Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[Knave]

Interesting piece on Sportsnet suggesting Josh Norris is our most dangerous shooter:

Which player creates the most dangerous shots from each Canadian team?

Projected Goal Rate is a way of calculating how likely a shot attempt is to go into the net. Using NHL EDGE technology, Justin Bourne looks at who has the highest average PGR on each Canadian NHL team.

www.sportsnet.ca

A big reason why reuniting him with Batherson has helped him and team win.

Now the coach just needs to convince him to position well to get more shot opportunities from feeds by Batherson and Stutzle.

 

[bicboi64]

Hoping he can get hot and pace for 40g. Would be insane having two 40g on the team (if Tkachuk can hit that this season). Can't remember the last time that happened.

 

[SensFactor]

I hope he can get close to 40 goals. However, I more realistic projection is 26-30 goals.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I hope he can get close to 40 goals. However, I more realistic projection is 26-30 goals.

On pace for 35+ atm.

 

[WallyD]

I was dead wrong about Norris's comeback from injury. When he went for surgery #3 on that shoulder I thought his career was finished. He would come to camp, attempt to play, but the shoulder wouldn't hold up and he would end up like Oskar Klefbom and be on Robidas Island the rest of his career. Huge shoutout to that surgeon who saved that shoulder, because the odds were not in his favour. So happy for the guy, as he has been on a really rough journey the last two seasons dealing with all of this...

I hold as much hope and best wishes for Norris as anybody and commend him on his return. I know you are not saying he is free and clear. The reality is the shoulder risk looms perilously over him (Sword of Damocles) and that shall be the case for the rest of his career. Obviously it impacts his potential trade value too. Any team taking him on must consider this risk. One bad incident can reverse the entire situation to closer to what you originally envisioned. Here's hoping it holds up and he has a very long and successful playing career, here or elsewhere!

 

[bicboi64]

Norris fined for embellishment | NHL.com

Norris fined $2,000 for embellishment

www.nhl.com

The NHL can go eff themselves. Dude lost his footing, got back up and resumed play. No looking at the ref for a whistle or anything

 

[Tuna99]

Norris plays like a shortstop, the way he sets his feet and turns his body to pass and how he waits crouched on pucks in battle and his smooth and deliberate passing motion - now that I’ve seen it can’t unsee it, I feel like he would of been a gold glove shortstop or 2nd baseman.

 

[Answer]

Very prickly response! You doing OK?

Your point is he doesn’t have a lot of assists, no? Should I argue that? I can't, the number is the number.

I couldn't care less for your "if he deserved it they would be in" BS. I know what I have seen, and guys have missed some very good looks that he set them up for.

You can focus on the 1 thing he doesn't do well, and be as bitter as you like. I prefer to recognize the good things he does bring.


BTW, what is the cliche you are referencing?

It was pricky because you only responded for the sake of arguing nothing else. When you know its a fact that his assist count is low and that is due to him having tunnel vision. nothing more nothing less. We have seen this before his injury, too, where he only recorded 20 assist in a career year.

If you care less about my comment then don't care to respond to my comments. At least say what you mean.

The issue with people like you is that you lurk on these forums just to start an argument regardless the other person is stating facts or not, mixed in with a lot of assumption. How do you know I am bitter about Norris? Just because I focused on his 6 measly assists, doesn't mean I am bitter about it. It merely means I am pointing out a stat about a player that plays on this Team the the forum is dedicated to discuss about. Also, go check the history of my posts and you will find on many occasions that I have acknowledged Norris defensive game and other positive things he does bring. I focus on everything, the good and the bad. But people like you wouldn't know because all you care about is starting arguments and assuming stuff

The cliche I am referring to is 'oh he should've had 6 more assists'. This actually goes for every player in the league. Stutzle could literally have 10 more assts. Cousins could have 4 more. McDavid could literally have 50 more assists, last year. Should've and could've, the most useless English worlds ever

I hope you realize that your respond to my original thread was pointless, and you failed to make any valid point, or at least any that I wasn't aware of except for the fact you letting me know that you like to focus on the positive stuff and assuming that I only focus on negative and am bitter about it, and some how I am stupid to point out a clear fact that Norris only has 6 assists (a trend that we have seen before)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It was pricky because you only responded for the sake of arguing nothing else. When you know its a fact that his assist count is low and that is due to him having tunnel vision. nothing more nothing less. We have seen this before his injury, too, where he only recorded 20 assist in a career year.

If you care less about my comment then don't care to respond to my comments. At least say what you mean.

The issue with people like you is that you lurk on these forums just to start an argument regardless the other person is stating facts or not, mixed in with a lot of assumption. How do you know I am bitter about Norris? Just because I focused on his 6 measly assists, doesn't mean I am bitter about it. It merely means I am pointing out a stat about a player that plays on this Team the the forum is dedicated to discuss about. Also, go check the history of my posts and you will find on many occasions that I have acknowledged Norris defensive game and other positive things he does bring. I focus on everything, the good and the bad. But people like you wouldn't know because all you care about is starting arguments and assuming stuff

The cliche I am referring to is 'oh he should've had 6 more assists'. This actually goes for every player in the league. Stutzle could literally have 10 more assts. Cousins could have 4 more. McDavid could literally have 50 more assists, last year. Should've and could've, the most useless English worlds ever

I hope you realize that your respond to my original thread was pointless, and you failed to make any valid point, or at least any that I wasn't aware of except for the fact you letting me know that you like to focus on the positive stuff and assuming that I only focus on negative and am bitter about it, and some how I am stupid to point out a clear fact that Norris only has 6 assists (a trend that we have seen before)

Pretty small sample size though, and I would beg to differ. In 2020-21 & 2023-24 he was basically 50/50 goals to assists. He's only a 4:3 ratio of goals to assists this year, which also matches his career total. His 1 full season in the AHL was 50/50 goals to assists and his previous 2 at UofM had a higher assist than goal total of about a 4:5 ratio. Same pattern with the 2 seasons prior in U-17 & U-18 hockey. His teammates potting a couple more this year would put him pretty close to that 50/50 ratio he seems to be for his Junior/Collegiate/Pro total career.

 

[OD99]

It was pricky because you only responded for the sake of arguing nothing else. When you know its a fact that his assist count is low and that is due to him having tunnel vision. nothing more nothing less. We have seen this before his injury, too, where he only recorded 20 assist in a career year.

If you care less about my comment then don't care to respond to my comments. At least say what you mean.

The issue with people like you is that you lurk on these forums just to start an argument regardless the other person is stating facts or not, mixed in with a lot of assumption. How do you know I am bitter about Norris? Just because I focused on his 6 measly assists, doesn't mean I am bitter about it. It merely means I am pointing out a stat about a player that plays on this Team the the forum is dedicated to discuss about. Also, go check the history of my posts and you will find on many occasions that I have acknowledged Norris defensive game and other positive things he does bring. I focus on everything, the good and the bad. But people like you wouldn't know because all you care about is starting arguments and assuming stuff

The cliche I am referring to is 'oh he should've had 6 more assists'. This actually goes for every player in the league. Stutzle could literally have 10 more assts. Cousins could have 4 more. McDavid could literally have 50 more assists, last year. Should've and could've, the most useless English worlds ever

I hope you realize that your respond to my original thread was pointless, and you failed to make any valid point, or at least any that I wasn't aware of except for the fact you letting me know that you like to focus on the positive stuff and assuming that I only focus on negative and am bitter about it, and some how I am stupid to point out a clear fact that Norris only has 6 assists (a trend that we have seen before)

LOL. Bah Humbug to you too!

I dare you to find anyone on here who says I am a lurker trying to create arguments. I have been posting here for a long time, and had many discussions with a lot of good people, but that characterization is a first!

As for the point of your post...you wanted to post something but not have anyone respond...on a discussion forum? Check.

 

[vandelay]

It was pricky because you only responded for the sake of arguing nothing else. When you know its a fact that his assist count is low and that is due to him having tunnel vision. nothing more nothing less. We have seen this before his injury, too, where he only recorded 20 assist in a career year.

If you care less about my comment then don't care to respond to my comments. At least say what you mean.

The issue with people like you is that you lurk on these forums just to start an argument regardless the other person is stating facts or not, mixed in with a lot of assumption. How do you know I am bitter about Norris? Just because I focused on his 6 measly assists, doesn't mean I am bitter about it. It merely means I am pointing out a stat about a player that plays on this Team the the forum is dedicated to discuss about. Also, go check the history of my posts and you will find on many occasions that I have acknowledged Norris defensive game and other positive things he does bring. I focus on everything, the good and the bad. But people like you wouldn't know because all you care about is starting arguments and assuming stuff

The cliche I am referring to is 'oh he should've had 6 more assists'. This actually goes for every player in the league. Stutzle could literally have 10 more assts. Cousins could have 4 more. McDavid could literally have 50 more assists, last year. Should've and could've, the most useless English worlds ever

I hope you realize that your respond to my original thread was pointless, and you failed to make any valid point, or at least any that I wasn't aware of except for the fact you letting me know that you like to focus on the positive stuff and assuming that I only focus on negative and am bitter about it, and some how I am stupid to point out a clear fact that Norris only has 6 assists (a trend that we have seen before)

Not to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but that bolded sentence seems a bit of a leap, no? What's the definition of tunnel vision anyway

 

[Loach]

Not to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but that bolded sentence seems a bit of a leap, no? What's the definition of tunnel vision anyway

Tunnel vision? Go read Agentzuuub's posts about Brady backchecking. That, good sir, is tunnel vision.

 

[PlayOn]

I don’t think Norris has tunnel vision, but you definitely would like more assists 5v5. I think since he’s been with Batherson and Tkachuk he’s made a bunch of good plays/passes that just haven’t ended up in the back of the net. If he continues to do that the assists will come.

IMO he just doesn’t have the consistency yet and it’s not unexpected given he played like 50 games in two years. Some nights he’s great all over the ice, some nights he fumbles pucks constantly. He’s not a natural playmaker but he’s smart and will generate more offence once he’s stronger along the boards and can win his puck battles without losing his balance.

 

[Answer]

LOL. Bah Humbug to you too!

I dare you to find anyone on here who says I am a lurker trying to create arguments. I have been posting here for a long time, and had many discussions with a lot of good people, but that characterization is a first!

As for the point of your post...you wanted to post something but not have anyone respond...on a discussion forum? Check.

Definitely not what I have implied. But I can see why you will resort to this conclusion

You responded to not have a discussion by it was more along the lines of objecting me questioning Norris play-making ability and how I dare focus on the negative when I can just focus on his positive

 

[bicboi64]

Norris is winning faceoffs, taking on and initiating contact, scoring goals, and playing in all situations while scoring at a 35g pace. I'll take that for now considering there's still question marks about his long term future because of his injuries. He's still getting back into it and has development left, and as he keeps playing while being healthy, the assists will come.

He probably won't be a 40-50 assist guy, but in the 30s while scoring 30g is fine for now

 

[Answer]

Pretty small sample size though, and I would beg to differ. In 2020-21 & 2023-24 he was basically 50/50 goals to assists. He's only a 4:3 ratio of goals to assists this year, which also matches his career total. His 1 full season in the AHL was 50/50 goals to assists and his previous 2 at UofM had a higher assist than goal total of about a 4:5 ratio. Same pattern with the 2 seasons prior in U-17 & U-18 hockey. His teammates potting a couple more this year would put him pretty close to that 50/50 ratio he seems to be for his Junior/Collegiate/Pro total career.

20 assists in 70 games (in his career season)

6 assists in 30 games (this season when playing really good according to most)

Simple 2 question.
Is his assist count overwhelmingly low for a 1b center?
Is there a trend to be seen?

 

[bicboi64]

20 assists in 70 games (in his career season)

6 assists in 30 games (this season when playing really good according to most)

Simple 2 question.
Is his assist count overwhelmingly low for a 1b center?
Is there a trend to be seen?

I think its low, but not alarming or too much of a cause for concern. He's playing really good but within the context of bouncing back from an injury. I think he can still be better, but it seems like he's playing at a solid A because I didn't even think he'd be back to his 35g form.

In reality, he's been a solid B+ because he's doing everything, except assists. At $8 million aav, he does need to have a bit more balance in his stats, but in the event that he becomes a 40g 20a guy while being healthy and playing as good as he does two way, i'll take it

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

20 assists in 70 games (in his career season)

6 assists in 30 games (this season when playing really good according to most)

Simple 2 question.
Is his assist count overwhelmingly low for a 1b center?
Is there a trend to be seen?

1st point is correct, but it's in 66 games, not 82 (or 70), so some additional context. He may not be a PPG type player, but his goals to assists ratio has been 50/50 or skewed higher to assists than goals in basically all of his other seasons in NHL/AHL/College/Junior. AHL season he had a heck of a season of 31/30 in 56. 2 seasons at UofM he had 18/24 in 54. 2 seasons in Junior he had 14/19 in 49. His 2 other 50+ games played NHL seasons were both basically 50/50 with 33/32 in 106 total between the 2.

This year he has 8 assists in 30 games, not 6. Small difference, but another small inaccuracy if HockeyDB is correct.

I don't think of him as a 1b center. He's clearly #2 if Stutzle is our #1. I get what you mean by this because of his salary and playing with our 2 best wingers, but he's clearly #2 offensively imo. The 1b part if applicable is because he's their best defensive center imo, which isn't measured by offensive stats, and he does have a nose for scoring goals.

I think it's a trend that he'll be a defensively responsible 55-70 point (per 82gp) center with around a 50/50 split goals to assist ratio, not a ppg type guy, but I don't think there's an identifiable trend (yet at least) that he's going to put up significantly more goals than assists or that his assist numbers are a problem. I think the 1 season and a bit is too small a sample size compared to the rest. His career overall says otherwise. Now, will that mean he'll have a super high assist total above 35? Probably not. It could also trend more in the direction you're arguing, I'm just arguing that the 1 season and the beginning of this one is not convincing enough evidence when compared to the rest.

 

[Tuna99]

Could be a nominee for the Bill Masterton trophy. Probably goes to Laine but Norris making a case for comeback player of the year.

 

[Micklebot]

Could be a nominee for the Bill Masterton trophy. Probably goes to Laine but Norris making a case for comeback player of the year.

Gaudette will probably be our nominee.

 

[coladin]

Getting better and better...

 

[Sensinitis]

20 assists in 70 games (in his career season)

6 assists in 30 games (this season when playing really good according to most)

Simple 2 question.
Is his assist count overwhelmingly low for a 1b center?
Is there a trend to be seen?

20 assists in 66 games*** not sure where you got the 70 games from.

That prorates to 43 goals + 25 assists = 68 pts over 82 games. Is that not good enough for you? Lol.

This year he's pacing at a projected 33 goals + 22 assists = 55 pts over 82 games.

Not too bad for someone who is coming off a major surgery for the second year in a row. He's clearly getting better as the season is progressing. He's probably a 35 + 25 kind of guy if he stays healthy, which is great to have behind Timmy.

I see no issue in having a goal scorer as your #2C considering how good of a playmaker Stutzle is, especially considering how rare that is and the matchup problems it can create for the opposition.

 

[StoicSensFan]

50-60 points for a 2C is great, why does the goal/assist ratio matter at all?

 

[PlayOn]

50-60 points for a 2C is great, why does the goal/assist ratio matter at all?

I’ve said many times I’m a big fan of Norris’ game, so I’m just playing devil’s advocate here.

He has two assists 5v5 all season. Currently we have two great wingers in Tkachuk and Batherson, everyone else is either old or better suited on the third line. If Norris is better at driving play 5v5, does it give us more freedom to put Tkachuk with Stützle and then have Norris and Batherson drive their own line?

Norris and Batherson have stretches where they play well with a linemate like Giroux or Greig, but then it always goes cold fairly quickly. Stützle is now forced to drive a line by himself. So if Norris is only consistently effective with two talented wingers, then that does create issues in terms of getting all your lines going regularly.

I don’t see it as a major issue because 1) I expect Norris to improve here and 2) getting a good winger for Stützle shouldn’t be too challenging in the future, but I do think it’s a valid concern or at least worthy of discussion.

 

[Answer]

20 assists in 66 games*** not sure where you got the 70 games from.

That prorates to 43 goals + 25 assists = 68 pts over 82 games. Is that not good enough for you? Lol.

This year he's pacing at a projected 33 goals + 22 assists = 55 pts over 82 games.

Not too bad for someone who is coming off a major surgery for the second year in a row. He's clearly getting better as the season is progressing. He's probably a 35 + 25 kind of guy if he stays healthy, which is great to have behind Timmy.

I see no issue in having a goal scorer as your #2C considering how good of a playmaker Stutzle is, especially considering how rare that is and the matchup problems it can create for the opposition.

Okay, 25 assists in 82 games projection (in his career year), and 22 assist in 82 games projection, this year. That is 57 assists in 164 games. (Too much focus on a 4 games difference)

Now tell me is that good enough for a 8mill 1b Center? Why don't you address what I have asked rather telling me about his goal scoring (which I am not addressing), and not mentioning his shoulder injury, because this has nothing to do with his shoulder injury. His assist accounts were still overwhelmingly low before he ever had an injury.