Tribute John Tavares Discussion Thread

[nuck]

Fair enough. I'd proposed Robertson and Mikheyev with Tavares, and Kap would have saddled up beside WN and either Johnsson/Engvall. Regardless, I'll step back and watch Keefe, I think he's got a much better handle on how to maximize the Leaf's strengths than did Babcock. Heck, Keefe may know even better than me how to get the best out of this team

I think the seasons Marner and Matthews had are much more linked to the huge ice time Keefe gave them than maximizing their abilities. 1st and 5th in overall forward ice time in the league. Meanwhile JT and Willie regressed being 69th and 141st in TOI and 25th and 58th in points. Reilly had 72 points under Babcock. Kappy and Mango had their breakout seasons under Babcock.

Keefe took a much stronger lineup into the playoffs than Babcock ever had and did not have any better results. I'm not saying this as a bring back Babs comment, just that Keefe hasn't really shown much except play the shit out of his top guys and they will put up numbers in the regular season. I think he has a lot to prove.

 

[Maple Leaf]

JT needs to show he can skate
If not, ship him

 

[mapleleaf979]

JT needs to show he can skate
If not, ship him

Its not going to happen, Tavares has no fast twitch muscles in his legs, never has. Its a major issue as well, look at the playoffs, Tavares gets trapped and gets eatin up with back pressure. He is not a possession player unless down low and using his good cutbacks but again his first couple strides are below average. Tavares is not worth more than 8 million, his 11 million dollar contract, past his prime now, by far the worst contract on this team.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

JT needs to show he can skate
If not, ship him

He has 198 points in 201 games as a Leaf and only 2 teams can say they have a 2nd line center with a higher PPG than Tavares (Pittsburgh and Tampa, both are recent B2B cup winners). He did that with a busted hand in 19/20 and terrible puck luck in 20/21(low shooting % for his entire line).

He isn't going anywhere.

 

[Maple Leaf]

He has 198 points in 201 games as a Leaf and only 2 teams can say they have a 2nd line center with a higher PPG than Tavares (Pittsburgh and Tampa, both are recent B2B cup winners). He did that with a busted hand in 19/20 and terrible puck luck in 20/21(low shooting % for his entire line).

He isn't going anywhere.

He's the next joe thornton

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He's the next joe thornton

Thornton had 263 points in 292 games between the ages of 31 and 34 (the remaining years on Tavares' contract), including 76 points in 82 games at 34 (Tavares' age in the final year of his deal). Missed 2 games in 4 years. One of the top face off guys and one of the better defensive centers in the league. 35 points in 41 playoff games too.

Thornton was hovering around a PPG player until he was 36, and was still a productive player until he was 40. Completely fell off of a cliff in his last year in San Jose at 40, and it was only worse in Toronto.

If Tavares was another Thornton, then we are striking gold.

Even if Tavares turns into another Spezza, which is almost certainly a worst case scenario for Tavares, then we are doing fine until his final year of his deal.

 

[FreeBird]

Thornton had 263 points in 292 games between the ages of 31 and 34 (the remaining years on Tavares' contract), including 76 points in 82 games at 34 (Tavares' age in the final year of his deal). Missed 2 games in 4 years. One of the top face off guys and one of the better defensive centers in the league. 35 points in 41 playoff games too.

Thornton was hovering around a PPG player until he was 36, and was still a productive player until he was 40. Completely fell off of a cliff in his last year in San Jose at 40, and it was only worse in Toronto.

If Tavares was another Thornton, then we are striking gold.

Even if Tavares turns into another Spezza, which is almost certainly a worst case scenario for Tavares, then we are doing fine until his final year of his deal.

He was playing his best hockey in the last month since coming to the Leafs im convinced we would have beat out the habs his absence was huge

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

He was playing his best hockey in the last month since coming to the Leafs im convinced we would have beat out the habs his absence was huge

Yes, absolutely true. It's clear he was battling something earlier in the season but brought it all together at the end. So unfortunate how things went in game 1. I expect him to have a career year. He's probably more pissed than anyone over how things ended.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

JT needs to show he can skate
If not, ship him

Wth haha. He can’t be traded without his consent. That’s not likely to happen. Easier said than done. 198 pts in 3 years with us and 92 goals in 201 games and you can find fault with that. Way to harsh. The guys been awesome.
We are so sorry he doesn’t move fast enough for you

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I want Marner back with Tavares this year. Ritchie/Tavares/Marner
Bunting/Matthews/ Nylander

Ritchie/ Bunting are fairly interchangeable if you like but Matthews and Marner got far to predictable and that never happened when Tavares/ Marner played together. Matthews turned in to the Ovechkin always at the left circle type of player. To predictable anyways. Keefe has to change that.

The team was more dangerous off the rush with Marner/Tavares together. That all said, Tavares just causes more confusion and space than Matthews does standing in one place.

The guy needs to get skating more and doing more as the center. He’s very reliable defensively coming back. A huge center with his hands might be better off moving in the offensive zone like Tavares style of game

Tavares is the best darn center many nights that just gets ignored. The only time he’s struggled was because he was playing injured slightly.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Tavares game will age well, he’s always had average speed but amazing hands iq and shot

 

[Menzinger]

The guy literally scored like 5% off his career average and folks are acting like it's a dramatic decline in his performance, which seems odd.

The guys got the hockey IQ and hands to adjust his game when needed.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

The guy literally scored like 5% off his career average and folks are acting like it's a dramatic decline in his performance, which seems odd.

The guys got the hockey IQ and hands to adjust his game when needed.

It's not like he was creating fewer chances either. He just had terrible puck luck to to point where he switched the curve on his stick for the first time in his career.

He also had one of the better defensive years of his career.

 

[Zybalto]

Yea, he had awful puck luck the first half of the year but really turned it around and went on an absolute heater the month before the playoffs.

Putting aside PP numbers (the Leafs are hopefully fixing this with the coaching changes), top 5v5 points producers since April first (roughly the last 20 games of the season) in the NHL:

1. McDavid
2. Matthews
3. Tavares


I'm not sure what to make of it when some Leafs "fans" are so dismissive of the fact that when they lost this guy to that scary injury, it was one of the biggest injury blows in playoffs history and that maybe it contributed to the series loss.

Pretty sure that if it as any other team it would be an asterisk on the playoff run.

Even going back to March 1st, his 5v5 production is right there with guys like Mackinnon and Barkov.

I don't think he's quite done yet.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Tavares game will age well, he’s always had average speed but amazing hands iq and shot

Yes .. only real issue is when does he shift from centre to LW .. as i have stated earlier it is likely in 2022/3 season .. we need to develop another top flight centre in next year or two .. i am getting more concerned with SDA as days go by .. in 2022 there are a few good centres coming out of O and we need to get 1 solid Ontario boy

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Maple Leafs must assess John Tavares' future as team captain

There's lots to like about John Tavares as captain, but given the Leafs playoff history and a new GM, his role should be scrutinized.

torontosun.com

And just when the Shanaplan rebuild was set with an opportune moment to let one of its brightest lights grow into the role, Auston Matthews blew his chance in the summer of 2019 with the ‘Captain Underpants’ incident in Arizona.

John Tavares was named captain instead and there has been a lot to like about his 354 points in 360 regular-season games, a team-high 47 goals his first year and ranking near the top of NHL faceoff percentage just about every time that stat is perused.

The first GTA-born captain since Sid Smith in 1955, Tavares is dependable, accountable and cordial before the cameras. In Game 6 in Tampa Bay on April 29, his overtime goal brought Toronto its first playoff series win in 19 years.

Why, then, are there rumblings that a letter shuffle is in the cards before the 2023-24 campaign under new general manager Brad Treliving?

Firstly, anything Tavares does positively is still measured by many against his seven-year, $77-million US deal that has hamstrung the club’s salary structure. Fair or not, that imbalance gets blamed for management’s inability to add the elusive final piece or two for a longer playoff run.

In three of four first-round eliminations prior to this spring (Tavares was injured in 2021 vs. Montreal), the Leafs played five games with a chance to advance. He had a total of three goals and just one in three Game 7s.

Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander have also failed to seize the moment, either individually or collectively as 75% of the Core Four forwards. But Tavares, as the oldest, second-highest paid and least flashy of the quartet, is constantly magnified for poor pilotage.

No matter how you judge former GM Kyle Dubas’ roster construction or coach Sheldon Keefe’s nightly tactics, the stars must come out when it counts. And on a team that trots out its leadership group to meet the media in the best of times, Tavares will catch his share of flak in the worst.

The Leafs followed the win over Tampa with a tepid effort against the Florida Panthers where Tavares started looking like a player nearing age 33. Treliving is now in assessment phase and, if really being granted a free hand by club president Brendan Shanahan, everything about the underachieving Leafs should be on the table.

If not moving potential 2024 UFAs Matthews and Nylander by July 1, or Marner before his no-movement clause is triggered that same day, a fresh pair of eyes just might create some good optics with a disgruntled public by switching captains.

But who to replace Tavares? Morgan Rielly was considered and the longest-serving Leaf certainly carries himself like a captain, especially during the recent playoffs and always is there when a teammate is getting skewered. He also has a greater gift of gab than most when confronting and disarming the daily media horde.

Perhaps the captaincy becomes an unwritten part of a Matthews extension, or shared duty between Tavares, Rielly, Matthews and Marner or a veteran such as Mark Giordano and (if he re-signs) Ryan O’Reilly, both former captains elsewhere.

 

[Racer88]

He has 198 points in 201 games as a Leaf and only 2 teams can say they have a 2nd line center with a higher PPG than Tavares (Pittsburgh and Tampa, both are recent B2B cup winners). He did that with a busted hand in 19/20 and terrible puck luck in 20/21(low shooting % for his entire line).

He isn't going anywhere.

Only the Leafs can say they have an 11 million second line centre

 

[Niagara Bill]

JT is our captain and if he was paid $5.5m you would all love him. Versatile, hoes to the net and corners, plays center or wing, moves in anc fien line up.
But, the question is, does any player on this team have the gall, to insult JT, and become captain if Treliving takes it away. George AR strong was not the best player but was a great captain. Is AM, MM or MR selfish enough to take the C.

 

[ACC1224]

I’ve often wondered this. Do people actually believe that Tavares took less to come here?

 

[Buds17]

I’ve often wondered this. Do people actually believe that Tavares took less to come here?

Actual teams and numbers accompanied those rumours. One could at least argue the rumours as having more significance to them in comparison to a blanket statement with no substance to it.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I’ve often wondered this. Do people actually believe that Tavares took less to come here?

Yes.

 

[ToneDog]

I’ve often wondered this. Do people actually believe that Tavares took less to come here?

Of course he did. Lou offered an 8th year. That alone was worth $11m to JT. JT could have taken $10m to help the team, but there is zero doubt in my mind that he wanted Toronto more than every penny. Too bad we can say the same for the 3 playoff p***yes.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I’ve often wondered this. Do people actually believe that Tavares took less to come here?

I think some people really do. The problem is that even if the rumours were true, since everyone seemed to know he was coming here, there was no downside to them offering, or at least claiming to offer, more.

Lou could have offered $15M x 8 years (or whatever the max was) and all it would have done is make it look like he tried.

I suppose you could argue that, if those rumours were true, then he took less to come here, but he certainly didn't give us a discount.

 

[ACC1224]

Actual teams and numbers accompanied those rumours. One could at least argue the rumours as having more significance to them in comparison to a blanket statement with no substance to it.

Rumoured teams and numbers which is I guess what I'm asking. Perhaps there were direct quotes that I haven't seen and not just the 'I heard....', 'sources say...' type stuff.
It was no secret he was coming here, it just seemed to convenient that they also got him on a discount.

 

[Buds17]

Rumoured teams and numbers which is I guess what I'm asking. Perhaps there were direct quotes that I haven't seen and not just the 'I heard....', 'sources say...' type stuff.
It was no secret he was coming here, it just seemed to convenient that they also got him on a discount.

I can at least appreciate that logical teams and terms were mentioned. I think any player who rejects a max term deal to sign elsewhere is essentially taking a "discount" (in actuality, I just refer to that as taking less money and/or term to sign with his destination of choice). *I ultimately view a 'discount' as being a subjective matter.