Confirmed with Link: JT Miller traded to NYR for Filip Chytil, Victor Mancini and 1st round pick (top 13 protected)

[noncents]

JT Miller was 25 when the Rangers traded him. My point is simply that you can't make the statement that a player "is what he is" when the player he was traded for is a glaring example of the opposite.

Lol this is incredible

 

[TheWrongWay]

Extracts from a JT Miller interview:​

“I’ve played with a handful of the guys before,” Miller said. “Having a best friend on the team – I don’t think at the start of the year we were thinking about playing with each other, but when the opportunity came, obviously, that’s something for our families that’s really special. For us to be here together, trying to work together to get a common goal – that’s a really cool feeling. We’re both very lucky.”

Until Miller gets settled back into the Big Apple, he’ll be living with Trocheck – something that never was up for discussion.

“I didn’t ask. I just moved right in,” Miller said with a smile.

On the ice, Miller has already made drastic improvements to the man-advantage. In the first two games with Miller on top unit, it has clicked at a remarkable 60%, scoring on three of the five attempts they’ve had.

“I think we’re just trying to get to know the tendencies a little bit,” Miller said. “I’ve played with Kreids and Mika, so I kind of know what they’re doing. I know Bread and Foxy are special players. I’m used to having lefties on the unit, and I’ve got righties on the unit – so I’m trying to get out of the way sometimes and also try to make myself available.”

Miller’s presence has been felt everywhere – on the ice, in the room, and even away from the rink. He’s the guy that they’ve needed – someone who drags everyone into the fight with him. Not only does he have an aura, but he seems to have a ton of gratitude in his second stint with the original six franchise that drafted him.

“The support has been amazing so far, even coming back into town – old friends reaching out, it’s just been a crazy 48 hours,” Miller said. “As I can tell, it’s a good group of guys here and a hungry hockey team, so it was a pretty good character third period by the guys. We’re in a desperate position – we don’t really have time to wait and see what happens. A lot of games are going to be like that coming down the stretch. It was nice to be on the right side of it.”

Full article:

Is J.T. Miller the spark the Rangers needed?

 

[bhamill]

JT Miller was 25 when the Rangers traded him. My point is simply that you can't make the statement that a player "is what he is" when the player he was traded for is a glaring example of the opposite.

I said ABOUT what he is. And in fact though he has never scored more than 45 points I said he may end up being a 60pt scorer. That’s a jump of 33.3%…

JT was traded by the Rangers when he was 24 and had already had a 56 point season. JTs jump in scoring happened after TBL traded him, at 26, which you would THINK would help your argument, except both teams traded Miller because he wasn’t living up to his potential. He wasn’t applying himself. Had a bad attitude. Any of that apply to Fil? Nope. In fact the opposite. The worry on him is concussions, not attitude.

Either way, Miller is the exception, not the rule.

 

[TheWrongWay]

I said ABOUT what he is. And in fact though he has never scored more than 45 points I said he may end up being a 60pt scorer. That’s a jump of 33.3%…

JT was traded by the Rangers when he was 24 and had already had a 56 point season. JTs jump in scoring happened after TBL traded him, at 26, which you would THINK would help your argument, except both teams traded Miller because he wasn’t living up to his potential. He wasn’t applying himself. Had a bad attitude. Any of that apply to Fil? Nope. In fact the opposite. The worry on him is concussions, not attitude.

Either way, Miller is the exception, not the rule.

Absolutely. Relative to that, I watched an interview with JT about a year ago where he was asked why he felt he blossomed so late. Can't verbatim recall his answer, but along the lines of he wasn't mature and fully focused in NY and TB. He seemed genuinely let down by his first stint here, like he wished he'd done things differently

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I said ABOUT what he is. And in fact though he has never scored more than 45 points I said he may end up being a 60pt scorer. That’s a jump of 33.3%…

JT was traded by the Rangers when he was 24 and had already had a 56 point season. JTs jump in scoring happened after TBL traded him, at 26, which you would THINK would help your argument, except both teams traded Miller because he wasn’t living up to his potential. He wasn’t applying himself. Had a bad attitude. Any of that apply to Fil? Nope. In fact the opposite. The worry on him is concussions, not attitude.

Either way, Miller is the exception, not the rule.

This is missing some context. Miller's scoring numbers jumped with Vancouver happened because he got more ice time and he finally got significant PP time. Miller averaged an extra minute at 5v5 on Vancouver vs both the Rangers and Tampa. He did produce better at 5 on 5 as well, even adjusting for the increased TOI - 1.8 pts / 60 w NYR, 1.9 w Tampa, and 2.2 with Vancouver. However in Vancouver his shooting % was pretty crazy for an extended period of time...14.2% on average over 5 years with Vancouver after averaging 11.5% for both NYR and TB. Maybe this is the true "break out" if this continues with the NYR.

His PP TOI / game was even more extreme (1:35 / game NYR, 2:35 Tampa, 3:42 (!!) Vancouver). Unsurprisingly, Miller averaged a ton of PP points with Vancouver... 30 / season on average vs 13 in Tampa and 7 with the NYR. 25 extra PP points is a big part of how a player's production "breaks out".

Agree that Miller is the exception, not the rule. But if Chytil's usage changes (and he stays healthy, I 100% agree with you it;s the biggest IF) it is likely his production will as well. At 5v5 Chytil has averaged 2.0 pts / 60 his last 5 years, basically on par with what Miller did at the same age with NYR and Tampa. In the whopping sample size of 2 games, Vancouver has already played him almost 3 minutes more than he averaged with the NYR.

 

[bhamill]

This is missing some context. Miller's scoring numbers jumped with Vancouver happened because he got more ice time and he finally got significant PP time. Miller averaged an extra minute at 5v5 on Vancouver vs both the Rangers and Tampa. He did produce better at 5 on 5 as well, even adjusting for the increased TOI - 1.8 pts / 60 w NYR, 1.9 w Tampa, and 2.2 with Vancouver. However in Vancouver his shooting % was pretty crazy for an extended period of time...14.2% on average over 5 years with Vancouver after averaging 11.5% for both NYR and TB. Maybe this is the true "break out" if this continues with the NYR.

His PP TOI / game was even more extreme (1:35 / game NYR, 2:35 Tampa, 3:42 (!!) Vancouver). Unsurprisingly, Miller averaged a ton of PP points with Vancouver... 30 / season on average vs 13 in Tampa and 7 with the NYR. 25 extra PP points is a big part of how a player's production "breaks out".

Agree that Miller is the exception, not the rule. But if Chytil's usage changes (and he stays healthy, I 100% agree with you it;s the biggest IF) it is likely his production will as well. At 5v5 Chytil has averaged 2.0 pts / 60 his last 5 years, basically on par with what Miller did at the same age with NYR and Tampa. In the whopping sample size of 2 games, Vancouver has already played him almost 3 minutes more than he averaged with the NYR.

I wish him the BEST. Seems hard working and genuine. If he can stay healthy, become a regular 60 point guy, and improve his D and FOs, I'll be happy for him.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[NickyFotiu]

May not always be ideal but Id rather a guy that hates to lose than guys that are okay either way.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think having someone who runs THAT hot can be good... and bad.

On one hand, you know what you're getting. This isn't a player who is going to be shy about trying to go through his opponent if he has to. To @TheWrongWay's point, this isn't a guy you need to worry about lighting a fire under. Motivation/self belief is not a problem here.

On the other, the last thing you want is for someone to blow the f*** up when you're in a crucial spot or must win situation. That shit is going to reverberate down your lineup and it helps no one. Keenan basically had to have his team's leaders beg him to back the f*** off when the Rangers were making their run in 1994 because his attitude was "" close to blowing what should have been a relatively easy run. He did and they got through it. It doesn't sound like JT is capable of backing the f*** off. He'll apologize when things cool down, but when you're in the heat of a playoff series, thats going to be too late.

I'm with him on taking the hard ass/self belief guy over the one who struggles with it in this setting. Someone who has an even temperament is ideal, but guys who are easily knocked off of their game/struggle with self doubt are going to be completely f***ing useless when the chips are down unless everything goes their way.

I don't think it's a coincidence that of the old "kid line", Kakko has enjoyed the least amount of playoff success. Laf obviously got more opportunity and ran with it last year but he and Chytil have gotten pretty much identical usage and I don't think it's a question who was the better (and more productive) player.

I am still not overly impressed with Kakko, don’t see much difference in him now, so I’ll ask sincerely: when you say success now, what tangible improvement are you seeing in him now vs NY?

I see Seattle falling in the standings and losing more since Kakko arrived:

• SEA 33 games w/o Kakko – .484 pts pct, 4 pts out of playoff spot
• SEA 21 games w/ Kakko – .405 pts pct, 10 pts out of playoff spot

If that’s the measure of success, plunging from bubble to lottery pick, I’ll give you that one. Seattle is now in top 5 pick territory and that is something.

Are you going by Seattle having all of one win against playoff-positioned teams since Kakko got there?

Or are we going by the most illogical and useless stat imaginable, points?

Before answering that, I’ll explain my long-standing issue with points. One, this stat devalues goals and inflates assists as up to twice as valuable as goals by including secondary assists. This is the first broken thinking.

This flawed thinking is shown to be even more idiotic as it’s roughly 5x more difficult for a forward to put a shot in a net than it is for a forward to complete an offensive zone pass:

• Forward off. zone pass completion – 60.09% (sportsnet.ca)
• Forward shot percentage – 12.59% (nhl.com)

Points should never be a thing. Goals should be goals. Assists should be primary only, and their own thing. Especially when shots succeed at roughly 1/5 the frequency of offensive zone passes. This might explain why scorers in most other sports get paid vastly more than players who are heavy assist-only types.

We can also take this assists thing deeper by going into pass type. Sportsnet did a nice break down of this a few years ago, looking at which types of passes most contribute to goals (slot, rush, east-west) vs passes that had the least impact on goals (cycle). They then crossed this data against a player’s pass frequency and pass completion rate.

Which players came out as the passers most impactful on scoring in this Sportsnet CA deep dive in 2019? Crosby was 1, Panarin was 2, and the top ten saw relatively expected names of the day in 2019, such as Backstrom, Giroux, Point, MacKinnon, Kopitar, and Barkov.

So are we doing the broken points stat thing with Kakko? Or look realistically that his goal-scoring in SEA now is slightly up. And will we wait some time to observe if he is growing into a player who can consistently complete passes more likely to lead to goals or will be more the guy compiling secondary assists and completing cycle passes?

Objectively, thus far, I see his goal scoring has improved from 15 gls per 82 games to 19/82. Good on him (but short sample and can rapidly drop, as well). His assists are up, for what little that’s worth for reasons I stated above. If he becomes a guy who consistently makes plays and passes that create scoring opportunities, awesome. Time will tell more clearly on that. He seems to be playing more confidently, which is good to see also.

Beyond that, the dude to me still doesn’t look like anything to lose 3 seconds of sleep over. I’m indifferent and not trying to intentionally be disagreeable. If he flourishes, great. At this point, however, I don’t feel like it was much of a loss, have no clue what his camp wants as far as his next contract, and don’t see much tangible positive impact on his team (they’ve dropped from a bubble spot to a lottery spot, with a 1-10-0 record vs playoff teams since he arrived).

If at some point this all proves otherwise, I’ll gladly admit it. No skin off my ass to admit I am wrong. I screw up and make mistakes like a champion. Just ask my ex-wife if you need a bulleted list.

Not trying to piggy back on this but I want to point something else out.

Everything under the hood with Kakko in seattle has pretty much gotten into the Range that they were with the NYR (and they're actually dropping pretty rapidly, but I don't think thats a reflection on Kakko as much as it is a reflection on how bad Seattle is.)

On ice shooting% (all situations) is still sky high and it's undefeated. Bigger minutes will inheriently yield better numbers but there’s a hard regression in line coming for him and I think we’re already seeing it start to manifest. They aren’t going to bag a goal on every odd man rush they get the rest of the way.

 

[TheWrongWay]

I think having someone who runs THAT hot can be good... and bad.

On one hand, you know what you're getting. This isn't a player who is going to be shy about trying to go through his opponent if he has to. To @TheWrongWay's point, this isn't a guy you need to worry about lighting a fire under. Motivation/self belief is not a problem here.

On the other, the last thing you want is for someone to blow the f*** up when you're in a crucial spot or must win situation. That shit is going to reverberate down your lineup and it helps no one. Keenan basically had to have his team's leaders beg him to back the f*** off when the Rangers were making their run in 1994 because his attitude was "" close to blowing what should have been a relatively easy run. He did and they got through it. It doesn't sound like JT is capable of backing the f*** off. He'll apologize when things cool down, but when you're in the heat of a playoff series, thats going to be too late.

There is an unusual x factor with Miller in NY though ... Trochek.

They are decades-long best friends. If Miller has a looney moment, Tro is probably one of the few players who can get away with telling Miller to tone it down. And Tro likely knows the right way to word and deliver that.

 

[The S5]

I said ABOUT what he is. And in fact though he has never scored more than 45 points I said he may end up being a 60pt scorer. That’s a jump of 33.3%…

JT was traded by the Rangers when he was 24 and had already had a 56 point season. JTs jump in scoring happened after TBL traded him, at 26, which you would THINK would help your argument, except both teams traded Miller because he wasn’t living up to his potential. He wasn’t applying himself. Had a bad attitude. Any of that apply to Fil? Nope. In fact the opposite. The worry on him is concussions, not attitude.

Either way, Miller is the exception, not the rule.

Wow, you really have a need to be "right". My point still stands. There are many examples of guys breaking out later in their careers. That doesn't mean Fil will do the same, but his talent is undeniable.

 

[Atax]

Time for a separate Miller thread?

 

[bhamill]

Wow, you really have a need to be "right". My point still stands. There are many examples of guys breaking out later in their careers. That doesn't mean Fil will do the same, but his talent is undeniable.

What did you say about a “need to be right”? Hahahah. Project much? You inaccurately quoted/paraphrased me. When I’m wrong I’m wrong, but how about me being wrong in what I ACTUALLY said rather than what you are trying to make it LOOK like I said.
And again, guys breaking out AFTER 25 Is the exception, not the rule. JT is an outlier, not the norm. That’s just factual.
I like Fil, I will be happy for him if he (most importantly) stays healthy, becomes a 60 point player on the regular and cleans up his defense and face offs. And if he explodes? Good for him! Great, hard working dude.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

Having someone that goes in and checks in the offensive zone after chipping it in is nice.

 

[bl02]

Having someone that goes in and checks in the offensive zone after chipping it in is nice.

Seriously when is the last time a Ranger did what he did on the Panarin goal?
Maybe Cuylle has done it a few times this year? Edstrom?
You see it nightly in the NHL. It takes effort, energy, guts and some skill. Opposing dmen must hate it because they have zero time to make a play.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Having someone that goes in and checks in the offensive zone after chipping it in is nice.

this is the advanced 3000 IQ future hockey we hadn't been able to figure out until he got here

 

[NickyFotiu]

Seriously when is the last time a Ranger did what he did on the Panarin goal?
Maybe Cuylle has done it a few times this year? Edstrom?
You see it nightly in the NHL. It takes effort, energy, guts and some skill. Opposing dmen must hate it because they have zero time to make a play.

End board play is our biggest weakness on both ends. It is where Florida dominated us. JT helps that. Borgen helps that. We need a lot more though imo. Not just board grinders but guys that actually make guys on the boards pay a physical price.

 

[eco's bones]

I really liked Filip Chytil but he missed practically all last year with a concussion that was hardly his first and this one included a couple setbacks. In preseason I think Dillon walloped him head on....a hit he wasn't really prepared for and he's had a couple of others this year that it looked like he didn't see.....one that sidelined him for a few games and even a couple weeks ago he ran into Schneider. He gets dinged way too often. Even though he's several years younger if I were to bet his career will end before JT's will and he'll have more injury time as well. It's sad but when a player is repeatedly being concussed that's how things usually trend.

 

[noncents]

Edstrom is a forechecker. He's a hockey player. He's part of the solution.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I really liked Filip Chytil but he missed practically all last year with a concussion that was hardly his first and this one included a couple setbacks. In preseason I think Dillon walloped him head on....a hit he wasn't really prepared for and he's had a couple of others this year that it looked like he didn't see.....one that sidelined him for a few games and even a couple weeks ago he ran into Schneider. He gets dinged way too often. Even though he's several years younger if I were to bet his career will end before JT's will and he'll have more injury time as well. It's sad but when a player is repeatedly being concussed that's how things usually trend.

Yea even though Chytil’s chronological age is younger I think it’s easy to make the case Miller’s biological age is younger

 

[Levitate]

Even Canucks fans are already cringing at the hits he takes...

dunno, hope the best for the guy, but I'm not sure he can continue playing that way and not protecting himself