In Memoriam Johnny Gaudreau & Matthew Gaudreau killed by drunk driver while cycling (MOD WARNING. No Flaming, Trolling, or Politics.)

[KAPOW]

wow, feels completely unreal.

can't even remotely imagine what the families have to go through...

 

[Elvs]

I woke up this morning and had to check if yesterday was just a bad dream. Sadly it was not. Just awful news. Rest in peace Johnny and Matthew, and condolonces to the family. I can't even imagine what tragedy they are going through.

 

[LightningStorm]

Heard the rumors last night hoping they were false and woke up to the devastating news today. Just gutted at the terrible loss this was for two lives way too young. The fact that it happened the night before what was suppose to be their sister's wedding only adds lots of salt in the wounds.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is the BAC limit in North America really still 0.08%? I’ve been in Australia last 15 years so just been used to 0.05, assumed other places had come to their senses.

Hopefully some change and awareness can come out of this tragic event. Your planning changes drastically when you know you can only have 2 drinks before being illegal behind the wheel, either you skip it all together or organize DDs or Ubers.

I saw a 90% reduction in the after work/sporting event drinkers pushing the boundaries coming here from Calgary and they have check stops everywhere

Honestly the bar he was drinking at should have been watching him too. If you see someone drinking as much as he was and he gets up to go home, you should be calling the police. When I worked at a restaurant as a teen, we had to do our alcohol server training and I've called cops when someone that had been drinking heavily refuses our request they cab it home or get picked up, because that'd be blood on our hands if he ends up killing someone.

I don't know, I guess I'm just searching for ways this could have been avoided, you know?

Heard the rumors last night hoping they were false and woke up to the devastating news today. Just gutted at the terrible loss this was for two lives way too young. The fact that it happened the night before what was suppose to be their sister's wedding only adds lots of salt in the wounds.

I was so angry at the previous thread about it and hoped it was just some bullshit rumors by someone morbid and looking for clicks. It floored me to wake up and find out it was true.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

I believe the standard the don't drink and drive people advise is one standard drink will safely metabolize per hour after consumed. So those two drinks ya have say, ya gotta wait probably two hours to drive once the drinking is over before you're being responsible to drive. I doubt many people are abiding this.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's really really easy to just pin all the blame on the drunk driver, and to be crystal clear he 100% deserves the blame for this. We don't know all the details in terms of how close the two sober cars were to each other and how far in advance the front car moved in front of the drunk driver.

But the police report does seem to indicate that the front car was moving quite a bit slower than the drunk driver, and was aware the drunk driver was trying to pass in the oncoming lane. The smarter thing to do was continue slowing down, let the drunk driver pass, then move around the bikers.

But it's very easy to just say it was the drunk drivers fault because he was drunk and that's blatantly bad. It's harder to say another sober driver who was doing what they thought was the safe thing for the bikers did something wrong. People love easy.

The drunk driver still deserves the vast majority of the blame and definitely deserves prison time, to be clear.

I don’t think people are blaming the drunk driver “because he was drunk” or that is the “easy” thing to do rather thank looking at the sober driver(s) for any role they had in the butterfly cause and effect chain.

I think people are blaming the drunk driver because he was the one the plowed into two bike riders and ran over them and killed them.

 

[K1900L]

oh i couldn't help myself with this one

Please, superior-educated German man, explain to me how to defend myself on a bike when a drunk road rager runs over me from behind? Maybe if we thought kids how to out-peddle a crazed maniac operating a vehicle, they wouldn't get themselves killed right?

this is another victim blaming post with a strong dose of Nationalism added, y'all getting fancy now

Signed,

Canadian man

I didn't blame anyone, and my post was not a response to the accident, but various people who made posts about implementing a more bike-friendly culture.

But if you want to be as aggressive, so let it be:
A bike-friendly culture reduces the amount of total accidents, especially with bikes, due to car-drivers being more cautious and educated about the risks of drunk driving.

Here is a map depicting deaths due to road traffic accidents per 100k citizens. The numbers in the US are three to four times as high as the Central and Northern European numbers.

'Only 28 countries, representing 449 million people (seven percent of the world's population), have laws that address the five risk factors of speed, drunk driving, helmets, seat-belts and child restraints. Over a third of road traffic deaths in low- and middle-income countries are among pedestrians and cyclists.'

Again, my post was not at all directed at the Gaudreau-incident itself, about which we don't even have full information as of yet. And quite frankly, I find it odd how you could imply that there was any kind of nationalistic tendency in my post. All I did was show a correlation between bike-friendly cultures and reduced numbers of traffic accidents including cyclists.

So, just to answer your question: You might wouldn't need to 'defend' yourself from a drunk road rager because the probability of encountering one would be drastically reduced.
Would this have been the case in this incident? Who knows. But that was all I was pointing out.

I was not trying to victim-blame anyone. If someone got the impression, I'm sorry about that.

 

[AKL]

I think people are blaming the drunk driver because he was the one the plowed into two bike riders and ran over them and killed them.

Yes that's what I said in the post you quoted

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

I don’t think people are blaming the drunk driver “because he was drunk” or that is the “easy” thing to do rather thank looking at the sober driver(s) for any role they had in the butterfly cause and effect chain.

I think people are blaming the drunk driver because he was the one the plowed into two bike riders and ran over them and killed them.

Well ya got my vote. Thank you for making that so clear.

 

[Panthers Propaganda]

So this guy gets behind the wheel at minimum 6 deep probably feeling it. Likely drank more but as if he’s gonna admit to it.

Admits that he was actively drinking and consuming while driving—insane.

Drives like an ass, kills a beloved nhl superstar and his brother equally loved albeit not as a star but a former player and coach.

Then has the f***ing audacity to sigh and winge during his initial court appearance because he will be held over the long weekend.


Toss the book repeatedly at this ass clown. Unbelievable.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

In the United States, yes. North America is a continent and every country will have different laws.

Apologies, lazy on my part meant more US and Canada

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

This just pisses me off. Anyone who thinks I've just had a few drinks so I can drive is really rolling the dice with the lives of others and if you need a reminder of what damage can be caused take a look at these pics, remember them and call a cab/Uber....

View attachment 903996View attachment 903997

Those a beautiful photos. Thanks for posting them.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes that's what I said in the post you quoted

Well, no. You also gave some other reasons why people are blaming the drunk driver.

I totally get you aren’t defending him or saying he isn’t fully to blame.

But posting that people are blaming him here because it’s the easy thing to do is really really odd as it implies there’s some harder thinking to do regarding the other drivers and how much blame they deserve.

 

[leafs in five]

oh i couldn't help myself with this one

Please, superior-educated German man, explain to me how to defend myself on a bike when a drunk road rager runs over me from behind? Maybe if we thought kids how to out-peddle a crazed maniac operating a vehicle, they wouldn't get themselves killed right?

this is another victim blaming post with a strong dose of Nationalism added, y'all getting fancy now

Signed,

Canadian man

he wasn't saying you teach kids to out-peddle maniacs in cars, he said if you teach them to cycle and to think about cycling as a normal and inclusive mode of transport, then they will learn to drive with consideration for cyclists and their right to the road. I don't know in this case whether the driver even saw them though.

anyway it is my belief based on 2 decades of commuting by bike that motor vehicles turn people into crazed maniacs at least as much as crazed maniacs express their mania through the operation of their vehicle but that's probably as far as I should go in this thread.

what an unbelievable tragedy. I keep thinking of the last sentence in jarmo's tweet: this is devastating

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Honestly the bar he was drinking at should have been watching him too. If you see someone drinking as much as he was and he gets up to go home, you should be calling the police. When I worked at a restaurant as a teen, we had to do our alcohol server training and I've called cops when someone that had been drinking heavily refuses our request they cab it home or get picked up, because that'd be blood on our hands if he ends up killing someone.

I don't know, I guess I'm just searching for ways this could have been avoided, you know?

Yeah that’s a tough one as the culture needs to change, lots of bars have signs up about not serving intoxicated people but hand on heart I’ve drank at bars for close to 40 years and had never been denied booze til I went to Australia. We joke you could never have a Stampede or a Vegas party here cause they just don’t let you in or kick you out. I was back in Canada last year and they kept feeding booze to my 21 year old daughter til she puked. Nobody was driving but bartenders never know that and some places they’re too busy and barely mature enough to even serve it let alone recognize the signs. I hear you on how to prevent it, we’d both be rich folks if we could find that silver bullet.

 

[leafs in five]

One thing is sure, athletes who make a lot of money, nhlers specifically, who have biked on the road will be thinking twice. You can bike on the road lawfully, but you’re putting your life at the hands of the driver. Just takes one bad decision by someone.

they shouldn't drive either then

 

[La Bamba]

he wasn't saying you teach kids to out-peddle maniacs in cars, he said if you teach them to cycle and to think about cycling as a normal and inclusive mode of transport, then they will learn to drive with consideration for cyclists and their right to the road. I don't know in this case whether the driver even saw them though.

anyway it is my belief based on 2 decades of commuting by bike that motor vehicles turn people into crazed maniacs at least as much as crazed maniacs express their mania through the operation of their vehicle but that's probably as far as I should go in this thread.

what an unbelievable tragedy. I keep thinking of the last sentence in jarmo's tweet: this is devastating

the killer was drunk - even if the killer grew up in this supposedly highly civilized Germany, he would still be a danger on the road if he drove drunk. stop ignoring the fact that the guy drove drunk and implying he was uneducated (which he probably is anyways)

if you and homeboy want to ride on your pro-Germany high horse, you'd make a better point if you talked about how kids in Germany are taught not to drink and drive

 

[La Bamba]

So, just to answer your question: You might wouldn't need to 'defend' yourself from a drunk road rager because the probability of encountering one would be drastically reduced.
Would this have been the case in this incident? Who knows. But that was all I was pointing out.

this entire argument is trash because you're basically implying drunk drivers would not be dangerous because they grew up in a society where they are aware of bikers. You do realize that drunk drivers can also kill people in other cars, people walking in the streets, in addition to bikers right?

can you give me a lecture on how Germany teaches kids at a young age how to walk near cars without being hit so they can grow up to be able to dodge pedestrians when driving even if theyre drunk? put a nice heat map/diagram in it too to 'legitimize' your argument

 

[John Mandalorian]

It’s nice when tragedy brings out the best in people.

 

[leafs in five]

the killer was drunk - even if the killer grew up in this supposedly highly civilized Germany, he would still be a danger on the road if he drove drunk. stop ignoring the fact that the guy drove drunk and implying he was uneducated (which he probably is anyways)

if you and homeboy want to ride on your pro-Germany high horse, you'd make a better point if you talked about how kids in Germany are taught not to drink and drive

I'm not ignoring it or saying anything about the guy who killed them, I am saying it's intolerable to me that we organise our society around a mode of transport where a single person's mistake or malice or mania has such potential for harm. anyway

 

[SabrePL]

I'm still shocked. I can't belive it.

 

[99GoHabsGo99]

How this thread turned into people arguing who is at fault in just about 40 pages is insane and says alot about our culture.

Here's a post.

RIP Boys, I'm thinking of your family today and I'm so sorry this happened. So undeserved and devastating.

 

[Matty Sundin]

I explained the scenario at a point in a previous post somewhere in the last 10 pages or so. This image depicts exactly what I described.

View attachment 904183

So basically he was driving like how an asshole does on the free way except he wasn’t on a freeway?

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

How this thread turned into people arguing who is at fault in just about 40 pages is insane and says alot about our culture.

Here's a post.

RIP Boys, I'm thinking of your family today and I'm so sorry this happened. So undeserved and devastating.

100% should be to remember the lives lost - regardless. However right or wrong sometimes it takes high profile incidents to make change, I run my team through a semi annual mock court training exercise where I put people on the stand to defend themselves on decisions they make that change lives, we use real events to show them how quickly shit happens

 

[johan f]

The relatives will always mourn but hopefully learn to live with it