John Tavares Discussion

[Gary Nylund]

You write that with sarcasm... but I will unequivocally answer that with a resounding YES.

YES. That is PRECISELY what I expect from an 11 million dollar player. To find a way to generate their own offense without any semblance of excuse. Don't want such extreme responsibility? Then easy. Don't sign an 11 million dollar contract.

UFA's regularly get overpaid and it was always understood that at this point in time, he'd be regressing somewhat.

 

[glue]

There's pretty much no argument that JT has not been even close to good enough, in fact he's been downright poor when you consider the difference maker he is expected to be. He's gotta do a LOT more than winning faceoffs, especially given he pretty much gets the most favorable matchups of almost ALL the forwards on the team.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Yeah I don’t understand this premise of how dare Leafs fans demand X, Y, Z from Tavares just because he pulls in an 8 figure salary. Yeah, he’s from Toronto but he’s also a UFA mercenary brought to do a job. No different than if Patrick Marleau didn’t get the job done. For me there’s zero sentimentality with this player. It’s can you do a job or not.

You can demand it all you want, and exploring options in the off-season is one thing, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to sit him in the playoffs.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

you mean the guy who never won anything? The guy who said he wouldn't be a rental /go to a team halfway through a season and did that exact thing a year later?

I love sundin and I was a member of message boards in 03/04 when he was getting hated on one day and loved the next. Tavares is grinding, blocking shots, winning faceoffs, being a pain in the ass. As the games to on and get slower and tighter it will be the pace he thrives in. I wouldn't doubt he scores a big goal in this series, a late series overtime goal or a dying seconds tieing a goal. Mark my words, he wants that cup.

Yeah the guy whose teams never had players like Matthews and Marner on it. The guy that carried an over the hill Leafs team on his back year after year. The guy who wasn’t our 2nd line center and scored clutch goal after clutch goal in the playoffs.

Tavares couldn’t carry Sundin’s jockstrap. He’s not even 1/50th of the player he was. Don’t even waste forum bandwidth comparing the two.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

With which 2C though? That's the one part I struggle with with this argument, most contenders have an elite 2C

The one we already had, Kadri.

76 points in 79 games this year "Replacement player"

1 point in 2 playoff games, tiny sample size

Is he an 11M dollar player ? Absolutely not, but replacement level is laughable. He's an elite 2C, overpaid sure but bit of an exaggeration here.

We gave up an 87 pt in 71 GP center for said player as a cap casualty. Didn’t even need to be replaced. We should have just stuck with what we had.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Here's what people said at the time.

Would you Sign Tavares..

.. if it meant having to trade Nylander or Marner for picks or blu chip D prospect to make the cap work?

hfboards.mandatory.com

 

[Westlander]

This isn't how hockey works. This is fantasy land where players are available to swap in and out whenever you choose. There's 100 other scenarios where you can sum 11 mil across teams and say well damn instead of these scrubs it would be better if we had one Tavares

This is it. It’s not as though we would have had some obvious path to the cup if only we hadn’t signed JT.
But by God we do need more from him, and quick.

 

[Aashir]

UFA's regularly get overpaid and it was always understood that at this point in time, he'd be regressing somewhat.

Well tbf Tavares isn’t just any ufa….he was said to be the biggest ufa in time

What happened next year then….Panarin got signed and every year he lived up to his contract…..

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Wasted. Invisible. Discuss...

Whiners gunna whine.

It's the playoffs. We roll with the team we have.
Bitching is for the off season.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Holy crap, do we really need this many active Tavares threads?

 

[IPS]

David Kampf is being more useful than Tavares in every aspect of the game. Tavares so far is our weak link in the top-9. What the hell happened to his hands? Some of those opportunities he got in front of the net on the PP I swear the JT from previous years either tips that into the net or corrals the puck and backhands it. Dude is bobbling everything he touches now.

 

[sxvnert]

Dubas is the mistake. His unwillingness to change/break up that top four after the slow cap rises will be the death of this team.

 

[ToneDog]

The one we already had, Kadri.



We gave up an 87 pt in 71 GP center for said player as a cap casualty. Didn’t even need to be replaced. We should have just stuck with what we had.

Not true. Kadri was terrible as our #3C and was not a casualty of the cap. He bought his ticket out of town when he was suspended a second consecutive playoff.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

These forums can be pretty toxic. We need an option to downvote threads

 

[BertCorbeau]

The one we already had, Kadri.



We gave up an 87 pt in 71 GP center for said player as a cap casualty. Didn’t even need to be replaced. We should have just stuck with what we had.

For his career up until this season he was an approx 50-55 point centre. Let's not pretend that this production is normal.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

David Kampf is being more useful than Tavares in every aspect of the game. Tavares so far is our weak link in the top-9. What the hell happened to his hands? Some of those opportunities he got in front of the net on the PP I swear the JT from previous years either tips that into the net or corrals the puck and backhands it. Dude is bobbling everything he touches now.

It is sad but father time has slowed him down past 2 seasons .. he used to be a bit quicker and had a tiny bit more time to get better position to use his hands .. dude still has good hands and power as you can see on draws but speed impacts da game in so many ways .. for me I have truly seen it past 2 games live at rink .. da JT of 2.5 years ago is not JT I saw this week .. I hate to say it but he needs to move to 4th line now or at least slide over to LW .. Tampa is taking game to us and we can't get out of our own end when he is on ice .. like you said Kampf is a much better option at 2C right now

 

[Stephen]

You can demand it all you want, and exploring options in the off-season is one thing, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to sit him in the playoffs.

They won’t sit him, nor should they. But if the big picture is we will never get the juice out of Tavares and the organization will also never move on from him, then the championship potential of the Matthews era may have a ceiling on it.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

76 points in 79 games this year "Replacement player"

1 point in 2 playoff games, tiny sample size

Is he an 11M dollar player ? Absolutely not, but replacement level is laughable. He's an elite 2C, overpaid sure but bit of an exaggeration here.

Agreed with your sentiment, he is very far from a replacement level player. Thats asinine.

However his point production wasn't great this year considering how high league scoring was. He was like 53rd in the league in points per game as a top 5 paid player. He was 531st in the NHL in cap hit per point according to capfriendly, a pretty damaging stat.

 

[Stephen]

David Kampf is being more useful than Tavares in every aspect of the game. Tavares so far is our weak link in the top-9. What the hell happened to his hands? Some of those opportunities he got in front of the net on the PP I swear the JT from previous years either tips that into the net or corrals the puck and backhands it. Dude is bobbling everything he touches now.

Tavares can’t skate and handle the puck at the same time, it seems. He can glide and try to make a play while decelerating but if he’s in stride it’s like he’s playing with a rubber ball and it skips away. Just compare and contrast his ability to complete clean plays with a Spezza and you’ll see the difference.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The one we already had, Kadri.



We gave up an 87 pt in 71 GP center for said player as a cap casualty. Didn’t even need to be replaced. We should have just stuck with what we had.

To be fair at that specific point in time JT > Kadri so it was an immediate upgrade .. but foresight in hockey is very difficult and today Kadri > JT .. just mentioned that to be fair to JT

 

[blueberrie]

Holy crap, do we really need this many active Tavares threads?

People are too excited to jump into the despair of all the offseason threads, they don't even want to wait for the series to finish first.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I am as guilty as anyone of being in favor of signing JT as a UFA at the time.

I still think he can be a productive player for us for the remainder of his contract, but in retrospect, we probably would have been better off keeping Kadri and using the additional 6.5 million in cap space to bolster the roster.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Still obviously a very good player but it does seem like a classic case of negotiating against yourself.

"I don't want to be an Islander any more. And I DO want to be a Maple Leaf, kinda life-long dream."

"More money than McDavid sound ok?"

"YES IT DOES THANKS"

 

[cgc83]

 

[All Mod Cons]

With which 2C though? That's the one part I struggle with with this argument, most contenders have an elite 2C

J.T.Miller