Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[Heffyhoof]

We as Habs fans better hope that Slaf has a Byfield type of development path, beacause as of now, he's trending to be amongst the worst 1st over all picks in the history of the entry draft.

I don't see how any fan who is being honest with himself can be happy with what we have seen so far with Slafkovsky.

Oddly enough, I'm perfectly able to be happy, weird that. It probably has something to do with having realistic expectations for the player and the fact I see his progress as progress, not a reason to whine that he needs to progress.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We as Habs fans better hope that Slaf has a Byfield type of development path, beacause as of now, he's trending to be amongst the worst 1st over all picks in the history of the entry draft.

Not really. He’s played less than 60 games and isn’t far off what Hughes did in his first 60. Seriously the trolls coming in here screaming about points pace should be ignored. The guy is barely out the door in his NHL career.

We’ve seen nice progression and at this stage it’s all that matters. He’s become an effective NHL player and hasn’t even had a full season yet. We need to have patience on this. I’m not saying he’s going to be a star player but it’s far to soon to make conclusive statements on what he’ll be.

 

[boxbox]

By no means give up on the kid or label him a bust. He will come around.

As the old saying goes "You CAN teach skill but you CAN'T teach size".

I feel like a lot of people here overestimated his skill level, I am not suggesting he isn't skilled, he has skill and lots of it but it's not elite skill such as Jack Hughes or Stutzle have. He was never labeled as Hughes in Byfuglien's body. His size has always been his biggest asset. How players use size to their advantage in Euro/International hockey on bigger rinks differs significantly to North American hockey on smaller rinks. The game is more physical and the smaller sized ice surface requires quicker reaction times making the game as whole to be faster.

It wasn't really until about a year or so ago he started playing regularly on smaller rinks and with that began adopting/adjusting to a different style of hockey. Those types of adjustments take time and for a player that doesn't exactly possess the elite skill or speed etc. as further/additional focal points of discussion, the type of criticism ( fair and unfair) , overreactions by some fans and unrealistic expectations of/from him tend to be part of the process.

 

[ReHabs]

Not really. He’s played less than 60 games and isn’t far off what Hughes did in his first 60. Seriously the trolls coming in here screaming about points pace should be ignored. The guy is barely out the door in his NHL career.

To use your favourite word: BS.

Either PPG and pace should be “ignored” or not. Make up your mind. He’s at the bottom of scoring pace among top drafted forwards of the last 20+ years.

We’ve seen nice progression and at this stage it’s all that matters. He’s become an effective NHL player and hasn’t even had a full season yet. We need to have patience on this. I’m not saying he’s going to be a star player but it’s far too soon to make conclusive statements on what he’ll be.

Either conclusive statements (“He’s become an effective NHL player…”) can be made or it is too soon. Make up your mind.

You want it both ways but it can’t be.

 

[ReHabs]

By no means give up on the kid or label him a bust. He will come around.

As the old saying goes "You CAN teach skill but you CAN'T teach size".

I feel like a lot of people here overestimated his skill level, I am not suggesting he isn't skilled, he has skill and lots of it but it's not elite skill such as Jack Hughes or Stutzle have. He was never labeled as Hughes in Byfuglien's body. His size has always been his biggest asset. How players use size to their advantage in Euro/International hockey on bigger rinks differs significantly to North American hockey on smaller rinks. The game is more physical and the smaller sized ice surface requires quicker reaction times making the game as whole to be faster.

It wasn't really until about a year or so ago he started playing regularly on smaller rinks and with that began adopting/adjusting to a different style of hockey. Those types of adjustments take time and for a player that doesn't exactly possess the elite skill or speed etc. as further/additional focal points of discussion, the type of criticism ( fair and unfair) , overreactions by some fans and unrealistic expectations of/from him tend to be part of the process.

This is a very good comment.

I think on my part, and I’m surely not alone, I expected to see some elite skill. I felt entitled to seeing some elite skill in the 1OA.

I now accept that none of the supposed top5 2022 draftees had game-breaker written all over them but Wright had a good shot, Cooley had dangles, Jiricek’s production was off the charts… what did Slaf have? Size + production in three tournaments. He didn’t have and seemingly doesn’t have a single elite skill but the package is enticing.

Playing in AHL isn’t happening so we have had to, for most of the past however many games, just grin and bear watching this tall drink of water struggle and eat big hits and accomplish little else. It seems he’s on the verge of hitting a new level so that’s undoubtedly good.

If he ‘puts it together’ then he will be a force on the ice even if he doesn’t have elite skills in any particular aspect. I think this reflects a change in my opinion of Slafkovsky. I think the “he’s not the typical 1OA but we have to approve of him being rushed into the NHL (like other 1OAs)” argument makes more sense to me now. For Slaf to succeed he needs to put in together in the NHL, at NHL speeds. He’s never going to dominate any league in which he finds himself. He’s not that sort of player. But he can be a game-breaker due to his size and reach alone so the sooner he adapts to the NHL the better.

 

[Shawnathon]

This is a very good comment.

I think on my part, and I’m surely not alone, I expected to see some elite skill. I felt entitled to seeing some elite skill in the 1OA.

I now accept that none of the supposed top5 2022 draftees had game-breaker written all over them but Wright had a good shot, Cooley had dangles, Jiricek’s production was off the charts… what did Slaf have? Size + production in three tournaments. He didn’t have and seemingly doesn’t have a single elite skill but the package is enticing.

Playing in AHL isn’t happening so we have had to, for most of the past however many games, just grin and bear watching this tall drink of water struggle and eat big hits and accomplish little else. It seems he’s on the verge of hitting a new level so that’s undoubtedly good.

If he ‘puts it together’ then he will be a force on the ice even if he doesn’t have elite skills in any particular aspect. I think this reflects a change in my opinion of Slafkovsky. I think the “he’s not the typical 1OA but we have to approve of him being rushed into the NHL (like other 1OAs)” argument makes more sense to me now. For Slaf to succeed he needs to put in together in the NHL, at NHL speeds. He’s never going to dominate any league in which he finds himself. He’s not that sort of player. But he can be a game-breaker due to his size and reach alone so the sooner he adapts to the NHL the better.

You’re really good at making sarcastic backhanded compliments. Just own you don’t like Slafkovsky. Don’t act fake.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I’d say it says more about the old regime that they used to do this. So incredibly dumb.

Said it before and I’ll say it again, no doubt that Joshua Roy would’ve been on our 4th line by now getting five minutes a night under MT/MB. Huston probably would’ve been called up too.

Roy is having trouble defensively in the AHL so yes, he would have been highly restricted in the NHL by the likes of Therrien, Julien, Ducharme.

 

[BaseballCoach]

This is a very good comment.

I think on my part, and I’m surely not alone, I expected to see some elite skill. I felt entitled to seeing some elite skill in the 1OA.

Unfortunately, many fans felt entitled after the poor 2021-22 season.

I now accept that none of the supposed top5 2022 draftees had game-breaker written all over them but Wright had a good shot, Cooley had dangles, Jiricek’s production was off the charts… what did Slaf have? Size + production in three tournaments. He didn’t have and seemingly doesn’t have a single elite skill but the package is enticing.

Agree. A solid top 6 winger with a history of producing in big tournaments is enticing.. He has not played three quarters of a season yet and is already on our second line (though barely) and PP2. Progress is not super-fast but honestly if this is where he is at 60 NHL games, it is not that slow either.

If he ‘puts it together’ then he will be a force on the ice even if he doesn’t have elite skills in any particular aspect. I think this reflects a change in my opinion of Slafkovsky. I think the “he’s not the typical 1OA but we have to approve of him being rushed into the NHL (like other 1OAs)” argument makes more sense to me now. For Slaf to succeed he needs to put in together in the NHL, at NHL speeds. He’s never going to dominate any league in which he finds himself. He’s not that sort of player. But he can be a game-breaker due to his size and reach alone so the sooner he adapts to the NHL the better.

I have been saying this for a while. Slafkovsky needs to adapt to the NHL and there is only one way to do that. Start in October 2022 or start later, there is still only one way to do that. The AHL is not a trampoline that would speed up the process. In that sense a portion of the ones who wanted him sent down were impatient.

 

[ReHabs]

You’re really good at making sarcastic backhanded compliments. Just own you don’t like Slafkovsky. Don’t act fake.

I don’t think my tune has changed one bit. I don’t like prospects like Slafkvosky and would have never used a top3 pick on him. That doesn’t mean I’m blind to his potential as a unicorn, I just don’t believe in unicorns.

It doesn’t mean I want him to fail, either.

 

[Bacchus1]

I have seen some improvement in his keeping control of the puck in the o-zone, but he still gets outworked and stripped pf the puck too often. I am looking forward to him taking advantage of his big body to protect the puck more.

 

[ReHabs]

Unfortunately, many fans felt entitled after the poor 2021-22 season.

Guilty as charged.

If we can’t feel entitled to a high-skill player with the 1OA, then the GM who sets his team up to fail for a whole season and the fans who cheer on tanking are therefore destructive and counterproductive both.

If you can’t expect a high-skill player through tanking then you should foment an environment where skill is rewarded and given opportunities to thrive.

Digression: Maybe this is MSL’s approach but I see a lot of criticisms of MSL and when I pay close attention I feel like he’s not getting the Xs and Os right. Not sure if building skill and tactics need to be a one-or-the-other thing but this is a discussion for another time.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Guilty as charged.

If we can’t feel entitled to a high-skill player with the 1OA, then the GM who sets his team up to fail for a whole season and the fans who cheer on tanking are therefore destructive and counterproductive both.

If you can’t expect a high-skill player through tanking then you should foment an environment where skill is rewarded and given opportunities to thrive.

Digression: Maybe this is MSL’s approach but I see a lot of criticisms of MSL and when I pay close attention I feel like he’s not getting the Xs and Os right. Not sure if building skill and tactics need to be a one-or-the-other thing but this is a discussion for another time.

Correct, tanking is a losing strategy more often than not. Real world GMs rarely attempt it for a whole season. I don't consider selling at the deadline after trying to compete "tanking".

Some fans have a romanticized version of reality in their heads when they advocate tanking, but again, the league is PURPOSELY structured to only give partial relief to bad teams. The NHL is careful not to over-reward bad teams because it would destroy the incentive structure of any professional sports league.

 

[HuGort]

Slaf following develop curve of Hughes or Rantanen.

 

[Egresch]

How players use size to their advantage in Euro/International hockey on bigger rinks differs significantly to North American hockey on smaller rinks. The game is more physical and the smaller sized ice surface requires quicker reaction times making the game as whole to be faster.

Excellent comment, it is almost impossible to play power forward style in Europe. Bigger rink size and strict refs limits your opportunities, so there is absolutely no surprise that Slaf is just adjusting to that style of play now. We have seen it several times this season- hits on forecheck or good screening job in from of the net.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Roy is having trouble defensively in the AHL so yes, he would have been highly restricted in the NHL by the likes of Therrien, Julien, Ducharme.

And the new regime knew better than to bring him up in the first place. They let him develop in the minors.

 

[Paddyjack]

Correct, tanking is a losing strategy more often than not. Real world GMs rarely attempt it for a whole season. I don't consider selling at the deadline after trying to compete "tanking".

Some fans have a romanticized version of reality in their heads when they advocate tanking, but again, the league is PURPOSELY structured to only give partial relief to bad teams. The NHL is careful not to over-reward bad teams because it would destroy the incentive structure of any professional sports league.

I just read Doug MacClean's book, and I don't think he agrees with you. He made it clear that GMs want to draft one star or hopefully two and you are much more likely to get those in the top 3. He even mentions from his own experience that winning a game can suck in such a situation at the end of the season. So yes, GMs do consider tanking.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

To use your favourite word: BS.

Either PPG and pace should be “ignored” or not. Make up your mind. He’s at the bottom of scoring pace among top drafted forwards of the last 20+ years.

Either conclusive statements (“He’s become an effective NHL player…”) can be made or it is too soon. Make up your mind.

You want it both ways but it can’t be.

The point of course is that it's silly to make prognostications based on 60 games. Slaf had 4 in 5 and suddenly his pace looks much, much better.

 

[ReHabs]

The point of course is that it's silly to make prognostications based on 60 games. Slaf had 4 in 5 and suddenly his pace looks much, much better.

Slafkovsky is on pace for 23pts in his D+2/Sophomore season. I suppose that is 'much, much better' than his previous 10pt pace. Jack Hughes finished his sophomore season with 31 in 56, nearly double Slafkovsky's current PPG.

So does PPG matter or not, make up your mind. You flippantly compare Slafkovksy with one of the most exciting and skilled and intelligent players in the NHL.

I just read Doug MacClean's book, and I don't think he agrees with you. He made it clear that GMs want to draft one star or hopefully two and you are much more likely to get those in the top 3. He even mentions from his own experience that winning a game can suck in such a situation at the end of the season. So yes, GMs do consider tanking.

Doug MacLean was GMing during a more tank-friendly era, to be fair.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I just read Doug MacClean's book, and I don't think he agrees with you. He made it clear that GMs want to draft one star or hopefully two and you are much more likely to get those in the top 3. He even mentions from his own experience that winning a game can suck in such a situation at the end of the season. So yes, GMs do consider tanking.

Absolutely they do. I don’t like the word ‘tanking’ though, I call it rebuilding as it removes the connotation of losing games on purpose. There’s an important distinction there.

Rebuilding doesn’t guarantee a cup. But not rebuilding means you probably won’t win one. Drafting high and trading for picks and prospects SHOULD work. But you have to do it properly. You can’t draft Taylor Hall and then trade him for a box of hamburgers. Not all picks pan out but some should. And if you have volume some will make it.

I suspect we’ll be rebuilding for at least a couple more years. Roy, CC, Dach, Suzuki and Newhook isn’t bad. Add a superstar and it looks pretty damn good. Let us pray.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Absolutely they do. I don’t like the word ‘tanking’ though, I call it rebuilding as it removes the connotation of losing games on purpose. There’s an important distinction there.

Rebuilding doesn’t guarantee a cup. But not rebuilding means you probably won’t win one. Drafting high and trading for picks and prospects SHOULD work. But you have to do it properly. You can’t draft Taylor Hall and then trade him for a box of hamburgers. Not all picks pan out but some should. And if you have volume some will make it.

I suspect we’ll be rebuilding for at least a couple more years. Roy, CC, Dach, Suzuki and Newhook isn’t bad. Add a superstar and it looks pretty damn good. Let us pray.

Slaf is ahead of Roy and then there is Guhle and probably more on D.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Slaf is ahead of Roy and then there is Guhle and probably more on D.

It doesn’t matter.

Bottom line is that there’s a bunch of good players on the way up. None that we can’t point to as blue chip stars but it’s a good base to work with. With some luck someone emerges as a star as is. But I’d really like to add a star forward. We’ll see how the draft goes this year. I suspect we’ll have another December drop off and wind up with a top five by the time the year’s over.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I just read Doug MacClean's book, and I don't think he agrees with you. He made it clear that GMs want to draft one star or hopefully two and you are much more likely to get those in the top 3.

Sure but the problem is that the difference between the quality of player at #3 and say Caufield or Guhle at 15/16 is smaller than the roster quality difference between the 3rd worst team and the 15th worst team. So the team drafting 3-OA is most of the time going to still be behind the team that drafted 15th, providing the 15th GM is also building properly and not sacrificing the future for the present.

He even mentions from his own experience that winning a game can suck in such a situation at the end of the season. So yes, GMs do consider tanking.

Tanking is not rebuilding. Tanking is actively hoping you lose an overwhelming number of games. And that can't be assured unless you lose on purpose while no one else is doing the same.

Just like there are 10 or so teams that might have a shot at the Cup but 9 will fail, the same applies to the 10 worst teams. 90% will fail to be last, and most will even fail to be bottom 4.

And then even among the teams finishing last, only a minority of them will be lucky to have a generational player fall in their lap.

In a professional league, very few teams ever avoid competing. Even Arizona won their last two games of 2022 to enable us to finish last.

 

[Tabarouette]

Kid has been doing vaguely better the past couple of games but the idea of putting him in the same sentence as Rantanen or Hughes is still so wild to me

I think we need to organize a holiday event at La Cage and hire a professional hockey speaker to go over some video sequences of those guys during those "struggle" seasons vs Slaf

put that on Seb's tab

 

[BaseballCoach]

I’d really like to add a star forward. We’ll see how the draft goes this year. I suspect we’ll have another December drop off and wind up with a top five by the time the year’s over.

We might. However, I bet we would have 3-4 more points right now if just Dach had not been hurt, other things being equal. There is a lot of parity in this league, and injuries make a noticeable difference, not just to the Habs, to many teams.

I'm guessing we will finish between 4th and 12th to last.

 

[SlafySZN]

Kid has been doing vaguely better the past couple of games but the idea of putting him in the same sentence as Rantanen or Hughes is still so wild to me

I think we need to organize a holiday event at La Cage and hire a professional hockey speaker to go over some video sequences of those guys during those "struggle" seasons vs Slaf

put that on Seb's tab

Vaguely better, lol.