John Vanbiesbrouck is the new director of hockey ops for USA Hockey

[kabidjan18]

This is long. Not bad, just long.

Sorry. I probably need to work on that.

I guess I can give a perspective as a black male who's lived in several countries, including the U.S. and Canada. I've heard many people use the word, whether in jest\fun or in anger\frustration. I've reacted differently depending on the situation and context. I've gotten into four or five physical altercations as a direct result of the word being used within earshot.

I approve of this.

I haven't lived in an english-speaking country outside of the US, but I imagine we are the worst.

Vanbiesbrouck is a moron. For an adult to refer to a teenager by that word, knowing he is the only (or perhaps one of a handful) player of colour, is asinine. Doing so when he was angry does not provide an excuse. People can say it was a while ago, and it was a mistake, and all that's true.

For sure.

Still, find yourself another old white dude to run your hockey program. There has to be a person in charge of marketing\Reputational Risk who should know better. Mind you, knowing how the hockey world works, it does not surprise me in the slightest that he as a) hired b) The USA Hockey people were surprised by the reaction. The hockey world is as obtuse as it is archaic.

That's what I'm thinking too. Even if it just makes people uncomfortable, and it probably should, that should be a consideration. He's the assistant executive director, so is it possible that the head executive director appointed him?

As for Cardi-B, let's not even talk about how she's set the culture back, let alone use her as some kind of a moral compass when it comes to the use of derogatory language.

touche

 

[Claypool]

Public positions are public positions. Go get an accounting job, or open a car dealership. No one would complain.

That said, this isn't Vanbiesbrouck's fault. He just said yes. No one should be blaming him. USA Hockey should know better. Lots of noise for no good reason at all.

If Vanbiesbrouck comes in and starts banning minority hockey players from international play and removes initiatives that support youth hockey in low-income neighborhoods, then I'll agree with you.

What if he actually comes in and improves hockey for minority players? Still not good enough?

 

[Xokkeu]

It’s just a bad look all around. Was he really the absolute best man for the job? He wasn’t joking around singing rap lyrics. He was going full 1850s plantation racism on HIS OWN PLAYER. As USA hockey makes it a point to reach out to minority players to get more Seth Jones and Auston Matthews, In a sport that above all others seems to not welcome minorities, this is just the biggest tone deaf move I can imagine. I don’t get it at all. I see no positives

 

[Claypool]

It’s just a bad look all around. Was he really the absolute best man for the job? He wasn’t joking around singing rap lyrics. He was going full 1850s plantation racism on HIS OWN PLAYER. As USA hockey makes it a point to reach out to minority players to get more Seth Jones and Auston Matthews, In a sport that above all others seems to not welcome minorities, this is just the biggest tone deaf move I can imagine. I don’t get it at all. I see no positives

Remember when Dany Heatley was going 80 mph in a 35 mph zone and KILLED his own teammate, and was later selected to the Olympic team the following season?

Remember when Todd Bertuzzi ended Steve Moore's career in one of the THE WORST PR moments for the NHL, and was later selected to the Olympic team the following season?

Remember when Shane Done allegedly used a racial slur towards a French NHL referee, and was later selected to the Olympic team the same season?

If we're not going to vilify these players and demand they work at car dealerships, then there should be no problem with letting Vanbiesbrouck have a regular hockey job again 15 years later.

 

[kabidjan18]

He wasn’t joking around singing rap lyrics.

Again, I think those making a strong contextualist distinction should do well to make clear that they are not condoning usages that would include "joking around singing rap lyrics." Especially if the reason that one is championing such a distinction is because oneself might otherwise be implicated if the parameters included joking around and singing rap lyrics.

One might think that one application is appropriate or more acceptable, and another is more egregious, but as previously mentioned, such distinctions are difficult to make precise, and applications can be received differently by different people.

 

[Stand Witness]

I see some people saying "it was 15 years ago, he can/did learn from his mistake".

You know what, I might have agreed with this a couple of a years ago. I simply don't anymore. If he was a kid/teen 15 years ago and said it I would be willing to say he was a stupid kid. But he wasn't, he was a coach of a bunch of kids.

Also, why would you ever want to put someone with a rep like that in charge of an organization. Just so bad on so many levels.

 

[jj cale]

Quite a few people in here that seem to have never made a mistake in their lives as human beings.

Must be nice to have a perfect record in life.

He screwed up and he paid a pretty heavy price for it, you can't see it in your heart to maybe give a guy some forgiveness and a second chance after all this time?

I sure hope you can all keep your unblemished record because maybe you will never be allowed to live down the blunder you may make yet. Something tells me if/when it happens you won't think that is very fair from your fellow human judge, jury and executioners.

He did not murder anyone, start a a genocide, or initiate world war 3 here.

Although I am not surprised to see this attitude here, it's pretty dissapointing in my opinion. Not much humility or reflection on mistakes we all make on display here.

If U.S hockey hired him for this position then I am sure they know the attitudes/mistake engaged in has been dealt with and he highly regrets his past actions/attitudes and has corrected it or I am sure he would have never gotten this job.


Cmon guys, give the guy a chance at least, we would all like to be given a second chance if we made a mistake in life but are truly regretful and have learned and changed for the better because of it.

 

[Stand Witness]

Quite a few people in here that seem to have never made a mistake in their lives as human beings.

Must be nice to have a perfect record in life.

He screwed up and he paid a pretty heavy price for it, you can't see it in your heart to maybe give a guy some forgiveness and a second chance after all this time?

I sure hope you can all keep your unblemished record because maybe you will never be allowed to live down the blunder you may make yet. Something tells me if/when it happens you won't think that is very fair from your fellow human judge, jury and executioners.

He did not murder anyone, start a a genocide, or initiate world war 3 here.

Although I am not surprised to see this attitude here, it's pretty dissapointing in my opinion. Not much humility or reflection on mistakes we all make on display here.

If U.S hockey hired him for this position then I am sure they know the attitudes/mistake engaged in has been dealt with and he highly regrets his past actions/attitudes and has corrected it or I a sure he would have never gotten this job.


Cmon guys, give the guy a chance at least, we would all like to be given a second chance if we made a mistake in life but are truly regretful and have learned and changed for the better because of it.

I think people are more than willing to give him a second/third/fourth/fifth chance BUT the role can't be in a position of power, especially one overseeing the development of a countries players.

If he was added to the coaching staff of a team? Sure, no problem with that. He is a shitty person for what he said but he shouldn't ever be able to hold a job again either.

And yes, most people do have a pretty perfect track record when it comes to being ignorant to discrimination issues.

 

[jj cale]

I think people are more than willing to give him a second/third/fourth/fifth chance BUT the role can't be in a position of power, especially one overseeing the development of a countries players.

If he was added to the coaching staff of a team? Sure, no problem with that. He is a ****ty person for what he said but he shouldn't ever be able to hold a job again either.

And yes, most people do have a pretty perfect track record when it comes to being ignorant to discrimination issues.

You really believe most people have a perfect record when it comes to discrimination? really? take into account all areas where human beings can be discriminatory in nature.

Dear God, it's only been barely more then a decade(well less then that really) where it has started to not become the norm to call homosexuals any number of derogatory terms without batting any eye.

cmon now.

 

[Stand Witness]

You really believe most people have a perfect record when it comes to discrimination? really? take into account all areas where human beings can be discriminatory in nature.

Dear God, it's only been barely more then a decade(well less then that really) where it has started to not become the norm to call homosexuals any number of derogatory terms without batting any eye.

cmon now.

Yes, I genuinely do think most people have a pretty perfect track record when it comes to discrimination. I'm not talking about laughing at a joke or even necessarily telling a joke though, I mean like genuine discrimination.

Vanbiebrouck didn't do that. He literally called a person a Racial Slur multiple times.

 

[Claypool]

Yes, I genuinely do think most people have a pretty perfect track record when it comes to discrimination. I'm not talking about laughing at a joke or even necessarily telling a joke though, I mean like genuine discrimination.

Vanbiebrouck didn't do that. He literally called a person a ****** multiple times.

You don't think any of the former NHL players who are now working in management positions for teams around the world have never said anything discriminatory on the ice towards another player since it was never reported in the media?

LOL

 

[Stand Witness]

You don't think any of the former NHL players who are now working in management positions for teams around the world have never said anything discriminatory on the ice towards another player since it was never reported in the media?

LOL

No, I don't at all. NHL players aren't exactly a good representation of the general public either as they are generally white and grown up in a predominately white area.

In addition to that, they also would qualify under my point about coaches etc... NHL managers =/= USA hockey leaders.

 

[jj cale]

Yes, I genuinely do think most people have a pretty perfect track record when it comes to discrimination. I'm not talking about laughing at a joke or even necessarily telling a joke though, I mean like genuine discrimination.

Vanbiebrouck didn't do that. He literally called a person a ****** multiple times.

Well I don't, I've seen too much from far too many people to make the conclusion you have come to, sounds like you've grown up among the von trapp family from the sound of music, no offense intended here, just my two cents from my observations of humans from all over for close to 50 years now.

Most people have prejudices in some form or another even when they don't/won't/can't admit them, you see it even in such silly matters as international hockey games here left and right let alone in more serious areas of life.


But all that aside, do you believe a person can change and have regret for their past attitudes in life? if you do then why can't they ever be forgiven and the person given a second chance in a position such as this?


Who knows? who is to say he might not be really good working with minorities now and really help them in their careers because of what he has learned and now internalized because of that past mistake/experience?

I dunno, I just think to take this attitude of limited forgiveness(and in some cases no forgiveness at all) is over the top vindictive, especially when every single person has done things we dearly regret and would like to have back if we could do it over.

I don't agree with this attitude and I don't like it.

That's all I will say.

 

[Claypool]

No, I don't at all. NHL players aren't exactly a good representation of the general public either as they are generally white and grown up in a predominately white area.

In addition to that, they also would qualify under my point about coaches etc... NHL managers =/= USA hockey leaders.

Ok, so what about hockey leaders that have had thoughts of racism and discrimination but haven't acted on it? Should they do a brain scan to see if they are acceptable for the job?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I think people are more than willing to give him a second/third/fourth/fifth chance BUT the role can't be in a position of power, especially one overseeing the development of a countries players.

If he was added to the coaching staff of a team? Sure, no problem with that. He is a ****ty person for what he said but he shouldn't ever be able to hold a job again either.

And yes, most people do have a pretty perfect track record when it comes to being ignorant to discrimination issues.

Why not? Because you said so? Obviously USA Hockey disagrees.

 

[Stand Witness]

Ok, so what about hockey leaders that have had thoughts of racism and discrimination but haven't acted on it? Should they do a brain scan to see if they are acceptable for the job?

Come on now, you are just being ridiculous now.

You basically just answered your own question. They haven't acted on it. You can hate people and as long as you don't treat them differently then there really isn't anything wrong with that.

 

[Stand Witness]

Well I don't, I've seen too much from far too many people to make the conclusion you have come to, sounds like you've grown up among the von trapp family from the sound of music, no offense intended here, just my two cents from my observations of humans from all over for close to 50 years now.

Most people have prejudices in some form or another even when they don't/won't/can't admit them, you see it even in such silly matters as international hockey games here left and right let alone in more serious areas of life.


But all that aside, do you believe a person can change and have regret for their past attitudes in life? if you do then why can't they ever be forgiven and the person given a second chance in a position such as this?


Who knows? who is to say he might not be really good working with minorities now and really help them in their careers because of what he has learned and now internalized because of that past mistake/experience?

I dunno, I just think to take this attitude of limited forgiveness(and in some cases no forgiveness at all) is over the top vindictive, especially when every single person has done things we dearly regret and would like to have back if we could do it over.

I don't agree with this attitude and I don't like it.

That's all I will say.

Honestly, I think we are really closer to agreeing then it may appear.

Vanbiebrouck shouldn't be banished from getting more chances in life BUT he should be banished from a role in USA hockey. His role is directly involved in growing and developing the game of hockey. Someone like him should not be in this position.

As I said multiple times before, NHL GM or coach? Sure. Very different role than his role with USA Hockey.

 

[Stand Witness]

Why not? Because you said so? Obviously USA Hockey disagrees.

Sure if thats what the majority of people would think.

You can go around saying that you a great person but if everyone else thinks the opposite then you probably aren't a great person.

USA Hockey can think this wasn't a tone deaf hire but if the majority of people think it was well then it probably was.

 

[jj cale]

Honestly, I think we are really closer to agreeing then it may appear.

Vanbiebrouck shouldn't be banished from getting more chances in life BUT he should be banished from a role in USA hockey. His role is directly involved in growing and developing the game of hockey. Someone like him should not be in this position.

As I said multiple times before, NHL GM or coach? Sure. Very different role than his role with USA Hockey.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't agree with it.

We are all human beings and we all make mistakes, if he has changed, learned from it and sincerely regrets his past attitudes and mistakes and is committed to never engaging in it again then I don't believe he should be nailed to the cross for life, and that includes running hockey operations for U.S.A hockey.

maybe most people see it a different way but that's my view.

That's just too hateful/vindictive for my tastes.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Sure if thats what the majority of people would think.

You can go around saying that you a great person but if everyone else thinks the opposite then you probably aren't a great person.

USA Hockey can think this wasn't a tone deaf hire but if the majority of people think it was well then it probably was.

You're speaking for the majority now?

 

[AmericanDream]

Yes, I genuinely do think most people have a pretty perfect track record when it comes to discrimination. I'm not talking about laughing at a joke or even necessarily telling a joke though, I mean like genuine discrimination.

Vanbiebrouck didn't do that. He literally called a person a ****** multiple times.

give me a break already....enough...my God he said something millions of people have said and nearly every damn person from Chicago I know has said as well and vice versa depending on race...if you think the majority of people have a perfect track record when it comes to discrimination, well that guy who rides a bunch of reindeer at night shoving his fat ass down a chimney is real as well..you are in pure la la land.

AND YOU JUST SAID IT AS WELL - I WANT YOU BANNED FROM HF FOR 15 YEARS, AND WHEN YOU COME BACK I WILL NOT ACCEPT YOU AS A VALID MEMBER HERE!!!

If Beezer was racist he would have made sure Daley never played for his team...period. He just said stupid shit that he likely grew up with and paid the price which he should have. now can we get back to world hunger or child abductions please???

 

[93LEAFS]

give me a break already....enough...my God he said something millions of people have said and nearly every damn person from Chicago I know has said as well and vice versa depending on race...if you think the majority of people have a perfect track record when it comes to discrimination, well that guy who rides a bunch of reindeer at night shoving his fat ass down a chimney is real as well..you are in pure la la land.

AND YOU JUST SAID IT AS WELL - I WANT YOU BANNED FROM HF FOR 15 YEARS, AND WHEN YOU COME BACK I WILL NOT ACCEPT YOU AS A VALID MEMBER HERE!!!

How many people have been exposed calling a subordinate that in the workplace? Who cares what other people have said in social settings or haven't been caught. Flat out, the dude was caught making discriminatory statements about someone employed under him.

 

[AmericanDream]

How many people have been exposed calling a subordinate that in the workplace? Who cares what other people have said in social settings or haven't been caught. Flat out, the dude was caught making discriminatory statements about someone employed under him.

huh?

not following you here. I understand what he said and did...he paid the price for it which he should have, the guy I quoted thinks the majority of people have never said words like that or had discriminating feelings and views...I strongly beg to differ as every culture and race does...that is my point, what Beezer said was wrong, but lets not act like what he said hasn't been said before by so many others...

 

[93LEAFS]

huh?

not following you here. I understand what he said and did...he paid the price for it which he should have, the guy I quoted thinks the majority of people have never said words like that or had discriminating feelings and views...I strongly beg to differ as every culture and race does...that is my point, what Beezer said was wrong, but lets not act like what he said hasn't been said before by so many others...

Yes, but he got caught doing about a subordinate in the workplace. Doing that, should preclude you from working for a national body that chooses which players should represent your country. How many people have been caught openly talking in racial slurs about their subordinates? This isn't the same as a joke in bad taste or saying it among a group of friends. He said it in a professional setting, which is generally career suicide in your chosen field. Somehow, he's ended up further ahead than when he did it.

I know I wouldn't want this guy representing my country and choosing who did.

But, it seems Hockey Canada and USA Hockey have a running challenge on who can be the most out of touch and idiotic.

 

[AmericanDream]

Yes, but he got caught doing about a subordinate in the workplace. Doing that, should preclude you from working for a national body that chooses which players should represent your country. How many people have been caught openly talking in racial slurs about their subordinates? This isn't the same as a joke in bad taste or saying it among a group of friends. He said it in a professional setting, which is generally career suicide in your chosen field. Somehow, he's ended up further ahead than when he did it.

I know I wouldn't want this guy representing my country and choosing who did.

But, it seems Hockey Canada and USA Hockey have a running challenge on who can be the most out of touch and idiotic.

Well, I respect you, always have and will, but none of that is up for me to decide nor you. and again, I do not feel that "words" said 15 years ago, no matter how ugly or hurtful should stop someone from making a living, or contributing to the sport they love. I think people forget how things were back in the 60's and 70's growing up, especially in the US if you came from German or Italian families...just a different upbringing that viewed others well beneath themselves as it was done to them as well. it's not an excuse just reality that many of today's SJW's have zero understanding of.

Beezer didn't destroy anyone's career, he committed no crimes, he didn't Sandusky anyone...he said some bad shit, was called out for it and lost a lot that he worked for. He paid his price for what he said, simple as that. Heal and move forward which he deserves the chance to do.

I have no problems 15 years later with him in charge of my kids or if any of my kids buddies who are black went through his program. You have to let things go and move on...you have to believe people learn from their mistakes and actually want to make things better for the next generation. it absolutely kills me when I hear stuff like this like the man and others like him should be condemned as we the righteous ones should dictate this...and then I hear from the same people how convicts and criminals deserve second chances, and their upbringing is likely what caused them to actually harm a person...it is batshit crazy, can't have it both ways IMO.

My issue with Beezer is what he has accomplished over his executive career not what was said 15 years ago. I would hope he is a changed person and has done a lot of good over the years which is what he should be doing. I do not like anyone telling another human what right they have to make a living or what they should never be in charge of if no physical harm or crime, that is ridiculous and needs to stop. people who point the finger need to learn forgiveness, tact, and far less judgement as the ones who usually are the loudest with this stuff have the most skeletons to hide in their own closets.