Just how good is the Mcdonagh/Girardi pairing..?

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I'll take his 5 years of NHL experience as my barometer.

Aside from an outstanding sophomore campaign, he's proven to be a 40 point defenseman that plays good defense, but not anywhere close to guys like Chara, Suter, Weber, McDonagh, Keith etc.

Yeah, I don't see how Doughty's "not anywhere close" to McDonagh, that's a pretty ridiculous assertion.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Yeah, I don't see how Doughty's "not anywhere close" to McDonagh, that's a pretty ridiculous assertion.

Defensively.

McDonagh is a solid amount better defensively than Doughty.

 

[vipernsx]

ok. Which one of Pietro and Bouwmeester has a Norris. And Bownmeester is by far the worst defensive player on the page. I'd take McD and Girardi over the St. Louis duo and it's a toss up with the Chicago Boys.

Pietrangelo is easily one of the best blueliners in the league and going into any season he could be a Norris candidate. Bouwmeester is just as sound defensively as Girardi yet skates twice as good.

Seabrook is massively overrated imo. He'd be considered a 2nd pairing defenseman without Keith.

The guy's got two Stanley Cup rings and an Olympic gold medal on Canadian team where a lot of talented players were left off.

Seabrook is part of why Keith can take as many risks as he does. He's a legitimate top-pairing defender.

Yeah, I don't know if I'd say that. He's borderline at best. Keith is easily the most important player on that pairing. Seabrook fills his role well, but individually, he's not that great.

The same could be said about Girardi.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

Yeah, I don't see how Doughty's "not anywhere close" to McDonagh, that's a pretty ridiculous assertion.

McDonagh is better defensively and also has more points than Doughty.

The guy's got two Stanley Cup rings and an Olympic gold medal on Canadian team where a lot of talented players were left off.

Hamuis and Vlasic were also on that team, but that doesn't mean they are anywhere near any of the other guys in this thread.

 

[Mikos87]

Hamuis and Vlasic were also on that team, but that doesn't mean they are anywhere near any of the other guys in this thread.

They were there because they can skate on the big ice and play a mistake free game. Both are very very good top pair defensemen, and have been playing on winning teams for the last several years (except this year for Hamhuis).

Neither are heralded because they bring little to no fantasy value, but both are very very good defensemen.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Did not want to start a new thread for this, but I think it's fair to call out Ryan McDonagh for last night's performance.

Let's preface this with saying Ryan McDonagh is my favorite Ranger. Absolute favorite. Not fair to McD to use the NL comparison, but I feel he's heading in that direction, and there is a Norris trophy in his future. Thank goodness we have him, and this is also one of the few places where I will give Sather credit for not only acquiring McDonagh, but also for signing him to a team-friendly contract.

So, that all said, I get that McDonagh is playing hurt this series. It's completely evident in plays like how he was unable to body Malkin on the play that led to their fourth goal last night, and you can see it other times as well. I am NOT calling McDonagh out for that.

I'm also surprised that he's getting beaten one on one so frequently, not only by guys like Couturier and Malkin, but also by some of the lesser lights in the Flyers and Penguins lineup. I am giving McDonagh the benefit of the doubt here that for some reason he can't move side to side or turn quickly enough, or can't use his body, so I am NOT calling him out for that.

The one part of his game that does not seem to be affected by his injury is his acceleration and 'foot' speed. He seems to be getting from point A to point B just as quickly as ever, and that's where I had a problem with him last night.

During the power play when the game was tied 1-1, Nash is being absolutely vilified for his turnover - and being no fan of Nash, I'm on board with that. But what's being totally overlooked is the lack of effort of McDonagh in getting back on that play. He went into full Ovechkin 'controller broken' mode, gliding back while Brandon Sutter skated right past him and put the puck into the mostly open net. Not cool. It's not like McDonagh was skating hard but just didn't have the speed to get there - Sutter was skating and McDonagh was gliding.

I get that Nash is the whipping boy and McDonagh is a lot of people's favorite (including me), but that was unacceptable by McDonagh, and will quite possibly be looked back on as the goal that turned the series in the Penguins direction for good.

I also get that a 75% (or 50% or whatever) McDonagh is better than any alternative we have, and I'm pretty sure it will be announced not long after the season ends that he's going in for shoulder surgery.

That said, if McDonagh is unable to skate hard in one direction when a goal (and possibly the game) are on the line, perhaps it's time to take him out, insert Moore, and hope for the best.

Did I say McDonagh is my favorite player? I forget...

 

[TeamStewie]

I don't buy the premise that speed and acceleration issues aren't related to a shoulder injury. You're going to be moving that shoulder when you're skating and if it's hurting with each stride you can be sure it's going to be affecting how well you're skating. It may be lack of effort or it may just be the best he can do under the circumstances.

 

[RGY]

The pairing is one of the best in hockey. But McDonagh is hurt and it is clearly affecting his game. Girardi has been good these playoffs imo. He has never been a flashy offensive player. He gets the job done.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't buy the premise that speed and acceleration issues aren't related to a shoulder injury. You're going to be moving that shoulder when you're skating and if it's hurting with each stride you can be sure it's going to be affecting how well you're skating. It may be lack of effort or it may just be the best he can do under the circumstances.

Agreed. The guy is playing with one arm. Hes the only one Im willing to give a pass.

He should've gotten back faster on that shorthanded goal, but honestly, who expects such a massively poor play as Nash made on the PP?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Agreed. The guy is playing with one arm. Hes the only one Im willing to give a pass.

Then you gotta give Nash a pass. He's playing with no balls.

 

[TeamStewie]

Then you gotta give Nash a pass. He's playing with no balls.

You would think that would make skating and such easier without all the chafing.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Then you gotta give Nash a pass. He's playing with no balls.

Well done.

 

[Trxjw]

Frankly, I think they're both playing hurt. McDonagh has looked terrible, but Girardi has looked even slower than usual.

 

[Bluenote13]

Then you gotta give Nash a pass. He's playing with no balls.

You're on fire today SBOB !

Mcdonagh is not even 25 and being asked to carry a huge load while injured, I certainly don't fault him for whats taking place. I blame the architect. He's been the constant these last 14 seasons.

 

[Kaapodonna]

Then you gotta give Nash a pass. He's playing with no balls.

You win the internets SBOB!

 

[Cliffy1814]

Did not want to start a new thread for this, but I think it's fair to call out Ryan McDonagh for last night's performance.

Let's preface this with saying Ryan McDonagh is my favorite Ranger. Absolute favorite. Not fair to McD to use the NL comparison, but I feel he's heading in that direction, and there is a Norris trophy in his future. Thank goodness we have him, and this is also one of the few places where I will give Sather credit for not only acquiring McDonagh, but also for signing him to a team-friendly contract.

So, that all said, I get that McDonagh is playing hurt this series. It's completely evident in plays like how he was unable to body Malkin on the play that led to their fourth goal last night, and you can see it other times as well. I am NOT calling McDonagh out for that.

I'm also surprised that he's getting beaten one on one so frequently, not only by guys like Couturier and Malkin, but also by some of the lesser lights in the Flyers and Penguins lineup. I am giving McDonagh the benefit of the doubt here that for some reason he can't move side to side or turn quickly enough, or can't use his body, so I am NOT calling him out for that.

The one part of his game that does not seem to be affected by his injury is his acceleration and 'foot' speed. He seems to be getting from point A to point B just as quickly as ever, and that's where I had a problem with him last night.

During the power play when the game was tied 1-1, Nash is being absolutely vilified for his turnover - and being no fan of Nash, I'm on board with that. But what's being totally overlooked is the lack of effort of McDonagh in getting back on that play. He went into full Ovechkin 'controller broken' mode, gliding back while Brandon Sutter skated right past him and put the puck into the mostly open net. Not cool. It's not like McDonagh was skating hard but just didn't have the speed to get there - Sutter was skating and McDonagh was gliding.

I get that Nash is the whipping boy and McDonagh is a lot of people's favorite (including me), but that was unacceptable by McDonagh, and will quite possibly be looked back on as the goal that turned the series in the Penguins direction for good.

I also get that a 75% (or 50% or whatever) McDonagh is better than any alternative we have, and I'm pretty sure it will be announced not long after the season ends that he's going in for shoulder surgery.

That said, if McDonagh is unable to skate hard in one direction when a goal (and possibly the game) are on the line, perhaps it's time to take him out, insert Moore, and hope for the best.

Did I say McDonagh is my favorite player? I forget...

Beautifully said and 100% accurate. He was the worst player on the ice last night with St Louis a close second. He is my favorite too so I know where you are coming from.
I don't agree with your statement that a 50-70% McDonough is the team's best alternative. He hasn't been medicore or a little off this series he has been dreadful. He should not be in the lineup.
He has been given every benefit of the doubt (which he deserved at first), but he is a liability at this point.
Moore, Diaz, Klein have all played reasonably well.
We have options.

Of course none of this matters at this point, but it was just refreshing to see someone call out Mc D for that glaring lack of effort last night when none of the media and very few fans have been willing to do so.

 

[Callagraves]

Mac is far and away the best skater on the Rangers. I don't just mean his skating, but he's the best player on the roster not named Lundqvist.

He is so injured it's not funny. He's playing the worst hockey of his career, and for a guy who's nothing if not consistently terrific, it's killing us. It's upsetting that one strange hit from Vancouver's Marchand can effectively kill any chance we had of getting out of the 2nd round, but it did.

Nash, MSL, Stepan are all killing our offense. It's dead and gone. But playing McD in his current state is killing the entire team, including Hank.

Bump up Staal. Let Mac sit.

If his injury becomes complicated by this, I will never forgive AV for letting him play. This team doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell at the cup, and it's somehow made worse by letting our best player play injured. Not ruining Ryan McDonagh is way, way more important than fighting for the right to lose to the Bruins/Habs.

 

[n8]

But what's being totally overlooked is the lack of effort of McDonagh in getting back on that play. He went into full Ovechkin 'controller broken' mode, gliding back while Brandon Sutter skated right past him and put the puck into the mostly open net. Not cool.

i love this reference!

 

[Jersey Girl]

Mac is far and away the best skater on the Rangers. I don't just mean his skating, but he's the best player on the roster not named Lundqvist.

He is so injured it's not funny. He's playing the worst hockey of his career, and for a guy who's nothing if not consistently terrific, it's killing us. It's upsetting that one strange hit from Vancouver's Marchand can effectively kill any chance we had of getting out of the 2nd round, but it did.

Nash, MSL, Stepan are all killing our offense. It's dead and gone. But playing McD in his current state is killing the entire team, including Hank.

Bump up Staal. Let Mac sit.

If his injury becomes complicated by this, I will never forgive AV for letting him play. This team doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell at the cup, and it's somehow made worse by letting our best player play injured. Not ruining Ryan McDonagh is way, way more important than fighting for the right to lose to the Bruins/Habs.

LOL it was Alexander Burrows, not Marchand - although this is something Marchand would certainly do!

I agree - I think if the series ends on Friday we'll hear something by Monday about shoulder surgery for McDonagh. At this point you have to wonder how it will affect training camp and the start of next season as well. Perhaps they should get the process started asap.

And I also agree with you and the other poster that this Ryan McDonagh is not helping us and we could be better with John Moore out there instead.

 

[Callagraves]

LOL it was Alexander Burrows, not Marchand - although this is something Marchand would certainly do!

I agree - I think if the series ends on Friday we'll hear something by Monday about shoulder surgery for McDonagh. At this point you have to wonder how it will affect training camp and the start of next season as well. Perhaps they should get the process started asap.

And I also agree with you and the other poster that this Ryan McDonagh is not helping us and we could be better with John Moore out there instead.

...I think you missed what I was trying to say on the bolded.


EDIT: I should clarify- I refer to Burrows as Vancouver's Marchand to highlight how dirty and obnoxious a player Burrows is, but even more so because it's a REALLY quick way to whip Canuck fans into a frenzy; after all, what player could they possibly hate more than Rat Face?

 

[Jersey Girl]

...I think you missed what I was trying to say on the bolded.


EDIT: I should clarify- I refer to Burrows as Vancouver's Marchand to highlight how dirty and obnoxious a player Burrows is, but even more so because it's a REALLY quick way to whip Canuck fans into a frenzy; after all, what player could they possibly hate more than Rat Face?

Now I get it! Sometimes my reading comprehension is a little slow. Thanks for explaining!

 

[stan the caddy]

It certainly looks like McDonagh has an injury but why is he joing the rush so much if he's hurt? He's been caught out of position all playoffs. He's got to settle down or he can sit and Moore can play. He's been that bad.

 

[Callagraves]

Now I get it! Sometimes my reading comprehension is a little slow. Thanks for explaining!

No problem. You know what they say about having to explain the joke.

It's terrible because while it was a bad hit, it wasn't THE DIRTIEST hit. It was just awkward, unnecessary, and a little more predatory than I'd like. And in a game that was all but over between 2 teams that have no reason to be attempting to impact the others season, it was a needless injury.

I'm not one for retribution, but I'm certainly hoping someone lights Burrows up the next time we see him.

 

[Callagraves]

It certainly looks like McDonagh has an injury but why is he joing the rush so much if he's hurt? He's been caught out of position all playoffs. He's got to settle down or he can sit and Moore can play. He's been that bad.

I think it's because we need the offense. The forwards alone aren't getting it done, and a 4 man rush has many more options than a 3 man rush. It sucks that he needs to be making high risk/high reward plays, but that's the situation we're in with the offense. Again.

 

[stan the caddy]

I think it's because we need the offense. The forwards alone aren't getting it done, and a 4 man rush has many more options than a 3 man rush. It sucks that he needs to be making high risk/high reward plays, but that's the situation we're in with the offense. Again.

He doesn't need to be making high risk/reward plays especially when there's no reward to be had. He's eating Pejorative Slur sandwiches all over the ice.