Proposal: Jonas Brodin for Ryan Spooner & Brandon Carlo

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I like brodin a lot... from boston pov id be very tempted.

I don't know carlo enough to make the decision without talking to the boston scouts but as the pretend gm, I definitely am listening to this type of talk

 

[pheasant]

We are going to lose one anyway. Three options here.

1) Trade one, lose the other in the draft
2) Trade both, lose a forward in the draft
3) Trade none, lose one in the draft, retain one for our future

Seems to me that option 3 is the best option

With that kind of game plan you could leave as many D unprotected as you want. "You can only pick one, Las Vegas. Whatchya gonna do about it?"

It's almost smart to overstock at one position, if you know you have one or two already that might be taken in the expansion draft. Instead of panicking to move a forward or D that you can't protect, just bring in another. Can't lose them all.

 

[oilerbear]

Jonas Brodin for Ryan Spooner & Brandon Carlo

Cup winning teams have:
1. HSCA D system coach
2. top 10 HSCA save% goalie
3. 3+ top 60 HSCA D
Suter; Brodin; Scandella
4. 3 lines of EVen production depth
5. Strong ST (PK/PP) goal differential.

Jonas brodin:
1st/2nd comp
top 20 HSCA D
top 35 Sa/60
top 10 EVGA/60
top 45 PKGA/60

Dmen top 45 in all 4: HSCA; SA; EVGA; PKGA
What you would define as the ultimate Def Dmen.
Alzner WSH 1st comp
Niskanen WSH 1st comp
Manson ANA 1st comp
Lindholm ANA 1st comp
Brodin MIN 1st/2nd comp
Prosser MIN 3rd/4th comp
Cole PIT 3rd comp
Lovejoy PIT -> NJ 1st comp
A. Greene NJ 1st comp
A. Larsson NJ->EDM 1st comp
Davidson EDM 2nd comp
Campbell FLD -> CHI 3rd comp
Stralman TMP 1st comp
Muzzin LAK 1st comp
Martinez LAK 3rd comp

When looking at the top 300 EVG scorers 27 of them are Dmen
273 are forwards who score 3040 of the 3242 Goals 93.8% of the even goals.

So Driving Even offence is kind of low on dmens rank of skills.
they just need to pass the puck to the forwards.

Offensive Dmen often achieve there high EVen production by abandoning the primary thiung a Dman needs to do.
Defend.
Especially the HSCA were 75% of goals come from 1/3 the shots.

So if you want a chance at a cup run you kind of want as many of the best HSCA D.

Though some on here seem to think the 202/3242G (6.2%) of the top 300 (10 best on each TM) makes a huge difference.

Top 150 PPG scorers:
30 teams #1 units.
16 Dmen (261PPG) are in the top 150 PPG scorers (2692 PPG) 261/2692 8.9%
#6 OEL 31 PPG
#6 Weber 31
#40 Faulk 20
#58 Giordano 17
#58 Byfuglien 17
#67 Burns 16
#67 Doughty 16
#76 Chara 15
#91 Subban
#111 Seabrook 13
#111 Letang 13
#130 Karlsson 12
#130 D. Hamilton 12
#143 Edler 11
#143 Josi 11
Dmen in bold have such brutal Def numbers their Even and PP offence cannot break even In goal differential.

1 dman is in the top 100 of shooting Efficiency.

 

[Riptide]

How many top 4 defensemen do you expect to actually be taken in the draft?

If I were Las Vegas, I'd take as many as I could. The team would be back heavy for year one to make up for their forward deficiency, and then make trades to balance it out over time.

Not too many teams have 4 legit top 4 defence, let alone 5. I don't think there are many teams that could soften the impact of the draft as well as Minnesota on defence.

Same. LV either starts their first season with 6 top 4D or they trade a couple for better forwards then what teams exposed to them in the draft. Teams are always looking for top 4D, and if LV has an extra one or two that they can move at a slight discount (depends on the market) to get better forwards, then they'd be smart to do that.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I still think LV is going to choose Zucker. If we don't protect him, I mean.

Great, than we still have five top 4 defenders, 3 ready/close to ready prospects and a league where 4-8 teams lost a defender they want to replace and are in a position of strength.

 

[Riptide]

Great, than we still have five top 4 defenders, 3 ready/close to ready prospects and a league where 4-8 teams lost a defender they want to replace and are in a position of strength.

Yeah there's no way that they take Zucker over someone like Scandella or Brodin. At least not unless he improves significantly over last season. Sure he's from LV and all, but unless he's a very good player, they're not going to be marketing the team around him anyway.

 

[AKL]

Great, than we still have five top 4 defenders, 3 ready/close to ready prospects and a league where 4-8 teams lost a defender they want to replace and are in a position of strength.

Exactly. If we DON'T trade our defenders, then we're anywhere from slightly worse off to a pretty decent amount better.

If we do trade one of our defenders before the draft, and do happen to lose another, then we're all of a sudden stuck hoping those fringe guys take big steps in a year. Which hasn't proven to be the case with our forwards.

LV taking Zucker because he's the only Vegas boy in the NHL could happen, but with the defensemen we'll have available for them, I'm not willing to bank on that.

Not to mention, if Zucker does have a season that would make Vegas want to take him, then we should want to keep him, because that would be what we need.

 

[57special]

Carlo is more valued by the B's than the Wild. Right now, the Wild have 5 Dmen fighting for third pairing playing time. Dumba, Prosser, Folin, Reilly, Olofsson.

The other thing that should make the Wild hesitate about moving Brodin is that he is equally good at playing RD or LD. In a league starved for RD, that makes him more valuable.


I find it weird how the league has decided who is draft eligible. It is highly likely that LV will have a better Dcore depth wise than over half the teams in the league, yet the forwards will be bottom of the barrel. I agree with Riptide that it is likely that they will snap up all the desirable top4 Dmen that they can, then use them as trade chips later. This will punish the teams that have built strong defenses.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Pass for the Wild from me. NHL Dmen that play top pairing minutes in the playoffs at age 19 don't grow on trees. And this trade doesn't help the Wild.

All that Brodin haters base their arguments on (1) low point totals, (2) last year's up-and-down season with chaotic team, multiple partners, and a significant injury, and (3) Suter "carrying" Brodin during his first three very success NHL seasons.

Sorry, that's not convincing.

 

[paulmm3]

Neutral fan here. I'd want a better return for Brodin if I was Minnesota. I think Minnesota pretty much has to trade at least 1 D prior to the expansion draft though, it should be interesting to see what happens

 

[ThatGuy22]

Yeah there's no way that they take Zucker over someone like Scandella or Brodin. At least not unless he improves significantly over last season. Sure he's from LV and all, but unless he's a very good player, they're not going to be marketing the team around him anyway.

I think there is a better chance they take Staal if he rebounds even slightly to the 45 point range. The center market via expansion draft is going to be putrid.

 

[Wabit]

I have a hard time with oilerbear's posts. Can someone dumb them down for me? I think he's saying Brodin is really good at defense, but can't carry a tune in a bucket offense wise.

 

[redwings25]

brodin for nyquist. fills a need for detriot and mn. detriot could add sproul/xo or a pick if needed

 

[Wabit]

Yeah there's no way that they take Zucker over someone like Scandella or Brodin. At least not unless he improves significantly over last season. Sure he's from LV and all, but unless he's a very good player, they're not going to be marketing the team around him anyway.

I thinking the Wild might dangle Granlund. He's due for a contract and they don't have a lot of cap space. Staal if he has a good year is another option. Or try to work out a side deal not to take one of the dmen.

But likely Vegas takes Brodin/Scandella.

 

[Riptide]

I have a hard time with oilerbear's posts. Can someone dumb them down for me? I think he's saying Brodin is really good at defense, but can't carry a tune in a bucket offense wise.

It's not just you - how he writes them and lays them out makes it really hard to understand.

I thinking the Wild might dangle Granlund. He's due for a contract and they don't have a lot of cap space. Staal if he has a good year is another option. Or try to work out a side deal not to take one of the dmen.

But likely Vegas takes Brodin/Scandella.

If Minny starts to leave a couple very appealing guys (like Granlund), then it starts to get interesting, and who LV would likely pick, would depend on who other teams left exposed. Because realistically, there's going to be a lot more #4-5D available then top 6 forwards or top 2 centers.

 

[Digitalbooya]

brodin for nyquist. fills a need for detriot and mn. detriot could add sproul/xo or a pick if needed

What need does Nyquist fit?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah there's no way that they take Zucker over someone like Scandella or Brodin. At least not unless he improves significantly over last season. Sure he's from LV and all, but unless he's a very good player, they're not going to be marketing the team around him anyway.

There's the rub. The level of production that Zucker is going to need in order for Vegas to pass up one of the defensemen is the level of production that would have us seriously considering protecting him. They absolutely aren't going to take him if he has another 10 goal season.

 

[Big Ed]

What need does Nyquist fit?

Well you bought out Vanek so you could probably use another overpaid winger, right?

 

[Vatican Roulette]

What need does Nyquist fit?

As a Detroit fan...none for Minnesota.

 

[biturbo19]

If Minny starts to leave a couple very appealing guys (like Granlund), then it starts to get interesting, and who LV would likely pick, would depend on who other teams left exposed. Because realistically, there's going to be a lot more #4-5D available then top 6 forwards or top 2 centers.

This is the really interesting factor.

Minnesota to me, looks like the team poised to be hit the hardest by expansion. They're going to lose someone that will really hurt, pretty much no matter what.

But if they were to leave someone like say...Granlund exposed, i think it would really make Vegas think hard about taking someone like that over one of their assorted Top-4D (Brodin/Scandella presumed the most likely exposure candidates). For that very reason...Top-6 Forwards are going to be even more scarce than Top-4D available in the draft.

But then, at the end of the day...even if Vegas just select Scandella/Brodin in the expansion draft anyway, i think they can probably still easily flip them for a forward better than Granlund. So going with the Wild defenceman is probably still the better play. I think it'd take someone like Niederreiter to really make Vegas think twice. Which, at that point Minnesota probably are better off just losing one of their defencemen given how forward-starved they are, relative to the defence.


Really, the only way out of this i can see for Minnesota, is to find someone willing to trade a high quality expansion exempt young player for one of the Wild's defencemen. Which, with the expansion draft looming...i can't imagine many teams are going to be looking to do. Even in doing so, they'll have Minnesota over a barrel in that if they don't like the price...they can always just wait for Vegas to select a defenceman from the Wild, and look to make a deal with the new kids on the block (who will be even more starved for forwards than Minnesota).


Spooner doesn't really help with that as he requires expansion protection...although Carlo could help soften the blow a little bit. It's not quite the deal that would make sense for Minnesota to completely fix their problem though.

 

[slappipappi]

I think Carlo is too strong as the plus, but Spooner+ is a solid basis for a Brodin (or Fowler, or Shattenkirk) deal.

Solid basis for Boston maybe.

Spooner is an interesting offensive player, but pretty fungible.

Brodin is by far the best player in this deal. The Wild would be better off simply flipping for a 1st round pick+.

Spooner needs to be the 2nd piece if Boston wants a Brodin/Fowler/Shatty.

 

[Mubiki]

The Wild likely aren't going to trade any of their young defenseman outside of overpayment.

There's about a 95% chance we lose one via expansion, so trading one likely results in losing two.