Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[BaseballCoach]

Everybody is an armchair GM in some capacity. Slafkovsky had no points in the last 15 games of last year and 2 points in his first 15 this year. I’m not sure what positive is suppose to be taken from that without hindsight.

It is certainly true that the points were very scarce.

What is less true is that the positive is only a 'hindsight' thing.

Many, many posters saw the progress being made and assured the group that the points would come.

But it's not just many posters here who were seeing the progress and saying so. It was also:

a. coaches​

b. teammates​

c. pundits/analysts​

For those of us who saw with our own eyes the increasingly impactful play developing, it is really, really hard to agree that the 54% in this poll thread who did not think Slafkovsky was a full-time NHLer were just unlucky.

In my view, some missed the significance of certain things that were visible, while others clung to a development model they had in their heads that they believed should be followed no matter what was actually happening with the player.

It's fine. There is nothing wrong with misreading a situation, realizing it, and saying so. It's happened to me in other cases, which is why I don't 'gloat' on the occasions when I might have seen something another person did not.

he now has 8 out of 9 goals against western conference teams. Habs need to relocate to the west

Also all of Slaf's goals have come in the games we were not shut out.

 

[nhlfan9191]

It is certainly true that the points were very scarce.

What is less true is that the positive is only a 'hindsight' thing.

Many, many posters saw the progress being made and assured the group that the points would come.

But it's not just many posters here who were seeing the progress and saying so. It was also:

a. coaches​

b. teammates​

c. pundits/analysts​

For those of us who saw with our own eyes the increasingly impactful play developing, it is really, really hard to agree that the 54% in this poll thread who did not think Slafkovsky was a full-time NHLer were just unlucky.

In my view, some missed the significance of certain things that were visible, while others clung to a development model they had in their heads that they believed should be followed no matter what was actually happening with the player.

It's fine. There is nothing wrong with misreading a situation, realizing it, and saying so. It's happened to me in other cases, which is why I don't 'gloat' on the occasions when I might have seen something another person did not.


Also all of Slaf's goals have come in the games we were not shut out.

I disagree. The narrative that the points would come with the way he was playing didn’t start until after the poor start to this season. And that was also coming off of 40 games last year as well. There weren’t a lot of indicators to point towards that before hand. He wasn’t showing a lot and people reacted accordingly with what they were seeing during that time which is why I brought up hindsight. I didn’t misread anything when it comes to where he was at. He didn’t look like he belonged in any capacity his first 50+ games but like LG said in an above post, it really doesn’t matter how we got here. It looks like he’s figuring it out nicely now.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

so, what are our expectations for the next 82 games?
40++ points? along with all the good stuff he brings to the plate off the puck.

I think he’ll pace for around .5 per game the rest of the way. Next year? Let’s hope for a 40-50 point season.

 

[Guy Larose]

I disagree. The narrative that the points would come with the way he was playing didn’t start until after the poor start to this season. And that was also coming off of 40 games last year as well. There weren’t a lot of indicators to point towards that before hand. He wasn’t showing a lot and people reacted accordingly with what they were seeing during that time which is why I brought up hindsight. I didn’t misread anything when it comes to where he was at. He didn’t look like he belonged in any capacity his first 50+ games but like LG said in an above post, it really doesn’t matter how we got here. It looks like he’s figuring it out nicely now.

No, people didn't react properly. He was an 18 year old kid, in a new environment, with one of the biggest franchises in the world, and needed to adapt. It's not really rocket science, but people on this site are so bored that they go straight to drama and negativity. No patience whatsoever.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I disagree.

Tripling down. I've done that too sometimes. For example, thinking Petry would be a big help to this club and that we should have held onto him this past summer. But I stopped before quadrupling.

The narrative that the points would come with the way he was playing didn’t start until after the poor start to this season.

No, there were many of us who saw the coming impact last year. There were more after the exhibition games this year, then the first two games with Dach shot the poll number backing 'NHL' to 50%.

Oh and the idea that he had a poor start to this season is precisely what is in dispute. You continue to say it as if it was a fact, but neither the coaches nor Slaf's teammates agreed.

And that was also coming off of 40 games last year as well. There weren’t a lot of indicators to point towards that before hand. He wasn’t showing a lot and people reacted accordingly with what they were seeing during that time which is why I brought up hindsight.

There weren't a lot of indicators to you, and certain others. You were not alone! But others saw many indicators, and it would help prevent the debate from regressing if you accepted that.

I didn’t misread anything when it comes to where he was at.

You are entitled to think so. Hey there is still a Flat Earth Society.

He didn’t look like he belonged in any capacity his first 50+ games but like LG said in an above post, it really doesn’t matter how we got here. It looks like he’s figuring it out nicely now.

As we can see, bottom line players often don't produce right away. EVEN with slow-to-come production, Slaf was a better choice to play in the NHL bottom 6 than Roy, Heineman, Farrell, Pezzetta, even Ylonen.

The issue debated at length was more about whether the NHL was the right place for him to grow from a bottom 6 player to a top 6 player. I would think that debate would be closed by now, but technically someone could argue that had he started this season in the AHL like Shane Wright, he'd be in the top 50 of the league in ppg after his recall and the NHL actually held him back. However, it's something I won't spend much time debating at this point.

Slaf has officially played 82 games.

I believe I originally had said I’d be pretty happy if he got 30 points in his first season. He winds up with 9 goals and 26 points.

No bad at all.

Incidentally he has 4 goals and 14 points in his last 28 games so - unsurprisingly- he’s trending upwards.

Good take.

 

[SOLR]

Tell me exactly why you have to have a centre in 3 on 3 OT. Win the faceoff and get off the ice. But two wingers can easily play. You’re not icing the puck in that situation. Yet one provides zero offence, has no future with the team and has 3x more TOI. So yeah, they are competing.

And what happens if you ice the puck? Who plays man-to-man vs. the opposition's best centres?

Evans plays a shutdown role in OT, because we only have 1 good player in the middle, so he can't play all the time. They are not competing at all, different roles.

Your point about the future is moot because Slaf is progressing rapidly. Playing him in all situations he's not ready for is exactly what might chip away at his confidence level, what they are trying to boost.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Tripling down. I've done that too sometimes. For example, thinking Petry would be a big help to this club and that we should have held onto him this past summer. But I stopped before quadrupling.



No, there were many of us who saw the coming impact last year. There were more after the exhibition games this year, then the first two games with Dach shot the poll number backing 'NHL' to 50%.

Oh and the idea that he had a poor start to this season is precisely what is in dispute. You continue to say it as if it was a fact, but neither the coaches nor Slaf's teammates agreed.



There weren't a lot of indicators to you, and certain others. You were not alone! But others saw many indicators, and it would help prevent the debate from regressing if you accepted that.



You are entitled to think so. Hey there is still a Flat Earth Society.



As we can see, bottom line players often don't produce right away. EVEN with slow-to-come prodcution, Slaf was a better choice to play in the NHL bottom 6 than Roy, Heineman, Farrell, Pezzetta, even Ylonen.

The issue debated at length was more about whether the NHL was the right place for him to grow from a bottom 6 player to a top 6 player. I would think that debate would be closed by now, but technically someone could argue that had he started this season in the AHL like Shane Wright, he'd be in the top 50 of the league in ppg after his recall and the NHL actually held him back. However, it's something I won't spend much time debating at this point.


Good take.

Tripling down on a bad take would be what you did in the PLD thread when I brought up all the red flags with the player and you weren’t having any of it. I do stand by what I said. Thinking that a struggling 18-19 year old may be better served playing in a lower league is not a bad take regardless if Slafkovsky is able to develop in the NHL.

 

[waitin425]

Last week we saw a tweet showing Slaf working with the Shot Dr. on a quicker release.

Last night we saw Slaf take 6 shots, and have more of a nose for the net.

He is getting better consistently, listening to his coaches, and applying what he is learning.

All good signs.

Tripling down on a bad take would be what you did in the PLD thread when I brought up all the red flags with the player and you weren’t having any of it. I do stand by what I said. Thinking that a struggling 18-19 year old may be better served playing in a lower league is not a bad take regardless if Slafkovsky is able to develop in the NHL.

That is a hypothesis only, and a hypothesis that will never be tested in terms of Slaf. We will never know the answer to your thinking, and it is best for everyone if we all drop the AHL vs NHL debate relative to Slaf.

 

[HomaridII]

The growth in confidence is evident to anyone watching except Sportsnet. He is slowly carrying the puck more, dumping it in and chasing it himself, retrieving and passing.

At 19 he is already impossible to handle by anyone in this league. Again last night nobody could handle him on the boards or in front of the net. When he decides he wants the puck, you might as well give it to him. He is an elite passer and will only get better with time.

I know it has been said many times, but I can't wait 2-3 years.

 

[Andy]

Maybe I misunderstood the poster, but to claim that the positivity in Slaf's game is hindsight is pure BS.

There was a large contingent here that saw Slaf's skills even when he was still raw and going pointless.

As I have been saying since the beginning, you get concerned with prospects when there is stagnation or regression. On the aggregate since game one, he's only been trending positive. It's amazing to watch him develop because he's actually improving on various areas of his game. It signals that he is a sponge and has the talent to actually refine his flaws. I mean just look at his defensive game. He went from completely raw to one of the best defensive forwards on the club in like 30 games. He looks like a vet in the defensive zone.

I'm still not sure what his ceiling is, but he's definitely not close to it.

 

[waitin425]

I'm still not sure what his ceiling is, but he's definitely not close to it.

It's exciting to think about. After watching last nights game, I think if he rode shotgun with a guy like MacKinnon, Rantanen would be his best comparable at this time.

 

[Naslundforever]

The growth in confidence is evident to anyone watching except Sportsnet. He is slowly carrying the puck more, dumping it in and chasing it himself, retrieving and passing.

At 19 he is already impossible to handle by anyone in this league. Again last night nobody could handle him on the boards or in front of the net. When he decides he wants the puck, you might as well give it to him. He is an elite passer and will only get better with time.

I know it has been said many times, but I can't wait 2-3 years.

He just needs to learn how to take face offs now so we don’t have to face palm watching a guy who scores three goals on a good year play 3v3 anymore.

And a proper right winger for 5v5 play.

 

[Scriptor]

so, what are our expectations for the next 82 games?
40++ points? along with all the good stuff he brings to the plate off the puck.

My expectations for next season, based on a healthy roster (aye, there's the rub), would be 40 points or more for Slafkovsky, whether he plays with Suzuki and Caufield, or Dach and someone else. I'd be even more convinced of it if, somehow, Hughes hits one out of the park during the offseason and adds another legitimate scorer to the young core that would provide serious top-9 depth that brings some insurance for the top-6 in case of injuries.

If we take an AHL-first approach to development in Montreal, at least until the trade deadline every year, based on progress in Laval and the continuous dumping of bad contracts at that point, weight have uninteresting environment in which for Slafkovsky to continue his progress.

Start of year potential lineup:

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Dach - XXX
RHP/Ylonen - Dvorak - Anderson
Armia - Evans - Gallagher/Ylonen

Matheson - Guhle
Struble - Savard
Harris - Barron/Kovacevic

In Laval, you would have Roy, waiting to move full time to the NHL and Beck honing his skills at the professional level as Dvorak gets shopped around in the last year of his contract.

A. Xhekaj, Mailloux, Hutson and Reinbacher would form the top-4 in Laval as Savard -- and possibly Matheson - would be shopped around (it'salsopossible that Matheson only gets traded in the offseason leading to the final year of his contract (after next season), or at the trade deadline that year.

By the deadline, with trades and call-ups, we could see a wholesale change in the lineup to round out the year.

I'd personally see Hutson finish the season in Laval and Matheson being moved in the offseason.

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Dach - XXX
Roy - Beck - Anderson
RHP - Evans - Ylonen
Gallagher, Pezzetta

Matheson - Reinbacher
Guhle - Struble
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Harris, Barron

Two seasons removed from that, we could see our 2024 first round pick (ideally Lindstrom, at the rank we will likely be picking, or Celebrini, if we win the lottery) in the lineup with an impact and Hughes adding a veteran RHD to play with Hutson.

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Lindstrom - Dach - XXX
Newhhook - Beck - Roy/Anderson
RHP - Evans - Anderson/Roy
Ylonen, Gallagher

Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - Struble
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Harris, Barron

-OR-

Caufield - Suzuki - Dach (eventual second line)
Lindstrom - Celebrini - Slafkovsky (eventual first line)
Newhhook - Beck - Roy/Anderson (Anderson eventually traded)
RHP - Evans - Anderson/Roy
Ylonen, Gallagher (Gallagher dies with the team)

Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - Struble
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Harris, Barron

With the addition oft skilled and physical top-6 wingers, or atop-6 winger and Celebrini, the Habs should have a strong, promising lineup within three years and attack that 4th year with purpose.

 

[417]

Last week we saw a tweet showing Slaf working with the Shot Dr. on a quicker release.

Last night we saw Slaf take 6 shots, and have more of a nose for the net.

He is getting better consistently, listening to his coaches, and applying what he is learning.

All good signs.


That is a hypothesis only, and a hypothesis that will never be tested in terms of Slaf. We will never know the answer to your thinking, and it is best for everyone if we all drop the AHL vs NHL debate relative to Slaf.

It's almost like...he's developing in the NHL.

Fascinating development (no pun intended).

 

[SOLR]

Maybe I misunderstood the poster, but to claim that the positivity in Slaf's game is hindsight is pure BS.

There was a large contingent here that saw Slaf's skills even when he was still raw and going pointless.

As I have been saying since the beginning, you get concerned with prospects when there is stagnation or regression. On the aggregate since game one, he's only been trending positive. It's amazing to watch him develop because he's actually improving on various areas of his game. It signals that he is a sponge and has the talent to actually refine his flaws. I mean just look at his defensive game. He went from completely raw to one of the best defensive forwards on the club in like 30 games. He looks like a vet in the defensive zone.

I'm still not sure what his ceiling is, but he's definitely not close to it.

I don't think this is true at all, he did go through a wall last year. It was a shock and every step he took was taking him backyards. He arrived this year with the needed changes to how to play with his head up, how to look at the play, and since it's been up and up because he can see what is happening.

 

[Scriptor]

BTW, it's annoying to read page after page of personal arguments that read as a heated he said/she said drama.

Please consider other readers and just let it drop -- or take your tiff to private messages -- so that we can talk hockey without getting interrupted by that drivel.

I don't think this is true at all, he did go through a wall last year. It was a shock and every step he took was taking him backyards. He arrived this year with the needed changes to how to play with his head up, how to look at the play, and since it's been up and up because he can see what is happening.

They worked on that with Nicolas last year as well. It's an ongoing processs with Slafkovsky and, from all accounts, he's a good pupil, intent on getting better.

Since he has skills, that only means he should keep getting better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Maybe I misunderstood the poster, but to claim that the positivity in Slaf's game is hindsight is pure BS.

There was a large contingent here that saw Slaf's skills even when he was still raw and going pointless.

As I have been saying since the beginning, you get concerned with prospects when there is stagnation or regression. On the aggregate since game one, he's only been trending positive. It's amazing to watch him develop because he's actually improving on various areas of his game. It signals that he is a sponge and has the talent to actually refine his flaws. I mean just look at his defensive game. He went from completely raw to one of the best defensive forwards on the club in like 30 games. He looks like a vet in the defensive zone.

I'm still not sure what his ceiling is, but he's definitely not close to it.

I think he’s been up and down. Started in his first year okay but dropped off - along with the rest of the club when it went into the deep freeze. And he was consistently rocked with big hits.

Second year he started off amazing in the preseason with Dach. Dach goes down and Slaf looked pretty lost for a while until he was put on the top line. That line lasted for exactly one game but he was still with Caufiled and played very well. Didn’t get the points he should but he played strong hockey until that line was reunited later on and he’s only gotten better.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Even though it would be nice to see Slaf shoot and score more from distance, the way he is scoring in front of the net is highly replicable. He is finding a consistent way to score goals. He has a powerful shot though, gonna be fun when that part of his game comes online.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Even though it would be nice to see Slaf shoot and score more from distance, the way he is scoring in front of the net is highly replicable. He is finding a consistent way to score goals. He has a powerful shot though, gonna be fun when that part of his game comes online.

That will come IMO, he is getting more and more comfortable out there and realizing he has time. If Slaf keeps this progression going, my God get out of his way!!!

 

[Goalfield13]

One of the best things about Slaf playing with Cole and Nick is the fact that his natural style of play compliments them perfecttly. He is exactly what they needed, and the revolving door of players in that spot can now stop. Unlike many others who tried to play on this line, Slaf doesn't need to force anything. He would be playing like this on any line, with any linemates,

If he can play at a .6 PPG for the rest of the year, which is realistic playing with Cole and Nick, that's a 40 point season. That would be awesome.

 

[Andy]

I don't think this is true at all, he did go through a wall last year. It was a shock and every step he took was taking him backyards. He arrived this year with the needed changes to how to play with his head up, how to look at the play, and since it's been up and up because he can see what is happening.

Again, I disagree. There was too much focus on Slaf from shift-to-shift. He was very raw and there was no doubt he was going to have difficulty. Despite those individual bad moments, it was clear he was learning from game-to-game.

His overall trend line has been positive since his first game in the nhl. He had a lot to learn and HAS been learning it. That is what you want to see. He doesn't get rocked anymore, he can carry the puck through the neutral zone, he's tough to play on the boards, his passes are no longer behind the play, his defensive game is one of the best on the team, he's now super engaged on the forecheck.

These are all aspects he's been working on over the last 82 games. The aggregate has been positive despite the individual ups and downs from game to game. And he's been showing a propensity to continue to improve.

 

[Jaaanosik]

You’re suffering from a pretty serious case of main character syndrome. I used one quote of yours as an example of a poster dishing out crow soup for a player that has 26 points in 82 NHL games. You’re way ahead of yourself. When you start attacking posters who have tried to give honest opinions on what they’ve been watching the past 1-2 years, you’re just as or more toxic then the people you’re trying to call out. It’s hard to have a good debate or honest discussion when people like you are sitting around waiting to label you as a hater whenever you say something that may go against what you think. Just because people weren’t impressed with Slafkovsky before the past few months doesn’t mean that their minds were made up. And the overall tone in these threads lately have been extremely positive because he has showed growth and is starting to show the potential that made him the top pick in his draft. He did not look good last year or the beginning of this season and the concern was warranted regardless of how old he is. A lot of the people that were “hating” were mostly slamming the development route because it makes no sense to keep a player in the NHL if he doesn’t look ready. He’s turned it around really nicely but that doesn’t mean the people who didn’t have the benefit of hindsight were wrong either.

It appears the people with the foresight were better armchair experts.
Who needs the benefit of hindsight?

 

[admiralcadillac]

Here you go. History rewritten. And I was only saying things I saw honestly. And here's proof. It's not my issue if you or others didn't see the same, steady progress I and others saw this kid was making. TBH, I was shocked reading posts that couldn't see what this kid was becoming. It was obvious to me and sometimes it felt like the Twilight Zone to read "no skills, can't skate, no IQ, lost on the ice, dumb, bambi part 2 etc, etc, etc...".

Now keep in mind I went on self imposed exile for years from all hockey boards, so there is nothing from last year. But I saw the same talent in this kid, and that he just needed time to sync with the NHL pace. And I chose to cut off at mid Nov so you wouldn't find any excuse to say that I was cherry picking. BTW, you happen make quite a "splash" in a couple of these posts, hahaha.

Enjoy.

I’ve always wanted to do just this. I hate it when I’m told to go look at earlier posts that say the exact opposite of what a poster is saying now.

 

[SOLR]

Again, I disagree. There was too much focus on Slaf from shift-to-shift. He was very raw and there was no doubt he was going to have difficulty. Despite those individual bad moments, it was clear he was learning from game-to-game.

His overall trend line has been positive since his first game in the nhl. He had a lot to learn and HAS been learning it. That is what you want to see. He doesn't get rocked anymore, he can carry the puck through the neutral zone, he's tough to play on the boards, his passes are no longer behind the play, his defensive game is one of the best on the team, he's now super engaged on the forecheck.

These are all aspects he's been working on over the last 82 games. The aggregate has been positive despite the individual ups and downs from game to game. And he's been showing a propensity to continue to improve.

I'm not saying, in the aggregate, facing his wall isn't positive. But that wall was more than an "up and down", it was an habit that he had to overcome in fundamental ways in order to progress.

 

[Jaaanosik]

I think he’ll pace for around .5 per game the rest of the way. Next year? Let’s hope for a 40-50 point season.

I call for ppg the next year.
Who is with me?