JT Miller Thread

[Bleach Clean]

I would say that the main difference is that the number of people who realized Benning was terrible outnumbered the Benning bros here on HF (don't ask about Reddit though, they were massively pro-Benning).

Right now the pro-Pettersson camp is the majority.

Mind you, it started with more people in the Benning camp and eventually people slowly got converted over the years until it was mostly anti-Benning. We're starting to see that with Pettersson as he continues to play poorly, week after week and people eventually get fed up with him.

That being said, the Pettersson defenders I can at least understand because at one point Pettersson was legitimately elite.

So at least I can understand what they see in him, whereas you couldn't understand why anyone would ever think Benning was competent.

But you are right in terms of the excuses.

There's way too many of them. They change all the time. And just like the Benning excuses, they ultimately boil down to "it's not his fault, it's someone else's fault" or "let's wait and see, it's too early to tell."

To your point, if Pettersson was 32 and Miller was 26, Pettersson would've already been run out of town.

Remember, we're on Hockey's Future Forums. Where a future pick or prospect is worth more than a star player because maybe that future pick or prospect might become a star player!

Silly Rabbit, False Equivalencies are for kids.

For @God:

The results of this led to Miller being traded just 2 days later. He was traded along with Ryan McDonagh to the Lightning. No later than a year and half later, Tampa Bay shipped Miller to Canuckland.

https://www.canucksdaily.com/nhl/ne...g-a-tantrum-at-the-goalie-has-happened-before

 

[PavelBure10]

Love Miller even if he is the problem and has to go. Milsy is one of the only Canucks this year that showed any emotion when Hughes was getting mugged. Love that he dropped the gloves with rat boy when Marchand was spearing Hughes. While the rest of the bench "Blueger/Brannstrom excluded" just watched, it was Miller who was sticking up for the teams best player. Love Miller and its unfortunate that circumstances has come to this. He should of retired a Vancouver Canuck.

 

[TraderJim]

I would say that the main difference is that the number of people who realized Benning was terrible outnumbered the Benning bros here on HF (don't ask about Reddit though, they were massively pro-Benning).

Right now the pro-Pettersson camp is the majority.

Mind you, it started with more people in the Benning camp and eventually people slowly got converted over the years until it was mostly anti-Benning. We're starting to see that with Pettersson as he continues to play poorly, week after week and people eventually get fed up with him.

That being said, the Pettersson defenders I can at least understand because at one point Pettersson was legitimately elite.

So at least I can understand what they see in him, whereas you couldn't understand why anyone would ever think Benning was competent.

But you are right in terms of the excuses.

There's way too many of them. They change all the time. And just like the Benning excuses, they ultimately boil down to "it's not his fault, it's someone else's fault" or "let's wait and see, it's too early to tell."

To your point, if Pettersson was 32 and Miller was 26, Pettersson would've already been run out of town.

Remember, we're on Hockey's Future Forums. Where a future pick or prospect is worth more than a star player because maybe that future pick or prospect might become a star player!

I agree. The problem is that this is how it started with Benning too. A small group saw what was happening and started questioning things and then were routinely attacked for being overly negative or because they "had an agenda against the team".

Hell I got a response in another thread saying that Pettersson is 100% completely innocent in this. How the hell are you suppose to even have a discussion if that's the starting point?

It's the exact same thing that happened with Benning where they wouldn't even acknowledge that there might be a problem.

If those people are right then Hughes is one of the worst captains we've ever had to allow his star forward to be abused by a fellow teammate.

You can't have it both ways. Either Pettersson shares some responsibility or Hughes and the rest of this leadership group have failed abysmally for allowing it to get to this level.

 

[VanJack]

I suppose 'honesty is the best policy'. But you have to wonder where it's actually gotten Rutherford with his candid assessment of where things sit between Pettersson and Miller.

All he's done is ensure that this soap opera will drag on for the rest of the season---or until one of them is traded. It's almost impossible to discount the impact this could have to the play of the entire team on the ice. And it'll continue to be an obsession of reporters in whatever city they do into.

An unholy mess......and a really bad look on the entire organization.

 

[pitseleh]

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I would say that the main difference is that the number of people who realized Benning was terrible outnumbered the Benning bros here on HF (don't ask about Reddit though, they were massively pro-Benning).

Right now the pro-Pettersson camp is the majority.

Mind you, it started with more people in the Benning camp and eventually people slowly got converted over the years until it was mostly anti-Benning. We're starting to see that with Pettersson as he continues to play poorly, week after week and people eventually get fed up with him.

That being said, the Pettersson defenders I can at least understand because at one point Pettersson was legitimately elite.

So at least I can understand what they see in him, whereas you couldn't understand why anyone would ever think Benning was competent.

But you are right in terms of the excuses.

There's way too many of them. They change all the time. And just like the Benning excuses, they ultimately boil down to "it's not his fault, it's someone else's fault" or "let's wait and see, it's too early to tell."

To your point, if Pettersson was 32 and Miller was 26, Pettersson would've already been run out of town.

Remember, we're on Hockey's Future Forums. Where a future pick or prospect is worth more than a star player because maybe that future pick or prospect might become a star player!

The Rutherford interview changed my position the most on EP.

I still think he is injured and was injured during the summer that affected his summer trainig, and anyone who knows their shit will tell you that training cannot be replaced while the season is on.

But.

This Miller / Pettersson divide is something Ive never seen before. And the Rutherford interview is something Ive never seen before.

This is not within the standard events of pro sports. I think I got Millers personality right early. People laughed at me.

I think I got EPs personality wrong. I dont think he fits any of the 'archetypes' Ive come across in my profession. UNLESS something really weird took place between the two players that we dont know about. But this changes the equation for me. The Rutherford interview.

 

[kanucks25]

I think having this type of personality on a team is a good thing. There's a reason why pretty much every ex player that's been asked about this situation says how much they'd love to have JT on their team.

But there needs to be balance in the force. JT probably needs a vet that he respects that will give him rope but can and will shut him down if it goes too far. That guy last season could have been Cole and we don't have one this season. Myers might be a candidate but just doesn't seem like that type of guy.

It's also a terrible look for JT in general when he acts like he'll do anything to win but then goes through stretches where he's constantly making stupid and/or lazy decisions.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Makes complete sense. Miller is a leader in his own right. The fire that consumes also inspires. I get him, and I used to think like him. But there comes a time when impossible drive exhausts those around you. When temperance, even if it doesn't sit well, is the only way forward.

I have a friend like Pettersson too. I know his archetype very well. Flexibility and praise rules the day there. Criticism, constructive or otherwise, is ultimately unproductive. It can all seem so disproportionate, but that's the way he's wired.

What I think has happened here is that Tocchet/JT's understanding with Pettersson has oscillated. They keep trying to motivate via inspiration, teaching and constructive criticism, but only inspiration lands. The latter two aspects have Pettersson overthink or get down. They have to just stick to the positive, as Boudreau mentions.

Motivation is not a monolith.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i’m reading here classic dad mentality, for better and worse

and it’s a double-edged sword. him coming here and assuming dad duties instead of being treated like a barky youngster in new york or an eighth wheel in tampa probably helped him leapfrog on the ice from good player to very good, and then to elite.

beyond obviously being a defensive rock, tanev should have been kept as a guy from the pre-existing power structure that would always be above miller’s head. pearson was reportedly important as an older guy miller respected, and many of us assume that’s why myers is still here. on the flipside, it’s why horvat had to leave.

but i think as jt gets older, and as the other guys like quinn, petey, and demko also get older, what you need isn’t an old guy because now miller is the old guy. what you need is someone who will fight him if needed, but hopefully it never comes to that. i honestly believe tocchet’s reputation behind the scenes initially provided that, and i think zadorov has that bieksa energy. but in the absence of any real pushback, i mean, in our workplaces, in our neighbourhoods, on our kids’ sports teams, we all have seen that kind of control freak dad where he does a lot of good but takes up way too much space and it inhibits everyone else, and then when things get stressful an unhinged side comes out and the community becomes toxic in a way that maybe can never fully be walked back.

 

[ghostingtaro]

nice knowing ya bud

 

[Snatcher Demko]

Aw JT, we're (I'm) gonna miss you. Sad it could not last.

Thanks for some great memories. He was sort of like this era's Bertuzzi.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Top 10 Canuck forward ever.

 

[Icebreakers]

I hope in 15 years Petey or Miller or someone on the team leak the full details of the situation.

 

[God]

im crying

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

so next time we play new york who’s going to fight miller?

 

[SillyRabbit]

Second highest PPG in Canucks history behind Pavel Bure.

One of the best players to ever put on a Canucks jersey.

I have a feeling people will look back on his time in Vancouver very favorably in a few years.

 

[GOONER1]

We will spend the next 10 years trying to find a player like him.

 

[nowhereman]

so next time we play new york who’s going to fight miller?

Pettersson

 

[racerjoe]

Second highest PPG in Canucks history behind Pavel Bure.

One of the best players to ever put on a Canucks jersey.

I have a feeling people will look back on his time in Vancouver very favorably in a few years.

I doubt it, and that isn’t supposed to be a knock on miller at all. But besides last year and the bubble playoffs it’s been a pretty terrible time. Again not supposed to be anything against miller, just the time he was here.

 

[Wildcarder]

There was a game earlier in the season where there was less than a minute left in the game, the Canucks were down by one, pulled their goalie and were setting up in the offensive end. Miller had the puck at the point and made one of those god awful cross ice passes that he was known for across the blue line that got intercepted. The opposing team took it down the ice and thankfully couldn't score (I think Quinn saved it). The puck then got sent right back up to Miller skating down the wing who took a slap shot that went top corner and tied the game with 15 seconds left.

This was JT Miller for me. Could make some lazy plays that made you want to throw your remote in frustration and on the very same shift be that game breaker that made you jump out of your seat. Thanks for the memories JT, good luck in New York.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

A true gunslinger, ala Brett Favre. Led the league in TD's and Interceptions.

 

[Canucks LB]

Miss him already

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Crushing, even worse than losing Tanev.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Does not feel like this series of trades puts us any closer to contending for the cup.

 

[David71]

Wish Miller the best. He was a Canuck and had some good seasons.

To all the people saying we traded the wrong center. I’m not saying Petey doesn’t need to be better but:

Miller traded from NYR to TB because he wasn’t playing defence and attitude

Miller traded from TB to Van and TB wins back to back

Miller v Horvat

Miller v Petey

At some point you have to look at the common denominator.