Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[Ice-Tray]

Man, you could go on forever... we had so many of them... Milan Michalek, Jared Cowen, Pascal Leclaire, Bobby Ryan, Matt Murray, Peter Regin, etc... so many players that fans ended up disliking because they got diminished by injuries.

It's the nature of this sport, not really easy on the body

I'm holding hope that Norris is back to his former self and never looks back, but it is "hope", it's possible but far from guaranteed

I was hoping that Matt Murray became an healthy player so the contract that Dorion gave him didn't become an anchor... false hope



If Norris could ever go back to that 2021-22 level, that would be gigantic for the rebuild and I'd be quite more optimistic

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Batherson
?????? - Norris - ??????
Greig - Pinto - ??????

We'd still have 3 big holes in the top-9 though (I mean post Giroux and Perron)

How is it f***ing possible that we don't even have a full top-9 of the future after missing the playoffs 7 years?

I think Ostapchuk is going to be a middle six shut down player.

But I mean we also have Chabby, Sandy, and Yak on the back end, and Ulmark in net, to show for some of those higher picks.

We’re always going to have to rotate a few guys into the middle six every year, most teams do, and I don’t think Pinto will remain a third line player for long.

 

[Samsquanch]

Interesting tidbit coming from Travis Green during his CiH interview, he mentioned that talking to him and people around him that there's a sense that he's feeling a lot better than last year. That's probably a pretty low bar given the start Norris had and the early end to his season, but a good sign none the less.

At no point did it ever feel like Norris believed his shoulder was back to even close to being 100%.

Everything seem sketchy from the get go.

 

[HSF]

I will be shocked if Norris is back to his pre injury self anytime soon

He has missed significant developmental time and has not had full summers of training for a couple of years now

 

[Loach]

Man, you could go on forever... we had so many of them... Milan Michalek, Jared Cowen, Pascal Leclaire, Bobby Ryan, Matt Murray, Peter Regin, etc... so many players that fans ended up disliking because they got diminished by injuries.

It's the nature of this sport, not really easy on the body

I'm holding hope that Norris is back to his former self and never looks back, but it is "hope", it's possible but far from guaranteed

I was hoping that Matt Murray became an healthy player so the contract that Dorion gave him didn't become an anchor... false hope



If Norris could ever go back to that 2021-22 level, that would be gigantic for the rebuild and I'd be quite more optimistic

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Batherson
?????? - Norris - ??????
Greig - Pinto - ??????

We'd still have 3 big holes in the top-9 though (I mean post Giroux and Perron)

How is it f***ing possible that we don't even have a full top-9 of the future after missing the playoffs 7 years?

Post Giroux and Perron.. We had to sign those guys in the first place.

 

[Micklebot]

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Batherson
?????? - Norris - ??????
Greig - Pinto - ??????

We'd still have 3 big holes in the top-9 though (I mean post Giroux and Perron)

How is it f***ing possible that we don't even have a full top-9 of the future after missing the playoffs 7 years?

If Norris is back to form, it likely means one of him our Pinto could shift to the wing.

I'm pretty high on Ostapchuk, I see a Pageau like career for him (minus the clutch playoff performances).

I think post Perron/Giroux, Greig is likely a top 6 winger too. So that means you're looking at two third line wingers in your top 9 and the only guy we didn't draft is Norris. That's not bad at all, how many teams have 7 of their top 9 as drafted players? I don't think we're doing too bad, when Giroux and Perron are gone, there's 10 mil in cap space opened up to fill out the roster.

 

[DanyHeatley]

If this guy goes down within the first 10 games to the season, Staios should panic

In comes Nick Robertson

 

[Xspyrit]

If Norris is back to form, it likely means one of him our Pinto could shift to the wing.

I'm pretty high on Ostapchuk, I see a Pageau like career for him (minus the clutch playoff performances).

I think post Perron/Giroux, Greig is likely a top 6 winger too. So that means you're looking at two third line wingers in your top 9 and the only guy we didn't draft is Norris. That's not bad at all, how many teams have 7 of their top 9 as drafted players? I don't think we're doing too bad, when Giroux and Perron are gone, there's 10 mil in cap space opened up to fill out the roster.

"Problem" (which is a good one here) is I think all of them (including Stutzle) need to be centers to be effective. Greig is the only one who I think is as effective on the Wing.

I hope you're right about Ostapchuk but Pageau is soon to be 32 y/o and has a career 0.45 PPG in 718 NHL Games! Which is 37 pts per 82 games. Mathieu Joseph has a 0.38 PPG (31 pts per 82 games) which includes a lot of 4th line minutes in Tampa Bay, I am not even sure ZO has that offensive potential.

Let's say Norris adapts to wing, what do we have?

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Batherson
Greig - Norris- ??????
Ostapchuk - Pinto - ??????

Ostapchuk is also LW, like Greig if he's not a Center. I'd be more comfortable in building three 2-way lines with Stutzle, Norris and Pinto as Centers. We're just very POOR on the wing now. It was going to be a strength a few years ago but management happened.

Post Giroux and Perron.. We had to sign those guys in the first place.

I'm talking short term future, those guys don't have a lot of NHL hockey left, we'll need wingers to replace them

I think Ostapchuk is going to be a middle six shut down player.

But I mean we also have Chabby, Sandy, and Yak on the back end, and Ulmark in net, to show for some of those higher picks.

We’re always going to have to rotate a few guys into the middle six every year, most teams do, and I don’t think Pinto will remain a third line player for long.

Also hopeful that Ostapchuk will be an important Top-9 player for us but still a bit worried about his potential offensive contribution

We just dumped (with a 3rd attached) a Top PKer who had 33 points at EVEN STRENGTH last season (only 137 NHL forwards had more last season, an average of 4.28 per team) and was making a whooping 2.95 AAV. I need to see if Ostapchuk is able to reach at least 25 EVP

And sorry but D-men/goalies have nothing to do with what I was talking about (Top-9)

 

[Ice-Tray]

"Problem" (which is a good one here) is I think all of them (including Stutzle) need to be centers to be effective. Greig is the only one who I think is as effective on the Wing.

I hope you're right about Ostapchuk but Pageau is soon to be 32 y/o and has a career 0.45 PPG in 718 NHL Games! Which is 37 pts per 82 games. Mathieu Joseph has a 0.38 PPG (31 pts per 82 games) which includes a lot of 4th line minutes in Tampa Bay, I am not even sure ZO has that offensive potential.

Let's say Norris adapts to wing, what do we have?

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Batherson
Greig - Norris- ??????
Ostapchuk - Pinto - ??????

Ostapchuk is also LW, like Greig if he's not a Center. I'd be more comfortable in building three 2-way lines with Stutzle, Norris and Pinto as Centers. We're just very POOR on the wing now. It was going to be a strength a few years ago but management happened.



I'm talking short term future, those guys don't have a lot of NHL hockey left, we'll need wingers to replace them



Also hopeful that Ostapchuk will be an important Top-9 player for us but still a bit worried about his potential offensive contribution

We just dumped (with a 3rd attached) a Top PKer who had 33 points at EVEN STRENGTH last season (only 137 NHL forwards had more last season, an average of 4.28 per team) and was making a whooping 2.95 AAV. I need to see if Ostapchuk is able to reach at least 25 EVP

And sorry but D-men/goalies have nothing to do with what I was talking about (Top-9)

Well I mentioned the D and goalie because your post seemed to mention of our draft capital as it relates to the top 9. I just pointed out that we used some high picks on our D and goalie, it would have been really dumb to use all of our high picks on forwards to fill the top 9. I’m not sure any team has a top 9 filled out from home drafted players.

Anyways, I’m not really missing Joseph, especially the second half version, and I suspect that Ostapchuk will be the better all around player regardless, and much cheaper in the short term.

Grieg, Pinto, and Norris can all figure out who plays the wing, none NEED to play centre to be effective. Norris has the big one timer, and Pinto’s is pretty good too. I suspect either could play the wing. As many have said, Norris may play the wing to take pressure off his game when he first comes back, but camp will tell us much more about that.

 

[Tuna99]

The players clearly love Norris and the media also says he’s a super dude.

When he’s back in I hope he finds his roll and Brady and the boys aren’t looking to restablish 35goal Scorer Norris. I don’t care if Norris score15 goals and is our 3rd line center as long As he is helping us win. This team does have a maturity problem and focused on individual accomplishments way to much so this is a subtle thing Green will have to watch out for

 

[bicboi64]

If this guy goes down within the first 10 games to the season, Staios should panic

In comes Nick Robertson

Norris for Robertson, c'mon Staios, fleece Treliving

 

[Golden_Jet]

Norris for Robertson, c'mon Staios, fleece Treliving

Wouldn’t work for salary cap.

 

[DanyHeatley]

Norris for Robertson, c'mon Staios, fleece Treliving

Just LTIR Norris and get Robertson for a 2nd rd pick

 

[Larionov]

Interesting tidbit coming from Travis Green during his CiH interview, he mentioned that talking to him and people around him that there's a sense that he's feeling a lot better than last year. That's probably a pretty low bar given the start Norris had and the early end to his season, but a good sign none the less.

FWIW there was a lot of chatter that Norris had finally found "the" surgeon with this guru in Denver who supposedly did what others couldn't in terms of repairing the shoulder. Hey, for the sake of Norris personally and the club, I hope it is true. I have been pretty negative about his prospects for coming back but would be very happy to be wrong on that...

 

[bert]

100%.

We’ll curse the return, but getting that money off the books is crucial.

No one is taking him.

Just LTIR Norris and get Robertson for a 2nd rd pick

A 2nd round pick for a 5'9 one dimensional scoring winger?

Sprong just signed for league minimum. Robertson has no value.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

If Norris is back to form, it likely means one of him our Pinto could shift to the wing.

I'm pretty high on Ostapchuk, I see a Pageau like career for him (minus the clutch playoff performances).

I think post Perron/Giroux, Greig is likely a top 6 winger too. So that means you're looking at two third line wingers in your top 9 and the only guy we didn't draft is Norris. That's not bad at all, how many teams have 7 of their top 9 as drafted players? I don't think we're doing too bad, when Giroux and Perron are gone, there's 10 mil in cap space opened up to fill out the roster.

If (and it's a big IF) Norris can stay healthy and comes into the season ready to go from Day 1, what are the expectations for this player this season?

For me, it would be somewhere in between the 21-22 season where he had 55 points (including 35 goals) in 66 games and last season where he had 30 points in 50 games, this would put somewhere around 50 to 55 points, let's call it 54 points. 24 goals and 30 assists in 78 games.

It seems like a number of us here on HF and in a number of articles, he could likely be playing LW this season. All things considered; I think that it makes the most sense. Like to see him playing LW on a line with Pinto & Giroux and that gives us a top line of Tkachuk-Stutzle-Batherson. Leaves a third line of
Amadio-Greig-Perron, which I think is a solid third line.

I expect that Norris will be seeing a fair share of PP time and hopefully can get back to being a dangerous shooter on the PP for us.
Will certainly be interesting to see how things shake out this season. If we can get Norris back to being a solid 2-way top 6 player for us and he can stay healthy, that will be huge for this team this season.

 

[LiseL]

FWIW there was a lot of chatter that Norris had finally found "the" surgeon with this guru in Denver who supposedly did what others couldn't in terms of repairing the shoulder. Hey, for the sake of Norris personally and the club, I hope it is true. I have been pretty negative about his prospects for coming back but would be very happy to be wrong on that...

Tarasenko had 3 shoulder surgeries in a 28 month period (sound familiar?). it was the last surgery with Dr. Peter Millett in Vail, Colorado that finally fixed the problem. That is the doctor that performed Norris' 3rd surgery as well in early March so there is reason to be optimistic. It will have been 6 months when training camp starts so if that surgery was as successful as Tarasenko's surgery, he should be good to go. I expect him to be a little tentative at the beginning, and it's no longer a secret about his shot on the PP, so I'm not expecting another 35 goal season unless they change up the PP to not be so predictable. He's always been a 200-ft player so he should thrive under the new coaching regime.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If this guy goes down within the first 10 games to the season, Staios should panic

In comes Nick Robertson

We have the luxury of having both Pinto and Greig behind Stutzle and Norris. If Norris goes down, we may have depth issues, and there might be a hole on the PP in his spot, but I would be more concerned about one of the top 4 D going down. I think center is a position of strength for us.

The big roadblock to acquiring stop gap players is cap space. The moment he goes down for the entire season, if that were to happen, we get roughly 8M via LTIR. I assume we would acquire some sort of stop gap veterans on expiring contracts with that space. Teams would likely line up to have us give them cap relief. Similar to when we got Namestnikov for basically nothing because Melnyk gave Dorion the green light to go nuts and give us the pieces we needed to win a cup that year.

(The last part didn't quite pan out).

 

[Cosmix]

Tarasenko had 3 shoulder surgeries in a 28 month period (sound familiar?). it was the last surgery with Dr. Peter Millett in Vail, Colorado that finally fixed the problem. That is the doctor that performed Norris' 3rd surgery as well in early March so there is reason to be optimistic. It will have been 6 months when training camp starts so if that surgery was as successful as Tarasenko's surgery, he should be good to go. I expect him to be a little tentative at the beginning, and it's no longer a secret about his shot on the PP, so I'm not expecting another 35 goal season unless they change up the PP to not be so predictable. He's always been a 200-ft player so he should thrive under the new coaching regime.

I recall that Norris set up in one spot for a one-timer on the PP. He did not move around very much. Too predictable and easy to defend.

 

[TheNewEra]

If this guy goes down within the first 10 games to the season, Staios should panic

In comes Nick Robertson

if Norris goes down i dont expect panic

we will take an offensive hit and in no way am i saying otherwise. However Norris only produced 30 points for us last year. Yes there were injuries and it came in 50 games but in terms of production replacement we are talking 30 points. There are still forwards on the market that can get us in the 30 point ballpark. Plus if Norris gets injured we will have the cap space to overpay said players on a 1 year deal which would be the ultimate win for a player without a contract right now

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Good article

https://x.com/i/web/status/1821274220665639057

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Tarasenko had 3 shoulder surgeries in a 28 month period (sound familiar?). it was the last surgery with Dr. Peter Millett in Vail, Colorado that finally fixed the problem. That is the doctor that performed Norris' 3rd surgery as well in early March so there is reason to be optimistic. It will have been 6 months when training camp starts so if that surgery was as successful as Tarasenko's surgery, he should be good to go. I expect him to be a little tentative at the beginning, and it's no longer a secret about his shot on the PP, so I'm not expecting another 35 goal season unless they change up the PP to not be so predictable. He's always been a 200-ft player so he should thrive under the new coaching regime.

For a “normal” person 6 months after shoulder surgery is about when you can start playing sports again. Hopefully this surgery has faster recovery and the young dedicated pro athlete factor has him way ahead of the curve

 

[LiseL]

I recall that Norris set up in one spot for a one-timer on the PP. He did not move around very much. Too predictable and easy to defend.

Hopefully new coaching staff breathes some creativity on the PP instead of doing the same old, same old every time.

 

[Cosmix]

Hopefully new coaching staff breathes some creativity on the PP instead of doing the same old, same old every time.

The PP definitely needs to improve. More movement of players, more attacking the net, more set play options, more aggressive play.

 

[Samsquanch]

Hear me out first..

Norris-Stu-Giroux
Chucky-Pinto-Batherson

They both make so much sense imo. Norris could score 40+ imo.

 

[DanyHeatley]

Hear me out first..

Norris-Stu-Giroux
Chucky-Pinto-Batherson

They both make so much sense imo. Norris could score 40+ imo.

I think
Chuk - Stu - Bath
Grieg - Pinto - G
Perron - Norris - Amadio