Value of: John Tavares, is there a Market?

[WetcoastOrca]

And your salty that he’s still put up the same production that he always has and wouldn’t give him credit either way. It is what it is my man.


The leafs likely wouldn’t want to move Tavares. He’s still a ppg player lol. Whether that comes at even strength or on the powerplay who cares? There’s statistically more powerplays in the playoffs.


He has? A fringe minority isn’t leaf fans btw. He’s been a ppg player as a leaf and competes in the tough areas as he always has.

He’s still a good player for sure. 76 point centers who are good on the PP and strong on faceoffs have value. Realistically he’s probably worth about a $7 million cap hit going forward. Fortunately the Leafs don’t have a lot of bad contracts but still moving Tavares would free up a lot of cap to better allocate to other needs. They are just going to have to add assets to move the cap space to any team assuming Tavares would waive.

 

[Gecklund]

You do understand that the Leafs or any other team spending over the cap would then pay into the luxury tax that gets shared with those other teams?

Only in sports do we see people defending socialism for billionaire owners who make gobs of money.

You do understand that that still wouldn’t make up for the difference in revenue right? Teams like the Canes, Preds, Panthers, Stars wouldn’t be in the playoffs this season. Shit even Pens, Caps probably wouldn’t be where they were because the Leafs, Rangers, or Kings would have paid Crosby and Ovechkin 20M each in their primes.

 

[Guffman]

that ppg. Anchor! Lmfao!

It is an anchor when you’re throwing $11M for that. Comprehension is hard.

 

[iFan]

If the Canucks are going for a rebuild, I would entertain a Tavares for OEL move, clears term for the Canucks and cap space for the Leafs

 

[ijuka]

11mil? Requires retainment or Leafs have to give him up for free. Obviously they wouldn't. So there is no market.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I think Bert may be gone regardless. Our D pool is stacked and we need a center. Even if we draft centers this year he could mentor. We have tons of cap space and at the end of his contract when Raymond and Seider need deals.

You don’t trade value for Tavares. Hronek alone maybe but Berts value is a 1st +. Tavares would never get that type of value now without some pretty big retention.

 

[wetcoast]

You do understand that that still wouldn’t make up for the difference in revenue right? Teams like the Canes, Preds, Panthers, Stars wouldn’t be in the playoffs this season. Shit even Pens, Caps probably wouldn’t be where they were because the Leafs, Rangers, or Kings would have paid Crosby and Ovechkin 20M each in their primes.

It doesn't work out that way and by luxury tax I don't mean an unlimited one but even before the salary cap came in high revenue teams like the NYR didn't automatically win everything either.

Like I said a limited luxury tax, say 10%, over the cap is better than a hard salary cap even more so given the Covid and declining revenue situation.

 

[Guffman]

He as a player isn't an anchor but his contract (in context with the Leafs paying AM, Marner and Nylander as well) is what the "problem" is but Covid also has had a really negative affect on the Leafs and their ability to navigate the salary cap.

I also happen to be believe that a hard cap is extremely stupid and the NHL would be better served with a luxury tax to work with.

Anchor with all factors considered and obviously the salary cap charge is what weighs this player down from being traded without eating some cap.

I would oppose any pay-to-win salary cap schemes. Parity is much better for a league. Give the hard cap, TML get penalized for overspending on a handful of players.

 

[wetcoast]

Anchor with all factors considered and obviously the salary cap charge is what weighs this player down from being traded without eating some cap.

I would oppose any pay-to-win salary cap schemes. Parity is much better for a league. Give the hard cap, TML get penalized for overspending on a handful of players.

Fair enough we are going to agree to disagree here and with the salary cap there isn't "parity" there is a cap on the free market, teams still maximize their revenues and branding to make gobs of money.

 

[Guffman]

Fair enough we are going to agree to disagree here and with the salary cap there isn't "parity" there is a cap on the free market, teams still maximize their revenues and branding to make gobs of money.

Fans don’t really care if one franchise makes more than another. They do care if there is not a level playing field on what teams can put on the ice.

A flat cap hurts a lot of teams. One solution would be to increase the cap but also the escrow. That would make things more manageable for near capped teams but at the expense of players with existing contracts.

 

[Fatass]

Value as in for picks with no retention? Less than zero.
But in a hockey trade? I could see for equal dollars coming back.
Tavares for Doughty?

 

[wetcoast]

Value as in for picks with no retention? Less than zero.
But in a hockey trade? I could see for equal dollars coming back.
Tavares for Doughty?

Why would the Kings do this as Doughty is still an excellent NHL Dman and also Dmen age better.

 

[SI90]

2 places I can see him waiving for are Buffalo and back to NYI. I don’t think the isles would want him back but Buffalo could make sense.


Possibly Boston if Bergeron doesn’t return.

 

[wetcoast]

Fans don’t really care if one franchise makes more than another. They do care if there is not a level playing field on what teams can put on the ice.

A flat cap hurts a lot of teams. One solution would be to increase the cap but also the escrow. That would make things more manageable for near capped teams but at the expense of players with existing contracts.

Why should players on teams pay for their teams getting better?

This is the type of logic that most of us in the real world wonder about with billionaire owners getting a free ride and the players, ie the actual product on ice having to pa and at the end of the day the fans as teams really can't put their best product on ice as they have severe cap restraints.

 

[Fatass]

Why would the Kings do this as Doughty is still an excellent NHL Dman and also Dmen age better.

The Kings wouldn’t. Just looking at contracts JT would potentially return. Of course non of this will ever happen. Erik Karlsson is another option.
JT for EK.

 

[Lays]

Tavares++ for Panarin

 

[Guffman]

Why should players on teams pay for their teams getting better?

This is the type of logic that most of us in the real world wonder about with billionaire owners getting a free ride and the players, ie the actual product on ice having to pa and at the end of the day the fans as teams really can't put their best product on ice as they have severe cap restraints.

If you want to give only a small handful of teams a major advantage over other teams, I could see a lot of fan interest across the league wane.

Hey, I get it. You’re a fan of a high revenue team and think it makes sense to have your team afford to outspend most teams and think that’s good for the league. Lol.

Tavares++ for Panarin

Why even post that?

 

[wetcoast]

If you want to give only a small handful of teams a major advantage over other teams, I could see a lot of fan interest across the league wane.

Hey, I get it. You’re a fan of a high revenue team and think it makes sense to have your team afford to outspend most teams and think that’s good for the league. Lol.

I'm more a fan of hockey although I'm a long suffering Canucks fan.

Also before the salary cap most teams didn't buy their way to championships they drafted into them.

 

[Ducks DVM]

You do understand that the Leafs or any other team spending over the cap would then pay into the luxury tax that gets shared with those other teams?

Only in sports do we see people defending socialism for billionaire owners who make gobs of money.

That’s because sad “socialism” is in the best interests of the vast majority of the paying customers AND the majority of actual players. People won’t pay premium prices, or care, in the “have-not” cities, ultimately leading to fewer actual jobs for the players. Hockey is a niche sport.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I'm more a fan of hockey although I'm a long suffering Canucks fan.

Also before the salary cap most teams didn't buy their way to championships they drafted into them.

Because they owned the rights to a drafted player until they were 29, and offer sheets rarely occurred, giving players no options. That genie isn’t going back into the bottle.

And then ALSO could overpay for the best free agents, theirs and others.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Hell no we wouldn’t

Hell yes we would. I take that trade every f***ing day. We need a legit 1/2C to pair with Larkin. Tavares is that. Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Cossa, etc. all our young players are going to stay pretty cheap during Tavares cap bomb years.

I hope Toronto does some damn fool thing like this.

 

[wetcoast]

Because they owned the rights to a drafted player until they were 29, and offer sheets rarely occurred, giving players no options. That genie isn’t going back into the bottle.

And then ALSO could overpay for the best free agents, theirs and others.

So now they own the player for 6 years and we see so many offer sheets today?

But of course ticket prices and team garb has remained the same low cost eh?

Or if this mythical playing field actually exists contracts would account for cost (taxes mostly) of living in all NHL cities and they would use a baseline but the cap is to keep costs down and revenues up the parity is just a cover.

As for the OP, JT isn't going anywhere maybe AM will though in 2 years.

 

[Ducks DVM]

So now they own the player for 6 years and we see so many offer sheets today?

But of course ticket prices and team garb has remained the same low cost eh?

29 is through the entire prime, and offer sheets are why the bridge contract no longer exists. Teams now have to pay market rates for stars after 3 years so that they do not get offer sheeted, but you already knew that. Players did not get market rate, much less huge, contracts after their ELC expired.

I have no idea what inflation adjusted ticket prices are. I do know that the number of teams being forced to fold/relocate, and/or sell off their stars like Pittsburgh and many others because they had literally no chance to retain them has dropped dramatically.

 

[wetcoast]

29 is through the entire prime, and offer sheets are why the bridge contract no longer exists. Teams now have to pay market rates for stars after 3 years so that they do not get offer sheeted, but you already knew that. Players did not get market rate, much less huge, contracts after their ELC expired.

I have no idea what inflation adjusted ticket prices are. I do know that the number of teams being forced to fold/relocate, and/or sell off their stars like Pittsburgh and many others because they had literally no chance to retain them has dropped dramatically.

I said it during the first lockout (yes I'm old) that if the league was really interested in parity or the financial stability of weaker teams they would have had revenue sharing and/or a luxury tax but since parity wasn't ever the real reason that's why it's not there.

 

[MardyBum]

I mean, for every thought of Tavares you can get a PPG+ C for nearly half his cap hit for 2 years.