Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[Shawnathon]

Agree.

There is no bigger red flag than a lack of growth. And we have yet to see it as fans, with Slaf.

I still think giving the protagonist a fair chance involves a bit more patience from us.

It does not mean a free pass. They will be tributary of their decision and this particular hockey decision and what is related will mark their era here.

But we are just way to early to go to conclusion.

At best, we can identify that it is not trending well, but we also have to recognise that we are still in a spot where it could turn on a dime.



Debatable.



There is no incentives from Montreal to do this.

Laf seems capped in his upside.

Slaf is not, although he is in the present performing in a way lower level.

https://preview.redd.it/a-couple-of...bp&s=2e57f5c18311633ff3aa61974afc88646ef3c3d1
EA sports agrees with you.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There is no evidence the draft sucked.

I didn’t say there was. I said that if it sucks nobody will care who was taken first.

 

[Kaladin]

I said we should draft Cooley months before the draft happening. Got made fun of around here.

I said we should draft Michkov. Stuck with my call through the anti Russian hysteria and the character assassination, and the post draft dilution of his skills and the KHL. Got made fun of around here.

Live with your choices Habs fans. This management’s draft policy for its top picks was a disaster in the moment for some of us. And it’s proving to be just as disastrous in hindsight for a lot more of you.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We're wondering if he'd make a mediocre ahl player at this point and you think he should be a first line nhler?

If you’re going to keep him in the NHL, he should play with talented players.

We haven’t found anyone to fill the slot there. So what the hell do we have to lose? Put him there and see what happens.

Lets just think of what kind of message that would send to his teammates. A lot of them want to be first line NHLers too.

What message it sends? Every single player in the lineup but Slaf has gotten a shot. So what the f*** is the problem with trying him there? It doesn’t work? Okay well nobody else did either. We lose nothing.

We’re not talking about breaking up the Punch Line here….

Jagr scored 27 goals as an 18 year old fresh off the boat. I hope we stop using those two in the same sentence soon.

Stop avoiding the point I was making.

The point I made was that there was no hesitation to play him with Lemieux right away. He didn’t have to audition on the 4th line or ‘make his bones’ they put him there to bring him along. As for 27 goals - I could score 27 goals on Mario’s wing. That was the point. That’s why they put him there. They put him there so he’d develop confidence.

Now, does that mean that I think the two players should be compared? f*** no. I’m simply saying that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with putting a player you invested a first overall onto your first line. Esp when there’s an open slot.

Look what happened with CC - instant success. What the hell do we have to lose? If it doesn’t work, send him down.

 

[OnTheRun]

Well you definitely can’t, in the same breath mind you, say the NHL is not a developmental league, while acknowledging you're developing a player in the NHL.

Think that's called an oxymoron

Of course you can, just look at me go.

It's already bad enough that the Yotes picked Hayton over Hugues, now Tourigny is determined to ruin him by keeping him in the NHL when he doesn't have single point in TEN games. Tourigny should read what "Yotes coach" said in Lapresse, maybe he would get the memo that the NHL isn't a development league.

 

[Whitesnake]

Nay you said they would benefit from other teams taking names off the board, and I said it's true for every other teams.

And somehow that ended into an alternate reality scenario.
In our reality the only thing we know for sure about the Yotes pick is they had Cooley ahead of Wright, we do not know where Slaf and Nemec were on their list. So you have a potential case of a team getting helped by names taken off the board here.

You first commented on my point about helping Bobrov select by removing players from the list. 'Cause Bobrov has a shitty record of high picked players. To which you did say who knows if Coyotes didn't have Slaf first (which frankly, I have no idea why you bring that.).

Bobrov has proven nothing. I have no confidence in him. No matter how people see our present state of our prospect pool. People will have a rude awakening.

 

[Whitesnake]

Of course you can, just look at me go.

It's already bad enough that the Yotes picked Hayton over Hugues, now Tourigny is determined to ruin him by keeping him in the NHL when he doesn't have single point in TEN games. Tourigny should read what "Yotes coach" said in Lapresse, maybe he would get the memo that the NHL isn't a development league.

Hayton is 23. Had 43 points last year. Tell me you don't take Tourigny's word when he has in mind Slaf and apply it to Hayton? Hayton needs waivers anyway.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The point I made was that there was no hesitation to play him with Lemieux right away. He didn’t have to audition on the 4th line or ‘make his bones’ they put him there to bring him along. As for 27 goals - I could score 27 goals on Mario’s wing.

No you couldn't, and either could Slaf.

The whole "why not" thing I guess could be entertained to prove a point. Perhaps he'd leech a few points and we'd all feel better about our 1oa pick.

 

[Whitesnake]

So which is it?

As he said...you need a basis. Last year, Slaf had no idea that he had to hold his head high. I'd say that you have a certain basis to build don't you think? He also seems to have to manage his weight.

There's so many fundamentals to work on.....I have no idea how you can build it in the NHL. Makes no sense.

But once those fundamentals are there, you most definately can develop in the NHL.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No you couldn't, and either could Slaf.

Rob Brown scored 49 goals on Mario’s wing.

I could stand in front and he’d ring pucks off my helmet into the net. Yeah I could score 27 goals with him.

The whole "why not" thing I guess could be entertained to prove a point. Perhaps he'd leech a few points and we'd all feel better about our 1oa pick.

The guy has some talent… people are talking like hes Millhouse from the Simpsons.

Put him there if you’re going to keep him up. Give him some time and see how it goes. Absolutely zero to lose. We’re rebuilding anyway so who the hell cares if it doesn’t work? This team is not making the playoffs this year.

 

[OnTheRun]

You first commented on my point about helping Bobrov select by removing players from the list. 'Cause Bobrov has a shitty record of high picked players. To which you did say who knows if Coyotes didn't have Slaf first (which frankly, I have no idea why you bring that.).

Bobrov has proven nothing. I have no confidence in him. No matter how people see our present state of our prospect pool. People will have a rude awakening.

Because removing players from the list help other team, not just Bobrov. I mean, seriously, if they had Slaf at #1 who do you think they would have picked at 3 if he was still available? If the premise is Slaf is a bust, then we did a solid to the Devils, because he was their guy. My point stand even if you can't compute the Yotes, somehow.

 

[417]

As he said...you need a basis. Last year, Slaf had no idea that he had to hold his head high. I'd say that you have a certain basis to build don't you think? He also seems to have to manage his weight.

And that's something that can only be learned in the AHL?

There's so many fundamentals to work on.....I have no idea how you can build it in the NHL. Makes no sense.

I mean you can, its just people don’t want to see it happen at this level unless it's tied to goals and assists. Justin Barron is learning the fundamentals of defending right before our eyes and this is a guy that most thought had a terrible camp and should start in the AHL?

What happened to him between camp and from when he was a healthy scratch, to now?

No trip to Laval for him, but he scored 3 goals so it's F the fundamentals now, even though they are still clearly an issue?

To me with Slafkovdky, it's more of a confidence thing right now, he needs to be put in situations where he can contribute and be rewarded.

But once those fundamentals are there, you most definately can develop in the NHL.

Again not sure I agree here, I think you can learn fundamentals at the NHL level, it's our expectations that kind of muddy the waters.

We expect certain things and when they don't happen, we’re disappointed. But that really has nothing to do with his process, Imo.

I mean how would you even measure whether or not those fundamentals were being applied at the AHL level? Simply with production?

 

[cave troll]

Yes, i expect him to breakout at some point in his career.

I dont think its unreasonable to expect a 19 years old with his skill to eventually breakout.

What skill are you talking about?
Where do you see skill? He is able to pass the puck to his teammate's stick? That's skill? 1OA skill?
Well, Travis Moen used to do that too.
When I read some posters here, I have a feeling that we drafter an unquestionable talent bursting with skill.
Yeah, he'll probably have a breakout in his career, but I wouldn't be surprised that it will happen in some european league if he doesn't get his sh** together.
Guy was selected 1OA and even with ELC contract he earns many times more than he'd earn in Liiga.
Do I see any kind of will to compete in him? Hell no.
19yrs old kid wanting to become a superstar should eat the ice when his shift is on and not playing like a dead fish.
But hey, it's all his linemates fault...or it's all coaches fault...or it's all managemant's fault.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

I wish we could sticky the 2022 draft thread. Lots of gems.

On the main subject

The day They announced that Martin Lapointe was staying and the hiring of Bobrov , you knew it was gonna end like shit.

Lapointe worked with Timmins in the Bergevin era and was completely clueless in a decade.

Bobrov completely massacred the Rangers draft. The only reason why they are good is because Rangers have the easiest job in the world to bring the big ufas.

You mix both, then you get this shit that we have right now.

Then you have Hugues who has no idea what to do. Playing Slaf last season in the nhl was for only 1 reason : Sell tickets.

Then you have the AHL where nobody seems to be learning anything once again.

Then you have MSL playing plugs and overrated veterans or an ahler like RHP who will never be more than a 4th liner on the top line. The only thing RHP did was to f*** us over for better odds at Michkov. MSL aint shit as a coach. He prays that goalies save the day while Monahan Suzuki and Caufield carry everyone else. He doesn't want to sit veterans. Sitting Ylonen or RHP won't do shit.

The entire org is to be blamed about Slaf. At the same time , Slaf isn't showing anything worthwhile to even play him 10minutes a game.


If Reinbacher doesn't work , The "new management" will start getting booed faster than you think this time. There is no Carey Price to save this franchise anymore

Great post.

Hard to feel confident about the future with bust collectors like Bobrov and Lapointe in charge of amateur scouting and an egomaniac GM who apparently would rather ruin the guy he picked 1st overall than admit he handled the whole thing like a clueless clown from the start.

Reminds me of Marc, ego and self-preservation before common sense.

 

[The Real Timo]

Unless proven otherwise, we've replace one country club by another.

That’s what it is beginning to look like. Same club. Different buddies.

 

[Habs]

Unless proven otherwise, we've replace one country club by another.

yeah, they all bring their homies with them, it never changes and it sucks. They could have just used HF to get better picks the last 5 years

 

[Ezpz]

What skill are you talking about?
Where do you see skill? He is able to pass the puck to his teammate's stick? That's skill? 1OA skill?
Well, Travis Moen used to do that too.
When I read some posters here, I have a feeling that we drafter an unquestionable talent bursting with skill.
Yeah, he'll probably have a breakout in his career, but I wouldn't be surprised that it will happen in some european league if he doesn't get his sh** together.
Guy was selected 1OA and even with ELC contract he earns many times more than he'd earn in Liiga.
Do I see any kind of will to compete in him? Hell no.
19yrs old kid wanting to become a superstar should eat the ice when his shift is on and not playing like a dead fish.
But hey, it's all his linemates fault...or it's all coaches fault...or it's all managemant's fault.

Nah it's Anderson's fault, the guy who hits 20+ every year regardless of which line he's on and frequently gets juggled around.

Not like Slaf hasn't produced on every line he's played with or with a ton of different linemates over last season til now. Not like he's getting top six minutes or second wave PP time or anything. Or has never produced at any level except the Olympics that featured no NHLers and juniors in European countries where he was double the size of any other player and largely was never the top dog and played with and against nearly no NHLers.

 

[cave troll]

Great post.

Hard to feel confident about the future with bust collectors like Bobrov and Lapointe in charge of amateur scouting and an egomaniac GM who apparently would rather ruin the guy he picked 1st overall than admit he handled the whole thing like a clueless clown from the start.

Reminds me of Marc, ego and self-preservation before common sense.

When you see management using terms like "project", "long term", "patience","development", "culture", "erasing the muscle memory", "potential over proven skill" and so on, it's clear that the moment they started their jobs the their first goal was to postpone their own firing for as long as possible.
Yes, rebuild takes time. Even if in 2022 we drafted Cooley and in 2023 Bedard it would have taken time.
But with a serious threat of busting the 2022 draft, rebuild can be prolonged for a much longer time.
I wouldn't be surprised if we become the next Sabres whit Bobrov handling our rebuild with his scouts.

 

[Ezpz]

Great post.

Hard to feel confident about the future with bust collectors like Bobrov and Lapointe in charge of amateur scouting and an egomaniac GM who apparently would rather ruin the guy he picked 1st overall than admit he handled the whole thing like a clueless clown from the start.

Reminds me of Marc, ego and self-preservation before common sense.

Tbh it feels more like Gorton is in charge at the draft table based on the videos they showed. Hughes seems to just be the negotiator at this point. Bobrov should have never been hired by an NHL team again. His track record is beyond awful.

 

[417]

Unless proven otherwise, we've replace one country club by another.

That's professional sports, people tend to work with people they're comfortable working with.

 

[Whitesnake]

That's professional sports, people tend to work with people they're comfortable working with.

True. But it can't be detrimental to the performance of the team. AS confortable somebody is, what was Bobrov list of success so that being confortable = performance?

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Honestly would like to see him with another centre. Objectively speaking, he did relatively well with Dach. I'd like to see him with both Suzuki and Monahan to see how he performs. I think it'll eventually happen when Dvorak comes back.

 

[417]

True. But it can't be detrimental to the performance of the team. AS confortable somebody is, what was Bobrov list of success so that being confortable = performance?

Yes it shouldn't influence the evaluation of the people you hire, you shouldn't keep someone if they're shitty at their job just cause your buddies.

But hiring buddies or professional acquaintances if you prefer, is pretty common in sports and life in general.

 

[Kimota]

View attachment 762570

This tweet is making the rounds, find this from a former pro hockey player’s mouth no less. Screenshot in case it is deleted.

Tell us more about his Liiga stats being irrelevant? Hmm.

This is not a five alarm fire yet, Slaf has plenty of runway and time, but it’s certainly indicative of the fundamental problem with drafting “projects”: A lot has to go right and there is no guarantee they ever find the toolbox for their many “raw” tools.

Drafting an lug who cannot think and needs to be taught how to play hockey with the 1OA is Patrick Stefan, Nail Yakupov stuff. I mean come on, seriously?

Hockey historians will certainly be talking about Slafkovsky, Bobrov got it right. Let’s hope it’s for the right reasons.

The last holdouts who refuse to admit Slaf is not NHL-level right now have no grounds to preach patience. You can’t have your way both ways. Either his production doesn’t matter and we should expect him to look like an NHLer in the NHL or production does matter and he’s not NHL quality right now (and has never been so far) so he should be sent away and the Habs have to accept their mistake.

You can’t preach patience when the guy doesn’t look like an NHLer and never has at any point. That’s not patience, that’s the opposite. If he looked fine but was not producing it would be a whole different tone of discussion. But he looks awful and checked out and Jake Allen’s quote in the latest Engels about his improved attitude this year indicate a lot of potentially negative things. A 1OA should not be grumpy, checked out, or overwhelmed 10gp into a season. Zero pride and zero swag so early in his career is unbelievable.

I mean I was impressed by what I saw at the Olympics too but we're not the big boys making the big decisions. Logically seeing how he plays day in, day out should be more important and useful than what he does in a short tournament.

 

[Jaynki]

What skill are you talking about?
Where do you see skill? He is able to pass the puck to his teammate's stick? That's skill? 1OA skill?
Well, Travis Moen used to do that too.
When I read some posters here, I have a feeling that we drafter an unquestionable talent bursting with skill.
Yeah, he'll probably have a breakout in his career, but I wouldn't be surprised that it will happen in some european league if he doesn't get his sh** together.
Guy was selected 1OA and even with ELC contract he earns many times more than he'd earn in Liiga.
Do I see any kind of will to compete in him? Hell no.
19yrs old kid wanting to become a superstar should eat the ice when his shift is on and not playing like a dead fish.
But hey, it's all his linemates fault...or it's all coaches fault...or it's all managemant's fault.

This kind of rejection of Slaf skill and potential kills the flavour of any debate.

Sorry but i refuse to believe that we have all been fooled by Slafkovsky in his draft year and that he has absolutely no skill.

There is a lot reason for concern from if the selection was right to if we are handling it the correct way. But to simply deny his skillset and potential like that is only reflective of a bias.

View attachment 762570

This tweet is making the rounds, find this from a former pro hockey player’s mouth no less. Screenshot in case it is deleted.

Hockey historians will certainly be talking about Slafkovsky, Bobrov got it right. Let’s hope it’s for the right reasons.

This tweet is nothing more than projection.

Jordan Schmaltz is a failed first rounder. He saw his career die in the American Hockey League of desespoir, where he points for Slafkovsky to go indefinitely.

And he played 56 NHL games. Just 7 more than 19YO Slaf.

He is madly insecure and he is projecting his failed career into Slafkovsky.

Every qualificative he used for Slaf are also an excellent representation of his own failure.

If "trusting" MSL and Hughes because of their reputation is not valid, then why should we take what Schmaltz has to say, since his reputation is one of an absolute total bust?
____

As for your quote on Bobrov... Hahaha!