Player Discussion: Josh Ho-Sang

[YesCubed]

The last couple of games have been rough. I love him still but he needs to control himself a bit more.

 

[ekill08x]

There were at least 3 occasions where he turned the puck over and the opposition almost scored. Like close call type chances.

Agreed...however were already down a forward, AND nothing compares to Lees turnover which directly resulted in a goal and a complete momentum swing. That turnover alone was worse than the culmination of JHS. We need every possession driving player we have. We do need him in the lineup but I can see him scratched for Beau on Sat.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

AND nothing compares to Lees turnover which directly resulted in a goal and a complete momentum swing. That turnover alone was worse than the culmination of JHS.

Well, Lee's turnover is an anomaly. A mistake. Ho Sang's issues is a pattern of behavior.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Been saying this over and over again. Turning the puck over is one thing, but he constantly turns the puck over on passes high in the offensive zone that lead to breaks the other way, see: game winning short handed goal by Doughty. He turns it over a LOT.

Ho Shang had 1 giveaway last night. It lead to a scoring chance.
Nelson had 3
JT had 2
Bailey had 2
Lee’s giveaway led to a big goal.

You don’t want this kid fretting over making a mistake. They all made mistakes last night.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Everybody said the same thing about Berard....once they took the reigns off and allowed him to make mistakes (granted it was on a team that had no chance of contending) he learned from them and kept getting better. I say let Ho-Sang go all out and continue to give him feedback. Don't bench him or cut his ice time for on-ice mistakes. Go over them and keep letting him do what he does. In the end if he is uncoachable or too thick headed to learn from what he does wrong you can trade him and probably get a decent return because of the flash.

 

[On Edge]

Everybody said the same thing about Berard....once they took the reigns off and allowed him to make mistakes (granted it was on a team that had no chance of contending) he learned from them and kept getting better. I say let Ho-Sang go all out and continue to give him feedback. Don't bench him or cut his ice time for on-ice mistakes. Go over them and keep letting him do what he does. In the end if he is uncoachable or too thick headed to learn from what he does wrong you can trade him and probably get a decent return because of the flash.

Same could and should be said first to Beauvillier. Sitting is just plain dumb. One game? Maybe - more than that is stupid considering the play of 86-25-12 and others. You have to take your lumps. JHS plays like he is in a Friday night beer league sometimes. He could time watching much more so than 72.

 

[boredmale]

Ho-sang needs to make better decisions with the puck, that's why he sat

I think it's as simple when you are up by 1 goal, Ho Sang is the last guy you want on the ice. ON the flip side if you are down a goal, you take your chances and put him on the ice.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Everybody said the same thing about Berard....once they took the reigns off and allowed him to make mistakes (granted it was on a team that had no chance of contending) he learned from them and kept getting better. I say let Ho-Sang go all out and continue to give him feedback. Don't bench him or cut his ice time for on-ice mistakes. Go over them and keep letting him do what he does. In the end if he is uncoachable or too thick headed to learn from what he does wrong you can trade him and probably get a decent return because of the flash.

On one hand, I do agree with you to an extent that some players you need to give a bit more rope to because of their style of play. But on the other hand, it's easy to say that as a fan and a lot more difficult for a coach think that way.

Coaches can't afford to let players do their own thing, if it ends up resulting in costly turnovers that could decide between wins and losses. They don't have the luxury of letting rookies "play through it" because their job is on the line if the losses start to add up. So they'll more often than not favor the more safer guys on the roster who may not score as much, but who will be less likely to give up goals.

I think coaches are willing to let guys like Ho-Sang get away with what they do, if it results in goals for. But the problem is, when the goals stop going in but the turnovers keep happening, that's when coaches tighten the reins.

 

[CupHolders]

Well, Lee's turnover is an anomaly. A mistake. Ho Sang's issues is a pattern of behavior.

Exactly this. I was going to reply in a similar fashion to that post until I saw yours.

The only other thing I would add... Is a turnover any more, or less egregious if it ends up in the net? If the Lee turnover was miraculously saved and there was no goal would anything other than... "tsk, tsk, can't do that" be said? Whereas, Ho-Sang had multiple turnover the last few games that killed offensive opportunities and led to opposition scoring chances (and goals - Ducks game) against. Just because Lee's one horrific turnover of the past few years ends up in the goal; does not excuse the three or four turnovers from another player that lucky did not find a way into the net.

I like Ho-Sang and think he has the potential to be a very special player, but he is young and still learning and he does need to find a balance to his game.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Exactly this. I was going to reply in a similar fashion to that post until I saw yours.
Whereas, Ho-Sang had multiple turnover the last few games that killed offensive opportunities and led to opposition scoring chances (and goals - Ducks game) against.

He might not have had statistical "giveaways", but there were at least 3 blind, shitty passes after skating himself into trouble that led to high quality chances off the rush going the other way.

 

[CupHolders]

He might not have had statistical "giveaways", but there were at least 3 blind, ****ty passes after skating himself into trouble that led to high quality chances off the rush going the other way.

Agree 100% again. I said something to the same effect on the game thread. When I was watching the game I couldn't find any specific or glaring action that led to a turnover by Ho-Sang. Yet, he consistently found a way to not get the puck in deep AND allow the Rangers to counter with speed and numbers.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He might not have had statistical "giveaways", but there were at least 3 blind, ****ty passes after skating himself into trouble that led to high quality chances off the rush going the other way.

Speaking of actual giveaway numbers, he's currently 5th on the Isles in giveaways with 6 in 6 games. The four players ahead of him (JT, Boychuk, Lee, Barzal) all average way more minutes than him, though.

So I can see why Weight's not playing Ho-Sang as much recently if he keeps turning the puck over that much.

 

[LeapOnOver]

On one hand, I do agree with you to an extent that some players you need to give a bit more rope to because of their style of play. But on the other hand, it's easy to say that as a fan and a lot more difficult for a coach think that way.

Coaches can't afford to let players do their own thing, if it ends up resulting in costly turnovers that could decide between wins and losses. They don't have the luxury of letting rookies "play through it" because their job is on the line if the losses start to add up. So they'll more often than not favor the more safer guys on the roster who may not score as much, but who will be less likely to give up goals.

I think coaches are willing to let guys like Ho-Sang get away with what they do, if it results in goals for. But the problem is, when the goals stop going in but the turnovers keep happening, that's when coaches tighten the reins.

Speaking of actual giveaway numbers, he's currently 5th on the Isles in giveaways with 6 in 6 games. The four players ahead of him (JT, Boychuk, Lee, Barzal) all average way more minutes than him, though.

So I can see why Weight's not playing Ho-Sang as much recently if he keeps turning the puck over that much.

Speaking of actual giveaway numbers, he's currently 5th on the Isles in giveaways with 6 in 6 games. The four players ahead of him (JT, Boychuk, Lee, Barzal) all average way more minutes than him, though.

So I can see why Weight's not playing Ho-Sang as much recently if he keeps turning the puck over that much.

I don't think 1 giveaway a game is actually that bad of a stat, regardless of playing time. I can see that side of the argument, but there are definitely different types of giveaways. All of Ho-Sangs, similar to JT and Lee appear to be giveaways in the offense zone. Not nearly as egregious as giveaways in the neutral or defensive zone. Secondly Ho-Sang's give aways aren't from selfishness, they are just poor decision making that goes along with being a rookie. If Ho-Sang shot more, but missed the net resulting in an odd man rush it wouldn't count as a give away but the result would be the same. I honestly hope he starts to shoot more, but his playmaking ability should start to pay dividends.

I keep comparing to other players who got free reign, and sure I cannot hold Weight responsible for inconsistency as he hasn't coached that long. Bailey was allowed to make tons of mistakes as a rookie as well when he was thrown into the lineup. Again, it was a bad team, but still. I just feel like Ho-Sang is being targeted for no reason, and even Beauvillier sitting was absurd. Ho-Sang knows when he does something wrong just like Lee does. I really don't like the message Weight is sending. That's just my opinion anyway. I don't think Ho-Sang is as much of a liability as it is being made out to be, but I could see how coaches don't like the run and gun style when he is on the ice.

 

[aronjudge11]

Its looking like Hosang is not the answer to the islanders problems. He looked skilled enough to "potentially" be a ziggy pallfy..and it looks like he doesnt have the ability to shoot often or well, and is a one trick poney..he was supposed to be the next ziggy palffy that would be so good tavares would have to stay an islander.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Its looking like Hosang is not the answer to the islanders problems. He looked skilled enough to "potentially" be a ziggy pallfy..and it looks like he doesnt have the ability to shoot often or well, and is a one trick poney..he was supposed to be the next ziggy palffy that would be so good tavares would have to stay an islander.

Yeah... I saw people saying that..

 

[Sheva7]

Does he need to improve some areas of his game....of course.

However...We're a far better team with him in the line-up. He shouldn't be sitting out for useless vets that just skate around and chase the puck all game.

 

[Bood12]

I do not think Ho-Sang should be riding the bench or watching the game in the press box, however I am pretty sure I am finally getting the knock on him by all of the "experts", he has the skills but I am not sure it is translating into a guy
who is going to put up really good numbers, that said I am still thinking he should be in the lineup over a few guys, and I am not sure why Weight has not used him in certain situations like during both our OT games

 

[islesmb]

I do not think Ho-Sang should be riding the bench or watching the game in the press box, however I am pretty sure I am finally getting the knock on him by all of the "experts", he has the skills but I am not sure it is translating into a guy
who is going to put up really good numbers, that said I am still thinking he should be in the lineup over a few guys, and I am not sure why Weight has not used him in certain situations like during both our OT games

I think his skill set is perfect for 3 on 3 OT but you can't turn the puck over and Dougie doesn't trust him to not make a mistake.

 

[CREW99AW]

Its looking like Hosang is not the answer to the islanders problems. He looked skilled enough to "potentially" be a ziggy pallfy..and it looks like he doesnt have the ability to shoot often or well, and is a one trick poney..he was supposed to be the next ziggy palffy that would be so good tavares would have to stay an islander.

21 year old JHS has played what, a total of 27 nhl games?
Glad to see nyi fans are not rushing to judgment, are showing patience with the rookie (sarcasm)

 

[FourRings]

Does he need to improve some areas of his game....of course.

However...We're a far better team with him in the line-up. He shouldn't be sitting out for useless vets that just skate around and chase the puck all game.

Who are you benching?

 

[MJF]

Who are you benching?

Chimera should be benched.

Ho-Sang will create far more offense than Chimera, who will just skate north to south ever will. Put 66 in Jordan Eberle's spot and watch Tavares light up the scoreboard. Eberle wants the puck all the time and won't distribute it. Ho-Sang will set up Tavares.

 

[ekill08x]

21 year old JHS has played what, a total of 27 nhl games?
Glad to see nyi fans are not rushing to judgment, are showing patience with the rookie (sarcasm)

Seriously. This kid is a stud he just needs some coaching. He will be just fine. We need some patience

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't think 1 giveaway a game is actually that bad of a stat, regardless of playing time. I can see that side of the argument, but there are definitely different types of giveaways. All of Ho-Sangs, similar to JT and Lee appear to be giveaways in the offense zone. Not nearly as egregious as giveaways in the neutral or defensive zone. Secondly Ho-Sang's give aways aren't from selfishness, they are just poor decision making that goes along with being a rookie. If Ho-Sang shot more, but missed the net resulting in an odd man rush it wouldn't count as a give away but the result would be the same. I honestly hope he starts to shoot more, but his playmaking ability should start to pay dividends.

A giveaway per game is really bad, though. Last season, among forwards only 5 players in the entire league averaged a giveaway per game or more. And all of those players played significantly more minutes than what Ho-Sang is currently playing.

Now, I'm not saying he can't improve or that every single one of his giveaways lead to scoring chances against. But in the context of why a coach might not have confidence in playing him as much, and why he might be the first the coach looks at to bench, it stands out quite easily.

I keep comparing to other players who got free reign, and sure I cannot hold Weight responsible for inconsistency as he hasn't coached that long. Bailey was allowed to make tons of mistakes as a rookie as well when he was thrown into the lineup. Again, it was a bad team, but still. I just feel like Ho-Sang is being targeted for no reason, and even Beauvillier sitting was absurd. Ho-Sang knows when he does something wrong just like Lee does. I really don't like the message Weight is sending. That's just my opinion anyway. I don't think Ho-Sang is as much of a liability as it is being made out to be, but I could see how coaches don't like the run and gun style when he is on the ice.

You also have to consider that veterans -- whether fair or not -- will always get more rope. A guy who has been in the league 4+ seasons will likely get a lot more chances to redeem himself for mistakes than a rookie with less than 30 games total in the league.

It's also a balancing act, where a coach may tolerate risky play if the reward is there (ie. the player is lighting it up). But if the player is making a lot of errors or playing a risky game AND there's not much actual production coming from that play, he'll be less likely to look the other way.

Tavares has a bad habit of being among the league leaders in giveaways each season. But he makes up for it with raw production. Ho-Sang's essentially doing what Tavares does (a lot of giveaways), but without the high end production to make up for it.

(Again, I'm saying all this stuff above in the context of why WEIGHT probably doesn't give Ho-Sang much rope. Not a commentary on Ho-Sang in general)

 

[SI90]

This team is not in a position to keep this high octane offensive player in the press box. Speed and skill kill. Look at everything Barzal is doing and all the chances he's creating.

It's not like JT is dominating. We need all the help offensively we can get.

 

[CREW99AW]

Seriously. This kid is a stud he just needs some coaching. He will be just fine. We need some patience

Reading this thread, I do not understand the Ziggy comparison. JHS is pass first. There have been games where he has taken a whopping 1 sog.
Ziggy was a scoring sniper.