Value of: Jonathan Kovacevic

[dgibb10]

There absolutely is, Rantanen doesn't go for what he went for with a contract in place.
In this scenario a team like SJ is going to be interested him once he hits free agency and they'd be willing to pay a small price for the right to talk to and likely sign him. Colorado isn't likely to interested in giving him an extension they're looking to win this season and think he'd help.

Different teams, different directions and different prices.

Colton for 2+ seasons has a lot more value than Cody Ceci for 20-30 games and if Colton value is a 2nd simply because that's what he got traded for why aren't you simply taking a 4th for Kovacevic? It's almost like values change

"There absolutely is, Rantanen doesn't go for what he went for with a contract in place."

"With extension" remains some bullshit fans use to convince themselves rentals aren't rentals. Everyone convinced they'll get the moon "with extension" everyone shocked once again when it doesn't happen. Rinse and repeat.

"In this scenario a team like SJ is going to be interested him once he hits free agency and they'd be willing to pay a small price for the right to talk to and likely sign him. Colorado isn't likely to interested in giving him an extension they're looking to win this season and think he'd help."

You've tried to explain SJ and Colorado's justifications for why they have made offers, cool. What is your justification for NJD requiring a higher price from 1 team than the other.

Why does NJD care who he goes to or what they want to do with him? If Colorado suddenly tells you they want to extend him do you charge more? Why? What difference does it make to you?


"and if Colton value is a 2nd simply because that's what he got traded for why aren't you simply taking a 4th for Kovacevic? It's almost like values change"

What has ross colton done to improve his value? His level of play hasn't improved, he now has a full NTC, and he's now 1.5 years older.

Kovacevic has improved his value by vastly improving his level of play.

 

[Theodore450]

Straight stolen from Montreal

 

[HugeInTheShire]

"There absolutely is, Rantanen doesn't go for what he went for with a contract in place."

"With extension" remains some bullshit fans use to convince themselves rentals aren't rentals. Everyone convinced they'll get the moon "with extension" everyone shocked once again when it doesn't happen. Rinse and repeat.

"In this scenario a team like SJ is going to be interested him once he hits free agency and they'd be willing to pay a small price for the right to talk to and likely sign him. Colorado isn't likely to interested in giving him an extension they're looking to win this season and think he'd help."

You've tried to explain SJ and Colorado's justifications for why they have made offers, cool. What is your justification for NJD requiring a higher price from 1 team than the other.

Why does NJD care who he goes to or what they want to do with him? If Colorado suddenly tells you they want to extend him do you charge more? Why? What difference does it make to you?


"and if Colton value is a 2nd simply because that's what he got traded for why aren't you simply taking a 4th for Kovacevic? It's almost like values change"

What has ross colton done to improve his value? His level of play hasn't improved, he now has a full NTC, and he's now 1.5 years older.

Kovacevic has improved his value by vastly improving his level of play.

All I'm saying is IF a team that clearly isn't in the playoff picture is calling you about a UFA player, they are probably also asking about what he'd want in terms of term and dollars. This is a pretty strong indication that they may want to sign this player in fact they've likely asked you if the player is willing to sign with them. If Colorado is calling about a UFA player and not asking about his contract expectations, you can assume their likelihood of signing this player is considerably lower.

The 2 "offers" were Kovacevic plus a 4th/AHL player for 2+ years of Colton or Kovacevic for a 2nd and Ceci, how huge of a gap are you seeing?? To me it's not massive if there even is one.

Would Colorado consider SJ's 2nd and Ceci for Colton? Yes.
Would SJ consider the exact same deal? Also yes.

To me this means that the values of both sides are fairly equal.

 

[dgibb10]

All I'm saying is IF a team that clearly isn't in the playoff picture is calling you about a UFA player, they are probably also asking about what he'd want in terms of term and dollars. This is a pretty strong indication that they may want to sign this player in fact they've likely asked you if the player is willing to sign with them. If Colorado is calling about a UFA player and not asking about his contract expectations, you can assume their likelihood of signing this player is considerably lower.

The 2 "offers" were Kovacevic plus a 4th/AHL player for 2+ years of Colton or Kovacevic for a 2nd and Ceci, how huge of a gap are you seeing?? To me it's not massive if there even is one.

Would Colorado consider SJ's 2nd and Ceci for Colton? Yes.
Would SJ consider the exact same deal? Also yes.

To me this means that the values of both sides are fairly equal.

I view the gap in value equivalent to a late 2nd.

Ceci at 1.6 mill, in this UFA RHD market is something you're getting a 3rd for imo.
You suggested adding a 4th.
And there is a gap between the sharks 2nd and colton imo.

This is valuing colton at what Colorado acquired him for. Based on his FULL NTC, him not improving, and being 2 years older now, I don't see any reason to suggest his value has increased.

Or another way of looking at it.

I'd be looking at Ceci+one of our 2nds for Colton.

So the value gap is the difference between a late 2nd and SJS 2nd

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I view the gap in value equivalent to a late 2nd.

Ceci at 1.6 mill, in this UFA RHD market is something you're getting a 3rd for imo.
You suggested adding a 4th.
And there is a gap between the sharks 2nd and colton imo.

This is valuing colton at what Colorado acquired him for. Based on his FULL NTC, him not improving, and being 2 years older now, I don't see any reason to suggest his value has increased.
View attachment 969217

Or another way of looking at it.

I'd be looking at Ceci+one of our 2nds for Colton.

So the value gap is the difference between a late 2nd and SJS 2nd

I'm glad you're a Devils fan because if you so rigid in your values that you think that an early 2nd vs a mid to late 2nd is some massive gap, you'd be impossible to deal with.

Also please note that I do not have the ability to make a trade for the Devils and am simply stating my own personal opinion that I would consider dealing Kova for the Sharks 2nd and Ceci or I'd add a lower pick to him for Colton. You can feel free to continue talking about how the 10-15 spot difference in the pick is some massive gulf but I'm over it.

 

[mrinsane]

I'll take him back in MTL if signed. what about Struble and a 4th round pick 2027

 

[pth2]

I'll take him back in MTL if signed. what about Struble and a 4th round pick 2027

What?!?
No!
Montreal isn't trading a player and a pick for a rental, and they wouldn't want to extend him, either.
--------
He seems to have found a fit and the only question is if NJ want to and can extent him, otherwise he'll be a very attractive UFA.

 

[dgibb10]

I'm glad you're a Devils fan because if you so rigid in your values that you think that an early 2nd vs a mid to late 2nd is some massive gap, you'd be impossible to deal with.

Also please note that I do not have the ability to make a trade for the Devils and am simply stating my own personal opinion that I would consider dealing Kova for the Sharks 2nd and Ceci or I'd add a lower pick to him for Colton. You can feel free to continue talking about how the 10-15 spot difference in the pick is some massive gulf but I'm over it.

Historically, 33rd-34th overall (where the sharks will be) has a trade value approximately double that of a late 2nd.

I don't think that's some difference to pretend doesn't matter. Maybe it doesn't matter in a blockbuster trade where the 2nd isn't one of the most important pieces.

But in this trade we're talking about a pretty significant difference. It's about a 50% difference in value imo.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

How about Kovacevic+ for Colton?

NJ get a local guy who can play 3C. Avs improve their 3rd pairing and create some capspace for another big move.

Kovacevic is playing so well for NJ, that I don't see him getting traded. The D pairings are playing so well that I doubt Tom Fitzgerald will want to mess with the chemistry.

Also NJ don't have the cap space to acquire Colton. They would need to include Tatar in the deal and also have at least $1m retained on Colton to fit him in. Which probably requires a 3rd team to broker the deal, as I doubt Colorado wants to retain, nor wants Tatar, given how small stint he lasted last time he was an Avs player.

 

[Fjordy]

Krebs for Kovacevic (if Devils want call Nemec)

If NJ need to return RD for a replacement we could add Jokiharju with retain for pick.

 

[Smitty426]

Kovacevic is playing so well for NJ, that I don't see him getting traded. The D pairings are playing so well that I doubt Tom Fitzgerald will want to mess with the chemistry.

Also NJ don't have the cap space to acquire Colton. They would need to include Tatar in the deal and also have at least $1m retained on Colton to fit him in. Which probably requires a 3rd team to broker the deal, as I doubt Colorado wants to retain, nor wants Tatar, given how small stint he lasted last time he was an Avs player.

They have the room for Colton closer to the deadline though (accrual). Your right though. a body probably would have to go the other way. I'd send Bastian to reunite with Woody. Fourth liner who is an ufa so they can decide in the summer if they want to reup him. BTW I wouldn't move Johny K, it be a pick as well as Bass

 

[LouJersey]

In reality, the Devils can do both, keep Kovacevic and trade for a third line center with their three second round picks.

I'd also like to keep Kovacevic (5 x $ 4.5 million or something like that) and trade Pesce if that was possible. Unfortunately it isn't.

Charlie Coyle available

 

[TBF1972]

Yeah, depending on the plus that is a type of deal I think NJ would be interested in, though not sure if they could fit his cap hit without moving some salary.

considering cap hit i wouldn't add from the devils side except for sending some cap back ( tarar, bastian).

 

[jgimp]

As a Jets fan I'm both sad and pissed that they let Kov go. It was a huge mistake and most Jets fans knew it at the time.

 

[samsagat]

If I was HuGo, I'd try to undo the mistake they made when they traded Kovacevic.

Personally, I don't see NJ blocking Nemec way to the NHL by signing Kovacevic.

Savard + ?

For

Kovacevic

?

Don't dream about the ? being something big, cause experienced RHD like Savard (Kovacevic has no NHL playoffs experience) are worthy comes the trade deadline.

But something along the lines of a 3-4rd pick, a youngish goalie like Primeau (still young for an NHL goaltender) and a potential bottom 6, ready for the NHL prospect in the like of Davidson, Tuch or something, would be the offer.

NJ would get an experienced RHD for their playoff run to replace Kovy, plus a little candy because he's younger and they're gonna lose him at the end of the year (the objective being making space for Nemec).

Habs would get an NHL player for Savard, a guy they know well and who's fitting with what they wanna build in terms of organizational culture. Someone I think would sign with MTL.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

If I was HuGo, I'd try to undo the mistake they made when they traded Kovacevic.

Personally, I don't see NJ blocking Nemec way to the NHL by signing Kovacevic.

Savard + ?

For

Kovacevic

?

Don't dream about the ? being something big, cause experienced RHD like Savard (Kovacevic has no NHL playoffs experience) are worthy comes the trade deadline.

But something along the lines of a 3-4rd pick, a youngish goalie like Primeau (still young for an NHL goaltender) and a potential bottom 6, ready for the NHL prospect in the like of Davidson, Tuch or something, would be the offer.

NJ would get an experienced RHD for their playoff run to replace Kovy, plus a little candy because he's younger and they're gonna lose him at the end of the year (the goal being making space for Nemec).

Habs would get an NHL player for Savard, a guy they know well and who's fitting with what they wanna build in terms of organizational culture. Someone I think would sign with MTL.

Kovacevic is cheaper and better than Savard, so I don't see any reason for the Devils to trade him for a 3–4th pick and a Primeau, Davidson or Tuch. So thanks but no thanks!

 

[aniketus]

Straight stolen from Montreal

He wasn't stolen from Montreal you stole him from WPG. I still don't know why he was wavied.

 

[Habs Halifax]

On the Kulak train?

As a Jets fan I'm both sad and pissed that they let Kov go. It was a huge mistake and most Jets fans knew it at the time.

Big boy that skates well and plays aggressive. I liked Kova on the Habs but several "expert" Habs fans said he is nothing special. "easily replaceable" narratives.

 

[Frank Drebin]

That's why I floated the idea of getting a replacement player plus for him, assuming they aren't planning on re-signing him.


Sure, I just don't see the Devils as a serious threat and if you're not a serious threat why not cash in on his good year. Getting another 2nd doesn't mean draft a player either, they can be traded again.

Kinda reminds me of bob gaineys masterclass in asset management back in 2008. Traded his 1A/B goalie in Huet to the conference rival caps for a 2nd so he could have 2 rookies lead the eastern conference champs into the playoffs in net. Surprisingly, inexperienced goaltending lost the series to Philadelphia.

Didnt make sense then, doesn't make sense 17 years later. This type of asset management is like selling your spare tire for $10.

He wasn't stolen from Montreal you stole him from WPG. I still don't know why he was wavied.

well we can stop talking about who stole him when he gets his giant contract this summer

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Kinda reminds me of bob gaineys masterclass in asset management back in 2008. Traded his 1A/B goalie in Huet to the conference rival caps for a 2nd so he could have 2 rookies lead the eastern conference champs into the playoffs in net. Surprisingly, inexperienced goaltending lost the series to Philadelphia.

Didnt make sense then, doesn't make sense 17 years later. This type of asset management is like selling your spare tire for $10.

Biggest difference is that I'm pretty sure the Eastern Conference Champs were believed to be a serious threat to win. The Devils IMO aren't. I can't see them being able to even get out of the east let alone win it all.

I'm also not suggesting selling him for just a draft pick like Montreal did with Huet, in my opinion they should sell in either a hockey trade that lands them an NHL player with term or a replacement D plus a pick