Joshua Ho-Sang, Center/Right-wing, 1st Round

[Felix Unger]

He didn't even hint about race, so I'm not sure where you got that. I can't speak for him, but "the bail out of jail" comment was just acknowledging that HC tends to want the standard good kid who does nothing out of the ordinary in terms of off ice behavior.

Whether racial or not, to enter criminality into the discussion about a selfish hockey player with a bit of a big mouth (all that can reasonably be said about Ho-Sang) is prejudicial. What one has to do with the other, I honestly have no idea.

Stupidity is often the vehicle for bias, but I'll give Rikker the benefit of the doubt. Rikker expressed himself stupidly. But let's not defend stupidity.

 

[rikker]

Whether racial or not, to enter criminality into the discussion about a selfish hockey player with a bit of a big mouth (all that can reasonably be said about Ho-Sang) is prejudicial. What one has to do with the other, I honestly have no idea.

Stupidity is often the vehicle for bias, but I'll give Rikker the benefit of the doubt. Rikker expressed himself stupidly. But let's not defend stupidity.

i have no regrets about what i said, but i appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. now i can sleep easy, knowing that all is well in Dan-o16 land...

 

[Levi Walking Bear]

Good article on the Hockey News site

www.thehockeynews.com

 

[scott99]

Good article on the Hockey News site

www.thehockeynews.com

Good article, Thanks !

 

[scott99]

Crazy goal by JHS. The kid has sick skills

http://cbsprt.co/1n9Rojt

 

[Felix Unger]

i have no regrets about what i said, but i appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. now i can sleep easy, knowing that all is well in Dan-o16 land...

As always, what people have to say about Ho-Sang reveal much more about them than they do about Ho-Sang.

 

[rikker]

As always, what people have to say about Ho-Sang reveal much more about them than they do about Ho-Sang.

the statement was a generalization. i did not say that Hockey Canada does not want JHO because he is a criminal.

so i'd appreciate if you stop insulting me.

 

[Felix Unger]

the statement was a generalization. i did not say that Hockey Canada does not want JHO because he is a criminal.

so i'd appreciate if you stop insulting me.

I said you expressed yourself stupidly. I didn't call you stupid. You said that Ho-Sang should realize that HC doesn't want players they need to bail out. You didn't call him a criminal.

There is no such thing as indirect expression. I am so sorry as to have not insulted you. And since we've dispensed with pragmatic and implicit meaning entirely, there's no such thing as sarcasm.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Whether racial or not, to enter criminality into the discussion about a selfish hockey player with a bit of a big mouth (all that can reasonably be said about Ho-Sang) is prejudicial. What one has to do with the other, I honestly have no idea.

Stupidity is often the vehicle for bias, but I'll give Rikker the benefit of the doubt. Rikker expressed himself stupidly. But let's not defend stupidity.

personally, to tie a racial issue to something automatically, like jail {racist?} or bad behavior is.....racist.

The world's becoming too PC.....and that IMHO means people aren't being judged by the content of their character yet.....or allowed to be EQUAL. I yearn for a time when we can all be insulted equally and denigrated on our merits and not left alone because it might offend the thought police. THIS FLIES IN THE FACE OF DR.KING'S DREAM!

I am a proud drunken Irishman too cheap to spend my money.




For the record, I see a loud mouth brat who has all the ability but won't shut up and play the game. Shades of Jerry Maguire/Rod Tidwell. Does it make me racist saying so? Part of becoming a professional athlete is ACTING PROFESSIONAL.

 

[scott99]

Can we please get back on topic instead of fighting ?

 

[Darth Milbury]

Whether racial or not, to enter criminality into the discussion about a selfish hockey player with a bit of a big mouth (all that can reasonably be said about Ho-Sang) is prejudicial. What one has to do with the other, I honestly have no idea.

Stupidity is often the vehicle for bias, but I'll give Rikker the benefit of the doubt. Rikker expressed himself stupidly. But let's not defend stupidity.

I don't think he expressed himself stupidly. I fully understood his point. I think people are getting on him unfairly (and that is no disrespect meant to you). I'm not taking sides because you're both great posters who I admire, but I think he is getting jumped on here for a harmless metaphor.

His main idea is that HC is looking for kids who toll the line - kids who keep their mouths shut, aren't outspoken, don't get in trouble (which is what the jail comment was about). They don't want controversy and they don't want players who disturb the dynamic.

Now, we can all say "Ho-Sang is an individual, and doesn't fit that mold..." but that is a poor excuse, IMO. We all set goals in life and sometimes have to suppress our natural inclinations as a result.

Some of you may have noticed that I am not exactly a calm individual. Every day at work, I fight the urge to toss co-workers and students out of my office. I don't do it, because that would make me lousy at my job and would keep me form reaching professional goals. Part of being a grown up is realizing that there comes a time to keep you mouth shut, no matter how much of an individualist you want to be.

I think Ho-Sang has a lot of growing up to do. He needs to recognize that shooting off his mouth every time he is disappointed or feels unfairly treated is not always going to be a good idea. Sometimes you have to shut up and do what you're told.

Frankly, I found this incident to be kind of Nino-esque.

 

[Darth Milbury]

personally, to tie a racial issue to something automatically, like jail {racist?} or bad behavior is.....racist.

The world's becoming too PC.....and that IMHO means people aren't being judged by the content of their character yet.....or allowed to be EQUAL. I yearn for a time when we can all be insulted equally and denigrated on our merits and not left alone because it might offend the thought police. THIS FLIES IN THE FACE OF DR.KING'S DREAM!

I am a proud drunken Irishman too cheap to spend my money.




For the record, I see a loud mouth brat who has all the ability but won't shut up and play the game. Shades of Jerry Maguire/Rod Tidwell. Does it make me racist saying so? Part of becoming a professional athlete is ACTING PROFESSIONAL.

Exactamundo. Well said.

 

[scott99]

I don't think he expressed himself stupidly. I fully understood his point. I think people are getting on him unfairly (and that is no disrespect meant to you). I'm not taking sides because you're both great posters who I admire, but I think he is getting jumped on here for a harmless metaphor.

His main idea is that HC is looking for kids who toll the line - kids who keep their mouths shut, aren't outspoken, don't get in trouble (which is what the jail comment was about). They don't want controversy and they don't want players who disturb the dynamic.

Now, we can all say "Ho-Sang is an individual, and doesn't fit that mold..." but that is a poor excuse, IMO. We all set goals in life and sometimes have to suppress our natural inclinations as a result.

Some of you may have noticed that I am not exactly a calm individual. Every day at work, I fight the urge to toss co-workers and students out of my office. I don't know it, because that would make me lousy at my job and would keep me form reaching professional goals. Part of being a grown up is realizing that there comes a time to keep you mouth shut, no matter how much of an individualist you want to be.

I think Ho-Sang has a lot of growing up to do. He needs to recognize that shooting off his mouth every time he is disappointed or feels unfairly treated is not always going to be a good idea. Sometimes you have to shut up and do what you're told.

Frankly, I found this incident to be kind of Nino-esque.

The problem is, he IS being treated unfairly. Talent wise, he's better than 70% of the guys who will make that team. Why not even give him a chance to prove he is. If he isn't as good, he doesn't make the team. But to totally ignore his talent, and desire to play for Canada is pretty petty on Canada Hockey imo.

 

[Darth Milbury]

the statement was a generalization. i did not say that Hockey Canada does not want JHO because he is a criminal.

so i'd appreciate if you stop insulting me.

Of course not.

Rikker is a good guy. As is Dan-016.

Heck, I only wish that Ho-Sang was as level headed as you guys always seem to be....

 

[Darth Milbury]

The problem is, he IS being treated unfairly. Talent wise, he's better than 70% of the guys who will make that team. Why not even give him a chance to prove he is. If he isn't as good, he doesn't make the team. But to totally ignore his talent, and desire to play for Canada is pretty petty on Canada Hockey imo.

I'm not saying he isn't being treated unfairly, but to me, that is besides the point.

Look at what happened to Okposo this winter. I thought leaving him off the Olympic team was fairly ridiculous - he was way better than probably four or five of the guys taken ahead of him. He could have groused, complained, and made a big stink (as Ho-Sang did) but he stayed level headed, didn't do anything to detract from the team or embarrass the organization, and he stayed on target.

Sometimes in life you get treated unfairly, and you need to suck it up and muddle through.

Nino thought he was being treated unfairly too (and, imo, he was). Did that make shooting off his mouth OK?

 

[rikker]

Of course not.

Rikker is a good guy. As is Dan-016.

Heck, I only wish that Ho-Sang was as level headed as you guys always seem to be....

i admit that i am level headed, but it is more of a physical deformity than a personality attribute.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I'm not saying he isn't being treated unfairly, but to me, that is besides the point.

Look at what happened to Okposo this winter. I thought leaving him off the Olympic team was fairly ridiculous - he was way better than probably four or five of the guys taken ahead of him. He could have groused, complained, and made a big stink (as Ho-Sang did) but he stayed level headed, didn't do anything to detract from the team or embarrass the organization, and he stayed on target.

Sometimes in life you get treated unfairly, and you need to suck it up and muddle through.

Nino thought he was being treated unfairly too (and, imo, he was). Did that make shooting off his mouth OK?

I have also learned this valuable lesson that comes only with age.

I mean, he's 19 so I think we should cut him a break. When I was 19 I was a complete fool... obviously very little has changed for me... but despite that we shouldn't hold it against him. He's a kid who is being treated very poorly by Hockey Canada (and he has for some time).

I still say he should become a citizen of the US and lace them up for the good guys.

 

[scott99]

I have also learned this valuable lesson that comes only with age.

I mean, he's 19 so I think we should cut him a break. When I was 19 I was a complete fool... obviously very little has changed for me... but despite that we shouldn't hold it against him. He's a kid who is being treated very poorly by Hockey Canada (and he has for some time).

I still say he should become a citizen of the US and lace them up for the good guys.

Actually, he's even younger, I think he just turned 18. That being said, I think hockey is a sport that is still back in the dark ages of the 1970's. It's like a double standard in sports. If this was the NFL, I doubt anybody would make a big deal about ANYTHING he's said.

 

[Felix Unger]

I don't think he expressed himself stupidly. I fully understood his point. I think people are getting on him unfairly (and that is no disrespect meant to you). I'm not taking sides because you're both great posters who I admire, but I think he is getting jumped on here for a harmless metaphor.

This is the only point of disagreement. Not only is the metaphor harmful, it is conventionally harmful.

I think Ho-Sang has a lot of growing up to do. He needs to recognize that shooting off his mouth every time he is disappointed or feels unfairly treated is not always going to be a good idea. Sometimes you have to shut up and do what you're told.

Frankly, I found this incident to be kind of Nino-esque.

Completely agree with this, but nobody implied that Nino would need bailing out.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Actually, he's even younger, I think he just turned 18. That being said, I think hockey is a sport that is still back in the dark ages of the 1970's. It's like a double standard in sports. If this was the NFL, I doubt anybody would make a big deal about ANYTHING he's said.

He'd be tame for the NFL.

 

[IceAce]

stop arguing and let this amaze you

 

[edmontonislesfan]

Good article on the Hockey News site

www.thehockeynews.com

Welcome back, DREx. You probably described your experiences in Africa somewhere, but I missed it, as I have been away.

Thanks for the article on Ho Sang. The more Hockey Canada snubs him, the more he may be motivated to prove them wrong. Hockey Canada is a very conservative organization (not in a good sense), much like the NCAA in that regard.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

The problem is, he IS being treated unfairly. Talent wise, he's better than 70% of the guys who will make that team. Why not even give him a chance to prove he is. If he isn't as good, he doesn't make the team. But to totally ignore his talent, and desire to play for Canada is pretty petty on Canada Hockey imo.

I'm not gonna make you thrilled with my post but.....

I don't want him on Team Canada.

I love the idea that those chosen to represent the national team exemplify solid character, sportsmanship and dedication.

I don't think he fails in all of these regards, but CLEARLY his attitude is lacking and they elected to have lesser TALENTS who are superior in CHARACTER be on the squad.

I hope he learns one day that character matters.

Case in point: the amazingly talented Theoren Fleury. I didn't want him on my team. I recall the Niewendyck/MacDonald/Loob/etc. Flames and thought he was an amazing find.....and he showed the world how wrong I was. Pint sized....I thought they meant his frame, not his brain.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

This is the only point of disagreement. Not only is the metaphor harmful, it is conventionally harmful.



Completely agree with this, but nobody implied that Nino would need bailing out.

Having seen Swiss Miss hit, I think the only bailing out he'd get were if his parents bought all his girl scout cookies for him.

And FWIW, here's a list of NHL's most embarrassing arrests:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/985525-top-10-most-embarrassing-nhl-player-arrests


And isn't the harm in assuming someone said, "jail," ONLY BECAUSE HE'S BLACK? Especially with the list I provided above only having ONE example non caucasian?

 

[scott99]

stop arguing and let this amaze you

Man, no love for scott99, I posted this further up on the page. I was just gonna say, let's stop concentrating on the alleged negative aspects, and let's start looking at the positives, such as the excellent article posted by Rex, and the great video posted by scott99, but I bow down to Iceage for posting it in gif. form.