosian replacement, and ideally somebody a little better than he is / was; so that they have the versatility to step higher in the lineup than being stapled to the 3rd pair. Style is probably more important than calibre... the Leafs already have tons of puckmovers between Sandin/Liljegren/Dermott, and the mix just isn't right.

As for the names you mentioned, guys with term would be dependent on how many $$ are involved. Mayfield probably the ideal candidate in that regard with him only being at $1.45m.

Names (from the list you mentioned) that also MIGHT work and be available: Connor Murphy & Damon Severson...with Severson being theoretically more likely as NJ might retain for a year and a half... Chicago isn't retaining on Murphy for 4 years.

That being said -- question -- with Murphy having an extension that kicks in this offseason, can Chicago retain on just the life of his existing deal??

The problem with Sandin, Liljegren, Dermott, is that they aren't good enough to play in a 2nd pairing role yet. Leafs need someone that can skate and has a clean breakout pass to pair with Muzzin. Demelo would be a perfect fit. Solid in his own zone as well. Severson would also work.

Going for someone like Manson or Murphy would also be a fit because they could then pair him with Rielly, and move Brodie down to the 2nd pairing.

Muzzin-Holl just isn't a good enough pairing especially in the playoffs where the forechecking and pressure is significantly higher. They would be spending too much time stuck in their own zone.

Adding another top 4 rd would also move Holl to the 3rd pair and they could run Sandin-Holl or Dermott-Holl.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He'd likely have to... but if Josh Manson ends up here, that would likely put an end to Justin Braun.

I think the Leafs see what they have in Sandin-Holl; and are comfortable with that. The need is another right side D that can bump Holl down to that 3rd pair.

I would prefer Josh Manson over Braun

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

To be fair, they tried that approach with Muzzin (as a partner for Rielly) and obviously didn't really pan out that way.

The Leafs have a pretty "rigid" structure of their D. The guy doesn't necessarily need to be a right shot, but he's gotta be somebody that you invision playing with Rielly, Muzzin or Sandin.

They didn't really try

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The problem with Sandin, Liljegren, Dermott, is that they aren't good enough to play in a 2nd pairing role yet. Leafs need someone that can skate and has a clean breakout pass to pair with Muzzin. Demelo would be a perfect fit. Solid in his own zone as well. Severson would also work.

Going for someone like Manson or Murphy would also be a fit because they could then pair him with Rielly, and move Brodie down to the 2nd pairing.

Muzzin-Holl just isn't a good enough pairing especially in the playoffs where the forechecking and pressure is significantly higher. They would be spending too much time stuck in their own zone.

Adding another top 4 rd would also move Holl to the 3rd pair and they could run Sandin-Holl or Dermott-Holl.

Dermott never will be good enough

 

[seanlinden]

The problem with Sandin, Liljegren, Dermott, is that they aren't good enough to play in a 2nd pairing role yet. Leafs need someone that can skate and has a clean breakout pass to pair with Muzzin. Demelo would be a perfect fit. Solid in his own zone as well. Severson would also work.

Going for someone like Manson or Murphy would also be a fit because they could then pair him with Rielly, and move Brodie down to the 2nd pairing.

Muzzin-Holl just isn't a good enough pairing especially in the playoffs where the forechecking and pressure is significantly higher. They would be spending too much time stuck in their own zone.

Adding another top 4 rd would also move Holl to the 3rd pair and they could run Sandin-Holl or Dermott-Holl.

Not exactly. Muzzin's utilization is that of a #1 shutdown pairing. He & Holl were just fine doing it last year, and probably would be fine doing it this year if they had a little more support from behind.

Yes, Muzzin's partner needs to have a good first pass, but, more importantly, he also needs to be "equipped" to be a shutdown defenceman.

 

[Vitto79]

I think we could get a 2nd.

i think guys like Braun you should be Happy to get a 5th. He’s a 3rd pair or spare on a good team

 

[thusk]

The problem with Sandin, Liljegren, Dermott, is that they aren't good enough to play in a 2nd pairing role yet. Leafs need someone that can skate and has a clean breakout pass to pair with Muzzin. Demelo would be a perfect fit. Solid in his own zone as well. Severson would also work.

Going for someone like Manson or Murphy would also be a fit because they could then pair him with Rielly, and move Brodie down to the 2nd pairing.

Muzzin-Holl just isn't a good enough pairing especially in the playoffs where the forechecking and pressure is significantly higher. They would be spending too much time stuck in their own zone.

Adding another top 4 rd would also move Holl to the 3rd pair and they could run Sandin-Holl or Dermott-Holl.

Not exactly. Muzzin's utilization is that of a #1 shutdown pairing. He & Holl were just fine doing it last year, and probably would be fine doing it this year if they had a little more support from behind.

Yes, Muzzin's partner needs to have a good first pass, but, more importantly, he also needs to be "equipped" to be a shutdown defenceman.

Like you said, the most important thing is shutdown ability and physical play. Breaking pass will be pretty good but its not a necessary. You can have a quick transition just with short small pass or by using the board without any breakout pass. Pittsburgh won 2 cup that way

 

[Fight4yourRight]

i think guys like Braun you should be Happy to get a 5th. He’s a 3rd pair or spare on a good team

Umm, no.

Mental note to bump your post after the deadline.

 

[seanlinden]

Like you said, the most important tjing is shutdown ability and physical play. Breaking pass will be pretty good but its not a necessary. Ypu can have a quick transition just with shirt small pass or by using the board without any breakout pass. Pittsburgh won 2 cup that way

I'd also add -- that whomever we acquire has to be reasonably sized, and win 1 on 1 physical battles. A playoff series can be a test of endurance. Rielly & Brodie will frustrate you with their efficiency, but they're not going to wear you down.

The Leafs need a better Zach Bogosian.

 

[Vitto79]

Umm, no.

Mental note to bump your post after the deadline.

please do! Always fun to see who’s right
Could be wrong

 

[thusk]

Umm, no.

Mental note to bump your post after the deadline.

5th maybe too low but i cant see braun giving more than a 4th or maybe a 3rd with every player available...

 

[elitepete]

Not exactly. Muzzin's utilization is that of a #1 shutdown pairing. He & Holl were just fine doing it last year, and probably would be fine doing it this year if they had a little more support from behind.

Yes, Muzzin's partner needs to have a good first pass, but, more importantly, he also needs to be "equipped" to be a shutdown defenceman.

I thought Rielly's pairing was used as the #1 shutdown pairing?

If Muzzin's pairing is used in that way, then I think it would be best to move Brodie to that pairing and acquire a top 4 rd to pair with Rielly.

 

[thusk]

I thought Rielly's pairing was used as the #1 shutdown pairing?

If Muzzin's pairing is used in that way, then I think it would be best to move Brodie to that pairing and acquire a top 4 rd to pair with Rielly.

Muzzin and holl is #1 shutdown pairing since the beggining of last season

 

[Pantokrator]

I'd love to get a 3rd rounder for him, but I think he'll get a 5th at best. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Fletcher trades Braun and a 5th for a 7th rounder, because that would be stupid and in line with Fletcher's thinking.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'd love to get a 3rd rounder for him, but I think he'll get a 5th at best. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Fletcher trades Braun and a 5th for a 7th rounder, because that would be stupid and in line with Fletcher's thinking.

If you are right I hope Dubas takes advantage

 

[seanlinden]

I thought Rielly's pairing was used as the #1 shutdown pairing?

If Muzzin's pairing is used in that way, then I think it would be best to move Brodie to that pairing and acquire a top 4 rd to pair with Rielly.

No... generally speaking Muzzin & Holl have always had the tough matchups.

That being said, the Leafs really do have options. They can look to improve their 3rd pair so as to take some of the pressure off Muzzin/Holl. They can look to upgrade Holl on the 2nd pair, or they can look to get another partner for Rielly and move Brodie to a shutdown pair with Muzzin. Ultimately, I think the latter would be the least preferential given how well Rielly & Brodie play together.

Regardless of what approach they take, the qualities they're looking for in a defenceman don't really change -- size/physicality, defensive ability, decent first pass.

 

[crowi]

Pretty stupid how many are complaining about a spelling mistake from OP.

Braun's a good target for Leafs. Is he as good as Manson for them? Perhaps not, but he is definitely cheap. Then again he is more risky as well.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

i think guys like Braun you should be Happy to get a 5th. He’s a 3rd pair or spare on a good team

If that's all he costs I hope Dubas jumps on that.

But he will get more

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Pretty stupid how many are complaining about a spelling mistake from OP.

Braun's a good target for Leafs. Is he as good as Manson for them? Perhaps not, but he is definitely cheap. Then again he is more risky as well.

Yeah that's why I never responded those comments because I don't care