Player Discussion Julien Gauthier

[True Blue]

He was playing well before he was scratched. You also have to take into consideration the possibility that Buch and others could be moved. We don't know what team we are coming back with next season. If we lose some of those pieces Gauthier would be the guy to slide into the 3rd line RW.

He was playing well. But that does not change the probability that even though he may have been playing well, he was still not doing something that the coaching staff wants him to do.

He is not sliding anywhere. He is either here and has earned his spot or he is not here.

 

[Sayba]

That does not answer as to who is better than him at face offs.

What coach is going to start to experiment with taking players that have never played the PK amidst a spring to the finish playoff chase?

As for next year, we can see what happens then. Let's see who Seattle takes and who actually makes the team. Even if Gauthier is not exposed or is exposed and not claimed, he is looking at some competition to see if he even has a future on the team. Which by the day is growing more and more doubtful.

I said next year, obliviously not now. We have 4 centers on this team who can take faceoffs, Howden isn't better than any of them.

 

[Sayba]

He was playing well. But that does not change the probability that even though he may have been playing well, he was still not doing something that the coaching staff wants him to do.

He is not sliding anywhere. He is either here and has earned his spot or he is not here.

Young 6'4 220 lb very fast wingers are a rare breed. I'm more willing than you I guess to find out if he can reach that potential he has flashed.

 

[True Blue]

I said next year, obliviously not now. We have 4 centers on this team who can take faceoffs, Howden isn't better than any of them.

The conversation was not about who is the better player. The conversation was about having the best lineup. Especially in the middle of a playoff chase.

Young 6'4 220 lb very fast wingers are a rare breed. I'm more willing than you I guess to find out if he can reach that potential he has flashed.

Can you point to a single place where I said that I am not willing to find out if he can reach his potential?

 

[McRanger]

That does not answer as to who is better than him at face offs.

He doesn't take faceoffs anymore so what does it matter? He's taken 21 faceoffs in the last 20 games. He's taken less faceoffs than Blackwell. He's taken less faceoffs than Kreider. He's only taken a few less than Lafreniere. He's the guy who takes a faceoff only when his center gets booted out and he hasn't even done that well. Over the last 20 games hes at 38% which is worst than pretty much everyone.

The fact that we rely on him for faceoffs is a myth.

What coach is going to start to experiment with taking players that have never played the PK amidst a spring to the finish playoff chase?

Kreider and Strome have both been better than Howden on the PK. I have no doubt others would be better too but we wouldn't have to test that theory now.

As for next year, we can see what happens then. Let's see who Seattle takes and who actually makes the team. Even if Gauthier is not exposed or is exposed and not claimed, he is looking at some competition to see if he even has a future on the team. Which by the day is growing more and more doubtful.

Gauthier will be exposed and I would be surpised if he is not taken, simply because I don't see any other options. It will likely be between him and Howden and I don't see how Seattle takes Howden, he fails every statistical and eye test there is. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

Either way we probably lose Gauthier, either via expansion and trade, and life will go on. We don't need Gauthier but I still would have liked a more extended look over a player who we know is awful.

 

[True Blue]

Either way we probably lose Gauthier, either via expansion and trade, and life will go on. We don't need Gauthier but I still would have liked a more extended look over a player who we know is awful.

I would have as well, to be honest. I just do not see it as such a big deal. And I can at least see some thought as to why Howden is in and not Gauthier.

I will again go back to, with the full realization that this is nothing but conjecture, the likelihood that what has happened is that he is not doing whatever it is that the coaching staff has told him he needs to do. Even on the heels of the last few games where he actually played some of what appeared to be his best hockey.

 

[JohnC]

I’ve noticed him missing from the lineup as much as I’ve noticed Brendan Lemieux missing from the lineup.

 

[McRanger]

I would have as well, to be honest. I just do not see it as such a big deal. And I can at least see some thought as to why Howden is in and not Gauthier.

Losing Gauthier is not a big deal. Or more accurately it probably isn't a big deal. There is always the chance Gauthier goes on to become a really good player elsewhere. That wouldn't surprise me much, he's got the tools.

But most likely he settles into a lesser role or is out of the league and that's that.

Keeping a bad 4th liner in the lineup once we start really being competitive is also not a big deal, but its closer. A point or two in the standings might mean the difference between home ice in the playoffs or something and a better 4th line could mean the difference. So that is something to keep an eye on going forward.

I will again go back to, with the full realization that this is nothing but conjecture, the likelihood that what has happened is that he is not doing whatever it is that the coaching staff has told him he needs to do. Even on the heels of the last few games where he actually played some of what appeared to be his best hockey.

I have no doubt Quinn has some sort of reasoning for his decision making based on what we can't see, I just can't agree with it based on what I actually can see.

Anyway I've said this before but Quinn isn't alone in having "his guys" who play over others who are, or potentially are, better. Its like every coach, ever. We make it about Quinn because he's so polarizing but its really just the way things are. Barry Trotz, arguably the best coach in the league, had Leo Komarov playing on the top line which is nuts and drove Islanders fans I know crazy. Its just what coaches do.

 

[True Blue]

Keeping a bad 4th liner in the lineup once we start really being competitive is also not a big deal, but its closer. A point or two in the standings might mean the difference between home ice in the playoffs or something and a better 4th line could mean the difference. So that is something to keep an eye on going forward.

Here, I completely agree.

 

[egelband]

I understand that point and I know that's why. I think we have enough to get by without Howden anyway.

I think Gauthier has a real legit shot at being a valuable 3rd line player for years to come on this team and I'd prefer that over having an extra utility player like Howden in the lineup.

I’d sit Rooney. I like Rooney but I think developing Gauthier outweighs the immediate benefit of Rooney. The Rangers don’t agree, obviously. And I understand it. And maybe I’m wrong about Gauthier. But that’s how I’d handle it

 

[egelband]

That does not answer as to who is better than him at face offs.

What coach is going to start to experiment with taking players that have never played the PK amidst a spring to the finish playoff chase?

As for next year, we can see what happens then. Let's see who Seattle takes and who actually makes the team. Even if Gauthier is not exposed or is exposed and not claimed, he is looking at some competition to see if he even has a future on the team. Which by the day is growing more and more doubtful.

True. But also I’m thinking of Gauthier as an asset to develop and leverage. He may well have no future with the Rangers but maybe they could walk and chew gum, so to speak. I appreciate the team disagrees. Or hopefully there’s a plan in place we’re not aware of.

 

[Sayba]

The conversation was not about who is the better player. The conversation was about having the best lineup. Especially in the middle of a playoff chase.

Can you point to a single place where I said that I am not willing to find out if he can reach his potential?

If you're arguing that we need to play Howden over Gauthier because of faceoffs which he doesn't really take and isn't good at and for PK where he isn't really needed then how can you at the same time want to see if Gauthier can reach his potential / develop by playing?

 

[Blais to Win]

That does not answer as to who is better than him at face offs.

We just* went 5-3 without Howden in the lineup. Somehow we managed to get by.

*about a month ago.

 

[Ranger Ric]

I have never understood why Quinn did not give Gauthier a consistent chance.

But as to the expansion draft keep in mind that Guathier was drafted #21 by Carolina in 2016. The GM of Carolina in 2016? Ron Francis. Who could Ron Francis have chosen? Brett Howden drafted #27 by Tampa Bay. Who traded Gauthier? The GM that replaced Francis.

If I'm Francis and I have a chance to pick a guy with whom I am familiar, who is young and has offensive upside or a guy with hands of stone who is a perfectly fine fourth line player with little upside, I think I'm taking Gauthier.

He doesn't take faceoffs anymore so what does it matter? He's taken 21 faceoffs in the last 20 games. He's taken less faceoffs than Blackwell. He's taken less faceoffs than Kreider. He's only taken a few less than Lafreniere. He's the guy who takes a faceoff only when his center gets booted out and he hasn't even done that well. Over the last 20 games hes at 38% which is worst than pretty much everyone.

The fact that we rely on him for faceoffs is a myth.




Kreider and Strome have both been better than Howden on the PK. I have no doubt others would be better too but we wouldn't have to test that theory now.



Gauthier will be exposed and I would be surpised if he is not taken, simply because I don't see any other options. It will likely be between him and Howden and I don't see how Seattle takes Howden, he fails every statistical and eye test there is. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

Either way we probably lose Gauthier, either via expansion and trade, and life will go on. We don't need Gauthier but I still would have liked a more extended look over a player who we know is awful.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If Gauthier is available I think it’s almost a lock Seattle takes him

Previous relationship with GM aside, if I’m building a team I’ll take a chance on a 6’4 power winger who’s a former 1st rounder and still young

It’s a no brainer. And it’s not like the other options the Rangers will make available are all that enticing

 

[True Blue]

We just* went 5-3 without Howden in the lineup. Somehow we managed to get by.

*about a month ago.

And if you replaced Howden with Gaithier, how many more wins would have happened?

 

[True Blue]

If you're arguing that we need to play Howden over Gauthier because of faceoffs which he doesn't really take and isn't good at and for PK where he isn't really needed then how can you at the same time want to see if Gauthier can reach his potential / develop by playing?

My argument is that It.....Just.....Doesn’t.....Matter.

There may be more to Gauhier’s game. I certainly hope so as he as showing a bit more. But right now, there simply is no room for him to show it as he game does bubkas as a fourth liner. And if the thought is that they would rather have a better PKer and face off guy than him playing on the 4th line, it matters very, very little.

 

[True Blue]

True. But also I’m thinking of Gauthier as an asset to develop and leverage. He may well have no future with the Rangers but maybe they could walk and chew gum, so to speak. I appreciate the team disagrees. Or hopefully there’s a plan in place we’re not aware of.

Honestly, feel much the same. But am willing to give a pass for right now, as really all that matters is the chase. And that probably, to be honest, outweighs whatever Eva lie he may or may not have.

 

[Blais to Win]

And if you replaced Howden with Gaithier, how many more wins would have happened?

Gauthier played in a few of those games.

But don't get bogged down in this small fact. Pay attention to all the other stats folks are showering you with about Howden's complete and utter futility.

 

[Sayba]

My argument is that It.....Just.....Doesn’t.....Matter.

There may be more to Gauhier’s game. I certainly hope so as he as showing a bit more. But right now, there simply is no room for him to show it as he game does bubkas as a fourth liner. And if the thought is that they would rather have a better PKer and face off guy than him playing on the 4th line, it matters very, very little.

I'm not just looking at this season.

 

[True Blue]

Gauthier played in a few of those games.

But don't get bogged down in this small fact. Pay attention to all the other stats folks are showering you with about Howden's complete and utter futility.

Let’s boil this down. What one damn bit of difference would Gauthier make playing 6 minutes on the 4th line? About as much as we spend time arguing it.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’m pretty sure the Rangers could thrown one of us out there instead of Howden and we’d have more success

so using that as an argument is laughable at best

 

[True Blue]

I'm not just looking at this season.

Then what is your friggin’ argument? That Howden is going to steal Gauthier’s God given ice time next year, when there is a solid chance that neither is playing for the Rangers?

 

[True Blue]

I’m pretty sure the Rangers could thrown one of us out there instead of Howden and we’d have more success

so using that as an argument is laughable at best

What is truly laughable is believing that either Howden or Gauthier on the 4th line makes a single lick of difference.

 

[Ranger Ric]

I agree that the Rangers are not winning or losing a game because either Howden or Gauthier plays on the fourth line.

My beef is that I think Gauthier has potential, even if there is no room for him on the Rangers, and I don't understand the eight minutes a game and then all of the scratches before Kravtsov got here to be replaced by guys with little to no future. If Gauthier had a fair shot and didn't make it I am fine with that. But I think the team wasted a potential resource in not giving Gauthier a consistent chance and I think the frustration you are seeing about Howden vs. Gauthier really is a reflection on the failure to give a talented player a decent chance.

What is truly laughable is believing that either Howden or Gauthier on the 4th line makes a single lick of difference.