Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1” - Part 2

[Micklebot]

Sounds like a guy who's trying to not ruffle feathers early on but wants to be a RWer because he's always been a RWer.

But my point remains. We've committed $5M to this guy and really want him (need him) to be successful. Why not put him in the position where he's the most comfortable?

The guy has had an awesome career at RW. So play him at RW.

It's already an adjustment moving to a new team. It'd take some time to gel on his natural side. Why make it even harder by asking him to do something on the ice that he's never done before?

If we're 15 games in and he's thriving, then sure, start experimenting. But let him get settled first and make it as easy as possible for that to happen.

So, you're taking the exact same quote from the same media scrum, and adding in the columnists comments, odd how it's rearranged too (by the columnist). you've gone from saying he's been upfront about his preference to, well, when you read between the lines it's just a guy trying not to ruffle feathers.

When you look at his offensive production, it comes from all across the ice. I don't think it's as big of a concern as you're making it out to be,

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

We will know soon enough if he is fine.

Playing hurt isn't black and white. When he first hurt his shoulder, he played through it and took contact, but still required surgery. It could very well be a similar situation.

If that is the case, shut him down and get the surgery. Maybe he would be back in time for playoffs.

Losing Norris would be a huge set back to this team, especially since their window to win is now, and they aren't exactly asset rich in order to pull off a trade for a center.

There is also the prospect of a buyout next summer if he is not LTIRetiring, but the team is worried about whether he can still be an 8M player. A buyout is very favourable to the Senators because he is under 26 and his cap hit was higher than his salary for the last few years, so the Senators get a cap credit.

A buyout next year basically gets all his money off the books until 2029-30, when they have a 2.4M cap penalty. Then for the 7 years after that, they have a 1.4M penalty. Given that in the 2030s, the cap should be 100-120 million, that would be a negligible penalty.

If they wait even 1 more year to buy him out, then all of a sudden the cap penalties double. So next year is really the deadline to decide whether to keep him or play it safe with a buyout.

 

[Masked]

Alarm bells if Norris ant play next game

Not with it being a road game in Winnipeg. But the next home game, yes.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

So you equate I haven't done it before, with I'm much more comfortable on the right?

So, you're taking the exact same quote from the same media scrum, and adding in the columnists comments, odd how it's rearranged too. you've gone from saying he's been upfront about his preference to, well, when you read between the lines it's just a guy trying not to ruffle feathers.

When you look at his offensive production, it comes from all across the ice. I don't think it's as big of a concern as you're making it out to be,

I don't think it's a massive concern. I just don't see why they need to put an obstacle in front of Tarasenko to start the season, that doesn't need to be there.

You're right, we don't know if he'll work on the left side. He might. But, he might not. We do know that he works on the right side. So why not just play him there, at least until he gels with the team and gets comfortable in a new organization?

When you look at his 12-year NHL career, it's always been at RW. That's a fact. It's clearly worked for him. But we're going to switch things up right off the bat? Why?

It's like when we traded for Brannstrom, who had been playing the RS in the AHL and for several years in junior. What did we do right away? Moved him to the left.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't ever play Tarasenko at LW. Maybe eventually, that's where he settles. I'm just saying that to start, do what you can to make the transition as seamless for him as possible. And it's clear that'd be at RW.

And if you were dead set on adding a LWer and only a LWer, you should've gone out and acquired a LWer.

And yes, I do think you can read between the lines. He's never said "I don't care what side I play on I'm good wherever". He's said that he's willing to try it, but he's always qualified it by saying he's never done it. That's telling.

 

[DueDiligence]

If this is the case, it's very disappointing how it's been handled.

I can't imagine that this concern would have arisen yesterday, yet, the team did nothing to shore up the C ice position in the summer.

Especially since Pinto is unsigned and will be starting the season from behind.

If there were serious doubts about Norris, why not go out and get a guy like Ryan Johansen, who was traded for nothing with 50% retention?

He can play C and slide over to RW if Norris is good. Wouldn't that have been a better investment than Tarasenko, who we're now trying to make play LW for the first time in his career?

Total speculation on your part. You're basing your whole argument on a 3rd hand dubious source which at face value lacks any credibility.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Total speculation on your part. You're basing your whole argument on a 3rd hand dubious source which at face value lacks any credibility.

Note that I started my post with, "If this is the case..."

 

[BoardsofCanada]

To steal a bit from Overdrive: 50 shades of underpants.

On a scale of 1-50 with 1 being your underpants fresh out of the laundry and 50 being a port-a-potty at a Buffalo Bills game: what is your level of concern that Norris doesn't start the beginning of the season?

Mine is about a 25.

 

[Micklebot]

I don't think it's a massive concern. I just don't see why they need to put an obstacle in front of Tarasenko to start the season, that doesn't need to be there.

You're right, we don't know if he'll work on the left side. He might. But, he might not. We do know that he works on the right side. So why not just play him there, at least until he gels with the team?

It's like when we traded for Brannstrom, who had been playing the RS in the AHL and for several years in junior. What did we do right away? Moved him back to the left.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't ever play Tarasenko at LW. I'm just saying that to start, do what you can to make the transition as seamless for him as possible. And it's clear that'd be at RW.

I mean, we're in preseason, now is the time to see how he adapts risk free, if it doesn't work it's easy to flip him back to the other side.

The goal is to do what's best for the team, if that means a bit of growing pains for him, so be it. We aren't here to make things comfortable for him. We're here to win.

Even if we do opt to put him where you think he'd be most comfortable, it means playing someone else on their off side and you have the same situation.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I mean, we're in preseason, now is the time to see how he adapts risk free, if it doesn't work it's easy to flip him back to the other side.

The goal is to do what's best for the team, if that means a bit of growing pains for him, so be it. We aren't here to make things comfortable for him. We're here to win.

Even if we do opt to put him where you think he'd be most comfortable, it means playing someone else on their off side and you have the same situation.

Well this goes back to the concept of building a "team" vs. bringing in players and then trying to shoehorn into the roles that are available.

But the guy who's played the most LW in his career is Giroux. So I'd try him there first if you want to load up the top 6. I think the best idea, though, would be to split up the RWers across 3 lines.

And more often than not, what's best for the player is best for the team. We'll be a much better team if Tarasenko starts the season producing.

Tkachuk - Stützle - Tarasenko: it'll be the easiest for Tarasenko to fit in with these guys, IMO.
Kubalik - Norris - Giroux: two shooters with a playmaker and Giroux can take faceoffs.
Joseph - Greig - Batherson: Not ideal, but Batherson could be the play driver and you can play this line against weaker competition. Pinto takes Greig's spot if he signs.

 

[DueDiligence]

Note that I started my post with, "If this is the case..."

But then why go on and on with pure speculation??? Unless your a journalist trying to get clicks or sell copies there is no point to go into great depth commenting on hearsay.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

But then why go on and on with pure speculation??? Unless your a journalist trying to get clicks or sell copies there is no point to go into great depth commenting on hearsay.

This is a forum where hearsay is discussed. Ever been to the trade rumors board? I'm not writing a piece for the Athletic.

 

[MoreGore]

If Norris was injured and in need of another procedure, the Sens would put him on LTIR and resolve the Pinto situation.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Tarasenko has been pretty upfront about being much more comfortable on the right side, though. So I don't think he agrees.

Batherson and Giroux seem much more open to playing LW, but DJ doesn't seem keen on it (at least so far).

Tank was lining up on the right side for most of the last 2 games. Sure they switched in shift sometimes, but most face offs he was on the right.

 

[SquidNasty]

To steal a bit from Overdrive: 50 shades of underpants.

On a scale of 1-50 with 1 being your underpants fresh out of the laundry and 50 being a port-a-potty at a Buffalo Bills game: what is your level of concern that Norris doesn't start the beginning of the season?

Mine is about a 25.

lmao Overdrive is the best.

I think he starts the season but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's the same outcome as last year.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If Norris was injured and in need of another procedure, the Sens would put him on LTIR and resolve the Pinto situation.

That would only be if he is going to get shut down for surgery or cannot play. I would not believe a Reddit rumour, but a player can be hurt or a team can be worried about the state of a previous injury without the player having to be shut down. See the original Norris injury that he played through.

Putting Norris on LTIR only resolves the Pinto situation if Norris is out for good. Otherwise, they have to still clear cap so that they can be cap compliant when Norris is ready to be activated.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

If Norris was injured and in need of another procedure, the Sens would put him on LTIR and resolve the Pinto situation.

The worst case, cap wise, for Ottawa is probably the likeliest.

Norris is not 100% and sits out the start of the season out of an abundance of caution, but he's not injured enough to go on LTIR and we still don't have room to sign Pinto without making other moves or carrying a thin roster.

 

[Micklebot]

Well this goes back to the concept of building a "team" vs. bringing in players and then trying to shoehorn into the roles that are available.

But the guy who's played the most LW in his career is Giroux. So I'd try him there first if you want to load up the top 6.

I think the best idea, though, would be to split up the RWers across 3 lines.

I think shoehorning guys into roles is too strong, you're exaggerating the importance of wingers playing their strong side, and ironically, Tarasenko has traditionally played his offside, so the move would put him into what is normally considered the strong side for the player

This isn't like a Dman playing their offside, wingers often play their off side.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The worst case, cap wise, for Ottawa is probably the likeliest.

Norris is not 100% and sits out the start of the season out of an abundance of caution, but he's not injured enough to go on LTIR and we still don't have room to sign Pinto without making other moves or carrying a thin roster.

He on IR now, so if he doesn’t play a game , he can go straight to LTIR.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I think shoehorning guys into roles is too strong, you're exaggerating the importance of wingers playing their strong side, and ironically, Tarasenko has traditionally played his offside, so the move would put him into what is normally considered the strong side for the player

This isn't like a Dman playing their offside, wingers often play their off side.

I'm not talking about strong side vs. weak side, based on how a player shoots. I'm talking about the side they're most comfortable on.

In 12 years as an NHLer, Tarasenko has never played LW. So for him specifically, he hasn't often played both sides. He's never played both sides.

Maybe it works, we'll see. But no other coach has ever moved him to the opposite wing (he's had four), and that's all we know at this point.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm not talking about strong side vs. weak side, based on how a player shoots. I'm talking about the side they're most comfortable on, based on how they play.

In 12 years as an NHLer, Tarasenko has never played LW. So for him specifically, it hasn't happened often. It's never happened.

Maybe it works, we'll see. But no other coach has ever moved him to the other wing, that's all we know at this point.

Not sure why you’re ignoring he played more on the right the last 2 games, than the left side. That’s also why you see Bath making most of his zone entries on the left.

That’s how Tank got his assist on Batherson goal, from the right side, threw it on his backhand to Bath on the left side.

He’s played more on the right last 2 games, and was lining up that way for most face offs.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Not sure why you’re ignoring he played more on the right the last 2 games, than the left side. That’s also why you see Bath making most of his zone entries on the left.

That’s how Tank got his assist on Batherson goal, from the right side, threw it on his backhand to Bath on the left side.

He’s played more on the right last 2 games, and was lining up that way for most face offs.

Yeah, it kind of makes my point. He's starting the game on the left, but ends up switching with his other winger as the game goes on. He's done that with Giroux and Batherson.

So really makes you think he's more comfortable and wants to play RW.

Let's just keep him there.

I do bet that he starts at RW in Carolina. At least I hope he does.

In the last 2 pre-season games I'd love to see him with Tkachuk and Stützle.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, it kind of makes my point. He's starting the game on the left, but ends up switching with his other winger as the game goes on. He's done that with Giroux and Batherson.

So really makes you think he's more comfortable and wants to play RW.

Let's just keep him there.

I do bet that he starts at RW in Carolina. At least I hope he does.

In the last 2 pre-season games I'd love to see him with Tkachuk and Stützle.

It makes me think it's training camp and they are experimenting with their options to see who fits where, I just don't get why there would be any concern at this stage.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No

Yeah, it kind of makes my point. He's starting the game on the left, but ends up switching with his other winger as the game goes on. He's done that with Giroux and Batherson.

So really makes you think he's more comfortable and wants to play RW.

Let's just keep him there.

I do bet that he starts at RW in Carolina. At least I hope he does.

In the last 2 pre-season games I'd love to see him with Tkachuk and Stützle.

it doesn’t make your point, you’ve been saying all along why won’t DJ play him on the right, (when he has) when other than game 1, he has mostly played the right.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

It makes me think it's training camp and they are experimenting with their options to see who fits where, I just don't get why there would be any concern at this stage.

I mean... sure? But the point of this board is to discuss the combinations we've seen to date, and talk about what we as fans like/don't like. Isn't it?

I don't like Tarasenko at LW. I understand that by game 1, he may not be at LW.

If your thinking is that we shouldn't have opinions because nothing is ever certain and everything can change tomorrow... then I can't argue with that. You're right.

No

it doesn’t make your point, you’ve been saying all along why won’t DJ play him on the right, (when he has) when other than game 1, he has mostly played the right.

Why has he always started on the left? From what I've seen based on practice tweets, he's primarily played on the left in drills, as well. It seems like they're really trying to make him work on the left. Maybe I'm wrong...

My opinion is that we should just give him all his reps at RW. Maybe starting today that's what happens.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Did I miss more news on Norris or is all this just fear and what if?