Confirmed with Link: Josefson re-signed (2 years, $800k AAV)

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It should be noted that even Patrik Elias had to take a patient route to becoming a full time NHLer.

Josefson was brought up and thrown to the wolves in a lost season and succeeded.
He was injured, began to work his way back to that point and reinjured himself.

Since that point, he hasn't played well enough above anybody else in the lineup for an extended period of time. Which sounds ludicrous considering we iced guys like Janssen and Sestito - but he brought next to nothing to the table in the opportunities he was given.

It's frustrating to watch, because I very much want to be a fan of his. And when he was given a spot next to Jagr & Zajac, he wasn't a defensive anchor... but he stunted that line offensively while they were out on the ice. He missed on several opportunities by either refusing to shoot or skating right past the opportunity.

In 2012, between injuries, we had a viable top 6 and the ability to be patient to bring him up the roster. We haven't had a legitimate top 6 since Parise left and when 90% of the roster is offensively snakebitten and already overreaching for offense... what do you do with Josefson? I'd like to have seen him play more, but even so not that much more than he already did.

You look at a player like Gelinas, while he was defensively regressing towards the end of the season, was still making his case to be in the lineup through his offense. He was wedged in as a 4th line forward/PP specialist.. but there was an element of his game that forced the coach to want to keep him in the lineup.

Even look at how Merrill made his case despite there already being 8 other defensemen on the roster.

Josefson needs to make that statement this season. He will get that opportunity. It will be up to him how long his leash is, though.

Josefson played 25 minutes and 30 seconds with Jagr last season. He played 18 minutes and 32 seconds with Zajac. Jagr's numbers were a little worse with Josefson than without, but Zajac's went from 58.1 cf% without Yayo to 61.3% with. Josefson was a better influence (in a ridiculously small sample size that REALLY doesn't tell us anything...) on Jagr and Zajac than Zubrus.

Now small sample size is the reason I look at that and don't immediately something stupid like "clearly Josefson is a great candidate for the first line LW spot." And there's really not much reason to suspect that he could repeat those numbers over a much larger sample. But what I DO see is that when you look at his total WOWY chart between 2011 and 2014, you're looking at a 23-year-old forward who's a 51.8 CF% player. Adjusting for zone starts and looking specifically at corsi-close%, his numbers look even better (53.2%). He's played way more minutes with most of the defensemen on the team over that time period than any forwards, which speaks to a player being jerked around a lot when it comes to lines. Josefson was Cam Janssen's most common linemate last season. None of those pieces of info are very telling on their own, but each little tidbit helps paint an overall picture of a player that really hasn't been given much of an opportunity since 2011, despite some solid play when played with other good players. There's lots of reasons to be skeptical, but I still think he's yet to get a real fair shot with the Devils.
 

manilaNJ

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I pointed out that line he had for 2 games to point out why he wasn't given a better shot within the top 6.

I also pointed out that he wasn't a defensive anchor, but he put a dead halt on goal scoring to what was an already great possession line.

He does a good job of getting to the puck, but that's where it began and ended with him over the course of the past 2 seasons.

So his overall possession numbers don't look bad, but this is where watching what he does with those number is important, as well.

Not putting the puck in the net wasn't merely unluckiness with him. Given a scoring chance opportunity, he often lacked the awareness to do anything with it.

I don't know if that was a confidence issue, a hockey IQ issue or what -- but this is a great possession team with very little capitalization, and if you're going to flub the opportunities you do get to capitalize.... you're going to get your minutes reduced/taken away. I can't disagree with that.

And, again, if this were a team that could capitalize, with at least 2 lines that could score -- you have the chance to be patient and let Josefson learn on the job. Unfortunately, the coaching staff wasn't in that position.

I do say all this as someone who really wants him to dig his heels into that #3C role and prove us all wrong.
 

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And for anyone who believes he hasn't ran with any of his opportunities like Henrique has, go back and watch the entire 11-12 season and look for how long Henrique was kept with Parise and Kovalchuk before that line started producing. And watch how long they were kept together once they went cold later in the season. Henrique spent more than twice as much time with Parise than he did without.

All I want to see is Josefson given a chance to develop chemistry with someone. There's no "liability" excuse like there (rightfully) is/was with Tedenby. I'm hoping a two-year deal means he's gonna get that chance.
 

manilaNJ

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And for anyone who believes he hasn't ran with any of his opportunities like Henrique has, go back and watch the entire 11-12 season and look for how long Henrique was kept with Parise and Kovalchuk before that line started producing. And watch how long they were kept together once they went cold later in the season. Henrique spent more than twice as much time with Parise than he did without.

All I want to see is Josefson given a chance to develop chemistry with someone. There's no "liability" excuse like there (rightfully) is/was with Tedenby. I'm hoping a two-year deal means he's gonna get that chance.

The difference is that they were all still putting points on the board, despite Henrique playing above his head once he got put between Parise & Kovy.

They did go cold, but firstly, they proved that they could produce and secondly, we had another line putting up ~20 goals each that could be relied on if they weren't scoring. We didn't have that luxury in either of the past 2 seasons.

We have no natural third line center this year, unless Elias & Henrique split up, so there's no real reason for him, nor the coaching staff, not to at least settle into that role. This is his biggest opportunity yet.
 

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The difference is that they were all still putting points on the board, despite Henrique playing above his head once he got put between Parise & Kovy.

They did go cold, but firstly, they proved that they could produce and secondly, we had another line putting up ~20 goals each that could be relied on if they weren't scoring. We didn't have that luxury in either of the past 2 seasons.

We have no natural third line center this year, unless Elias & Henrique split up, so there's no real reason for him, nor the coaching staff, not to at least settle into that role. This is his biggest opportunity yet.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/player/gamelogs/2011/1639405

October 22nd was Henrique's first game on that top line. Josefson was injured the night before against San Jose. Henrique had 2 assists in his first 5 games on that line. Kovalchuk had 2 assists in his first 5 games on that line. Parise had 1 goal.

I'm not talking about an entire season here. If Josefson ever gets to play 5 consecutive games with star players on a line running that cold, I'll eat Stan Fischler's hat, and I'll even hold the steak sauce.
 

manilaNJ

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http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/player/gamelogs/2011/1639405

October 22nd was Henrique's first game on that top line. Josefson was injured the night before against San Jose. Henrique had 2 assists in his first 5 games on that line. Kovalchuk had 2 assists in his first 5 games on that line. Parise had 1 goal.

I'm not talking about an entire season here. If Josefson ever gets to play 5 consecutive games with star players on a line running that cold, I'll eat Stan Fischler's hat, and I'll even hold the steak sauce.

There was also nonexistent center depth behind Henrique. With Josefson and Zajac out, Elias flipped back to center to play with Sykora... the only other real option was the Parise-at-center experiment again. So that helped Henrique stick it out a while before it actually started putting up big points.

Josefson's case to stay in the lineup was lost in the fact that we had a cluster**** of mediocre/underperforming tweeners and not enough goal scoring. I don't think that's fair to him, so I'll agree he got the raw end of the deal, for sure.

What's unfortunate is that having literally anybody start scoring goals for this team will help Josefson out more than anything else he can do on his own.
 

manilaNJ

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And now, here I am, watching the 3-0 shutout against the Blues to take a deeper look into how Josefson handled his minutes with Jagr & Zajac.

Of all the games.
 

JimEIV

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http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/player/gamelogs/2011/1639405

October 22nd was Henrique's first game on that top line. Josefson was injured the night before against San Jose. Henrique had 2 assists in his first 5 games on that line. Kovalchuk had 2 assists in his first 5 games on that line. Parise had 1 goal.

I'm not talking about an entire season here. If Josefson ever gets to play 5 consecutive games with star players on a line running that cold, I'll eat Stan Fischler's hat, and I'll even hold the steak sauce.

Is that true? I'm not disagreeing, I just thought I remembered Henrique playing more than 2 games in the bottom 6?

October 22 was only his 3rd game. Looking just at the minutes though, he didn't start playing substantial minutes until Nov 5th when he broke 18 minutes for the time and pretty stayed above the 18 minute mark for the rest of the season.

Did he go up to the 1st line back down then back up again?
 

manilaNJ

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Is that true? I'm not disagreeing, I just thought I remembered Henrique playing more than 2 games in the bottom 6?

October 22 was only his 3rd game. Looking just at the minutes though, he didn't start playing substantial minutes until Nov 5th when he broke 18 minutes for the time and pretty stayed above the 18 minute mark for the rest of the season.

Did he go up to the 1st line back down then back up again?

I didn't think to double check, but just looking through some shift charts, he was still playing with Tedenby & Clarkson/Palmieri throughout most of October.

It was November 2nd against the Maple Leafs that Henrique debuted on the top line with Parise & Kovalchuk.
 

JimEIV

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I didn't think to double check, but just looking through some shift charts, he was still playing with Tedenby & Clarkson/Palmieri throughout most of October.

It was November 2nd against the Maple Leafs that Henrique debuted on the top line with Parise & Kovalchuk.

Yeah, that is more like it...I just browsed the minutes and I see he pretty much played 18(17:58) on Nov2 also...

And it looks like he produced immediately in those first games, he had 4 goals and 6 points in his first
4 games from November 2 to the 8th
 

Wingman77

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Wasn't Henrique sent down after the first couple games of the season before he was brought back up when Josefson got hurt?
 

Missionhockey

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and the team takes no blame for those skills not progressing?

You make it seem like there's a set formula that make a prospect successful.

These are human beings and ultimately you are accountable for taking the next step just like any other job. You can ruin someone by giving them too much responsibility, just like any real job too, but career advancement ultimately falls upon yourself.
 

Feed Me A Stray Cat

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Most of prospect development is garbage in my opinion. Obviously there are extreme cases when a player gets rushed into a bad situation on a bad team, however it's a cop out to simply say "Tedenby was poorly developed, Josefson was poorly developed."

Plenty of young players bounce between the AHL/NHL in their earlier years and don't have great linemates. It's up to them to make the best of it.

What people are also forgetting is that Henrique had a terrible training camp that season. It's not like DeBoer loved him at the time.
 

Missionhockey

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Most of prospect development is garbage in my opinion. Obviously there are extreme cases when a player gets rushed into a bad situation on a bad team, however it's a cop out to simply say "Tedenby was poorly developed, Josefson was poorly developed."

Plenty of young players bounce between the AHL/NHL in their earlier years and don't have great linemates. It's up to them to make the best of it.

What people are also forgetting is that Henrique had a terrible training camp that season. It's not like DeBoer loved him at the time.

Some players get rushed to the NHL and then do end up making a name for themselves. Look at Ryan Johansen.
 

devilsblood

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Let's be honest, Josefson WAS awful in the lockout season when he got a legit opportunity. He was a PK'er and getting decent icetime and he bombed.

Yes that is true no doubt, but he's been in the doghouse ever since.

Bernier was equally as stink this past year yet was not sat, instead he was given pp time and moved up to Elias's wing.
 

devilsblood

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Some players get rushed to the NHL and then do end up making a name for themselves. Look at Ryan Johansen.

Certainly players will respond differently. But I think it's safe to say that it's not good for a players development to be moved into the big leagues b4 they are ready.

But I don't think that has been the issue with JJ, unless we want to say some of the injuries are due to playing with men b4 he truly filled out into his frame.

The issue I have with Devils development of JJ is having him ride the pine for near 60 games at the age of 22, and then when they do play him stick him with the likes of Jansenn, all this while the team misses the playoffs. That imo has been the error from the Devils in their handling of JJ.
 

NJDevs26

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I pointed out that line he had for 2 games to point out why he wasn't given a better shot within the top 6.

I also pointed out that he wasn't a defensive anchor, but he put a dead halt on goal scoring to what was an already great possession line.

He does a good job of getting to the puck, but that's where it began and ended with him over the course of the past 2 seasons.

So his overall possession numbers don't look bad, but this is where watching what he does with those number is important, as well.

Not putting the puck in the net wasn't merely unluckiness with him. Given a scoring chance opportunity, he often lacked the awareness to do anything with it.

I don't know if that was a confidence issue, a hockey IQ issue or what -- but this is a great possession team with very little capitalization, and if you're going to flub the opportunities you do get to capitalize.... you're going to get your minutes reduced/taken away. I can't disagree with that.

And, again, if this were a team that could capitalize, with at least 2 lines that could score -- you have the chance to be patient and let Josefson learn on the job. Unfortunately, the coaching staff wasn't in that position.

I do say all this as someone who really wants him to dig his heels into that #3C role and prove us all wrong.

Thing about that is if you're going to cite Josefson's two whole games on the first line last year, Jagr wanted the kid to stay on the line badly after game #1 so he couldn't have been that bad, and the second game he played like eight minutes with them before getting moved down.
 

MountainGoat

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nice signing. I really hope Josefson and Larsson breakout this season because the Swedes have been very disappointing so far.
 

Deleted member 28548

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nice signing. I really hope Josefson and Larsson breakout this season because the Swedes have been very disappointing so far.

I'm with you on this. Each and every offseason, I'm quietly optimistic that players like Josefson, Tedenby, and Larsson all take big steps in advancing their overall games. Would be nice to see Josefson and Larsson both step things up in this regard as the team can seriously use secondary scoring and sound defense.
 

manilaNJ

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Thing about that is if you're going to cite Josefson's two whole games on the first line last year, Jagr wanted the kid to stay on the line badly after game #1 so he couldn't have been that bad, and the second game he played like eight minutes with them before getting moved down.

I didn't say Josefson was bad, in the sense that the line still wasn't giving up much and he wasn't getting in Jagr or Zajac's way -- but that was about it.

I think they had better opportunities at the Yankee Stadium game, but since I wasn't ready to go back and watch that muck.. I did watch the whole game against the Blues :laugh:

I don't want to go on about it too much more than I already have because I don't want to seem like I'm berating the kid. What I noticed in this game was that leaving him with the top line was putting him in a bigger position to fail than anything else.
He had a couple nice battles for the puck, got the puck through to Halak a couple of times... but he looked like he had absolutely no business being out there against St. Louis' top lines & pairings.

Jagr & Zajac work well of the cycle with one another, but Josefson was stuck getting man handled between two defenders -- leaving them without a 3rd forward to utilize. They weren't giving up chances the other way, but they had a hard time holding the zone together.

Anyway, this was a 3-0 shutout and not much of anything was happening at even strength - so the lines were bound to get juggled no matter who was on the top line -- but this game was a pretty good example of why we should look at Josefson as a bottom 6 center at this point.
 

manilaNJ

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I've rambled on for a couple of pages, but this is a pretty succinct version of what I'm trying to get across here :laugh:

Most of prospect development is garbage in my opinion. Obviously there are extreme cases when a player gets rushed into a bad situation on a bad team, however it's a cop out to simply say "Tedenby was poorly developed, Josefson was poorly developed."

Plenty of young players bounce between the AHL/NHL in their earlier years and don't have great linemates. It's up to them to make the best of it.

What people are also forgetting is that Henrique had a terrible training camp that season. It's not like DeBoer loved him at the time.
 

Wingman77

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I've rambled on for a couple of pages, but this is a pretty succinct version of what I'm trying to get across here :laugh:

Bashing coaching, scouting, management, etc for the way a player develops is just a lazy way for some to find an answer as to why it happened

The chances are there for the players, it is pretty much up to them to grab the situation in front of them and run with it as best they can. Some situations are better than others, but that's the game and that's life and if you can't handle it, well then it's time to start looking in other areas
 

MadDevil

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If he's good enough to play in this league, he'll find a way to make it. If that means he needs to change his game, he'll do it. John Madden scored a bunch of goals in college and the AHL, but he changed his game to be one of the best defensive centers in the game because he knew they was what he had to do to make it. And before I get the ridiculous "we want our forwards to be Jay Pandolfo" argument, I'm not saying that he should be. But you can't expect the coaching staff to coddle these guys forever and just give them roster spots. Ultimately it's up to Josefson whether he makes it or not. I hope he takes the third or fourth line center spot and runs with it. But if he doesn't I'm not going to blast the coach/organization for it.
 

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If he's good enough to play in this league, he'll find a way to make it. If that means he needs to change his game, he'll do it. John Madden scored a bunch of goals in college and the AHL, but he changed his game to be one of the best defensive centers in the game because he knew they was what he had to do to make it. And before I get the ridiculous "we want our forwards to be Jay Pandolfo" argument, I'm not saying that he should be. But you can't expect the coaching staff to coddle these guys forever and just give them roster spots. Ultimately it's up to Josefson whether he makes it or not. I hope he takes the third or fourth line center spot and runs with it. But if he doesn't I'm not going to blast the coach/organization for it.

If Josefson becomes a John Madden type of player I would be pretty happy with that.
 

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