Tribute John Tavares appreciation thread

[francis246]

Cap seems like a bit of a lame excuse. If the freeze never occurred they would still be at the cap limit with the lower end players making more money.

I think the thought was that they would have still have 2-3 seasons where they had both Kadri and Hyman as well as Matthews, Nylander and Marner. While adding guys like Bunting and Kampf. So I can see how the plan got off the rails. So many mitigating factors that really came out of the blue I don’t blame management for being a bit dumbfounded. Some of these things you can’t really “plan for”

They decided they had to move on from Kadri because of the suspensions.

A flat cap forced them to let Hyman walk earlier than they anticipated.

Rodion Amirov unfortunately gets cancer, Nick Robertson has played less than 100 games in the last 3 years. Matthew Knies declines to join the team. Let’s be honest, some bad planning but this team has had the shittiest luck I’ve ever seen in pro sports.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Thats where I will question about 90mil projection. Before COVID, How often did the media projected a number in those GM meetings before Xmas and by season's end, the numbers are not even close.
Even if it is 90mil now, the League minimum will not be 950/player but it could be 1.2mil/player, in addition to the increase in other players contract.
It will certainly help Dubas and others manage the cap than now but it won't be such a difference that Leafs could use that extra money to sign someone like Kadri in the off season.

What about this coming offseason when on July 1, 2023, the Leafs can sign Matthews to a contract extension.

 

[Gabriel426]

Before Rielly signed his contract extension other defenseman like Seth Jones got 8 years at $9.5 million, Darnell Nurse got 8 years at $9.25 million, and Charlie McAvoy got 8 years at $9.5 million.

Rielly re-signed for 8 years at $7.5 million, when he could have easily became a UFA and signed for more based on those other contracts which were already signed.

And if COVID didn't happened, Jones, Nurse and McAvoy might signed for 1.5-2mil more. It is only logical to also add that 1.5-2mil to Reilly's extension and it will still looks like a home team discount.

 

[francis246]

Thats where I will question about 90mil projection. Before COVID, How often did the media projected a number in those GM meetings before Xmas and by season's end, the numbers are not even close.
Even if it is 90mil now, the League minimum will not be 950/player but it could be 1.2mil/player, in addition to the increase in other players contract.
It will certainly help Dubas and others manage the cap than now but it won't be such a difference that Leafs could use that extra money to sign someone like Kadri in the off season.

Again that was before two major revenue streams became available to the league. Jersey/helmet adds and the ESPN deal. I get your skepticism, but those two were the reason why all teams were preparing for a major jump in the camp and so was the NHL. There is no doubt Covid has played a major role. It’s not the only factor but it’s a major factor. Other teams were able to convince their stars to take less and Dubas should be criticized for not getting that done absolutely as well. But we can’t keep ignoring the fact that Covid screwed their plans.

 

[Gabriel426]

What about this coming offseason when on July 1, 2023, the Leafs can sign Matthews to a contract extension.

Honestly, unless the Leafs win the Cup this playoffs, AM should not get a contract better higher than Mack. Mack's new contract will kick in next season where he just turn 28 in Sept. AM's new deal will kick in 2024 after he turns 27 in Sept. Age really should not be a huge factor since Mack will only be a year older when his new deal kicks in.
From past history, AM will most likely be getting 13-14mil and we all will just be happy he resigns instead of leaving via UFA.

 

[francis246]

What culture? It’s not a winning culture it’s very much a ol boys club or country club atmosphere where the players have control.

Lol, that is an HF Board ran narrative. The matter of the fact is, you are not inside that room. So you can’t assume that. I think Keefe has that room well under control.

The players enjoy being around each other and like hanging out with each other. They aren’t your conventional boring ass hockey player. I love that, they have personalities, they love fashion and building brands. They are modern athletes, we should be supporting that. It’s how you stay relevant and rich. This isn’t the early 2000’s / late 90’s where guys hated their teammates.

 

[Enniskillen]

If he goes on LTIR like Weber and Price, that would be the best scenario for the team. After “purely unintentional” knee by Perry it is absolutely necessary thing to do as brain injuries suck and are so unpredictable.

 

[Gabriel426]

Again that was before two major revenue streams became available to the league. Jersey/helmet adds and the ESPN deal. I get your skepticism, but those two were the reason why all teams were preparing for a major jump in the camp and so was the NHL. There is no doubt Covid has played a major role. It’s not the only factor but it’s a major factor. Other teams were able to convince their stars to take less and Dubas should be criticized for not getting that done absolutely as well. But we can’t keep ignoring the fact that Covid screwed their plans.

I am not saying it didn't, what I am saying is that we can't just assume other players Leafs signed or extended will also sign their deals if COVID didn't happened. Like would Leafs managed to sign TJ for 5mil that year? Would Reilly signs his extension at 7.5mil instead of 9.5mil if Nurse, Jones and McAvoy signs for 11mil. Those are factors who also need to be considered.
If COVID didn't happens, it is safe to assume other players will bump MM and even JT down as being top 7 contracts in the league but it still doesn't change the fact that Leafs will have not ONE, not TWO but THREE players making 12% of the cap(based on 90mil) each.

 

[francis246]

I am not saying it didn't, what I am saying is that we can't just assume other players Leafs signed or extended will also sign their deals if COVID didn't happened. Like would Leafs managed to sign TJ for 5mil that year? Would Reilly signs his extension at 7.5mil instead of 9.5mil if Nurse, Jones and McAvoy signs for 11mil. Those are factors who also need to be considered.
If COVID didn't happens, it is safe to assume other players will bump MM and even JT down as being top 7 contracts in the league but it still doesn't change the fact that Leafs will have not ONE, not TWO but THREE players making 12% of the cap(based on 90mil) each.

If the cap was at 90 mill I don’t think Brodie is the guy we sign. It would have been Pietrangelo. They almost still pulled the trigger on Pietrangelo despite having no cap space and were ready to do what Vegas is doing. Playing the LTIR game and carry 20 skaters. Of course Rielly would have signed for a bit more. I’m not sure what your point is? I’m not sure a 90 million cap would have affected the top half of the league that much because teams still would have had their internal cap numbers. It would have been league minimum and middle six players who see the biggest increase in contracts.

 

[Gabriel426]

If the cap was at 90 mill I don’t think Brodie is the guy we sign. It would have been Pietrangelo. They almost still pulled the trigger on Pietrangelo despite having no cap space and were ready to do what Vegas is doing. Playing the LTIR game and carry 20 skaters. Of course Rielly would have signed for a bit more. I’m not sure what your point is? I’m not sure a 90 million cap would have affected the top half of the league that much because teams still would have had their internal cap numbers. It would have been league minimum and middle six players who see the biggest increase in contracts.

Have to disagree with you here, I actually think the top players that were signed post COVID will most likely get 1-2mil increase on their deals. There is no way Pietra will sign under 10mil.
My original point is pretty much lost by now, lol.
It started with would Leafs be better off with someone like Horvat or Kadri at 8mil/yr plus someone like Nick Paul at 3.5mil Vs JT and his 11mil with a league minimum player like Hunt. Then the discussions led to would Leafs be better if it not for COVID. To me, I don't see a huge difference if COVID didn't happen and the cap really did went up to 90mil since all players will be asking for more if the cap raises instead of being flat.

 

[francis246]

Have to disagree with you here, I actually think the top players that were signed post COVID will most likely get 1-2mil increase on their deals. There is no way Pietra will sign under 10mil.
My original point is pretty much lost by now, lol.
It started with would Leafs be better off with someone like Horvat or Kadri at 8mil/yr plus someone like Nick Paul at 3.5mil Vs JT and his 11mil with a league minimum player like Hunt. Then the discussions led to would Leafs be better if it not for COVID. To me, I don't see a huge difference if COVID didn't happen and the cap really did went up to 90mil since all players will be asking for more if the cap raises instead of being flat.

Meh I agree with you on UFA players but I think the RFA internal caps for all teams probably stays the same. Plus GM’s are not stupid. Even if the cap raises no GM is paying Seth Jones 11 million when Matthews is Making 11 million. Value wise it just wouldn’t make sense. That’s why I disagree with your premise on those specific players you mentioned. Because we know their worth. The players that benefit the most from cap increases are post ELC players. Seth Jones for example was heading into his 3rd NHL deal. It would be 2/3 years before we’d see the true effects as the younger players coming off ELC’s would establish new comparables. Kind of like what Matthews and Marner did.

 

[Gabriel426]

Meh I agree with you on UFA players but I think the RFA internal caps for all teams probably stays the same. Plus GM’s are not stupid. Even if the cap raises no GM is paying Seth Jones 11 million when Matthews is Making 11 million. Value wise it just wouldn’t make sense. That’s why I disagree with your premise on those specific players you mentioned. Because we know their worth. The players that benefit the most from cap increases are post ELC players. Seth Jones for example was heading into his 3rd NHL deal. It would be 2/3 years before we’d see the true effects as the younger players coming off ELC’s would establish new comparables. Kind of like what Matthews and Marner did.

Jones was just an example. I think the reaction when he signed the deal, he was the first of the bunch, was he was overpaid and we all thought COVID will affect the market. Thats why I won't be surprised at all if there is no COVID and Jones ends up with a 11mil deal, which will trickle down to Nurse and McAvoy. Of the three off seasons since COVID. Only the first one where we saw UFAs didn't make bank like before. The 2nd off season was pretty much business as usual and this past summer is pretty much the same, the only exception is Johnny Hockey where he didn't make 10mil/yr on his new contract.

I just don't think there will be players coming off ELCs and getting 10mil plus deals like McD, Eichel, AM and MM. Even Bedard, unless he dominates like McD. You look at those four deals, McD is McD bc he is a tier or two above the rest of the best. Eichel is not even in Buffalo anymore. Then AM and MM being on the Leafs.
I just think GMs understand the meaning of RFAs and no teams will risk losing 4 straight 1st round picks with offer sheet. I do think more players coming off their ELCs taking bridge deals and just ask for trade or extend before the end of their contract.

 

[francis246]

Jones was just an example. I think the reaction when he signed the deal, he was the first of the bunch, was he was overpaid and we all thought COVID will affect the market. Thats why I won't be surprised at all if there is no COVID and Jones ends up with a 11mil deal, which will trickle down to Nurse and McAvoy. Of the three off seasons since COVID. Only the first one where we saw UFAs didn't make bank like before. The 2nd off season was pretty much business as usual and this past summer is pretty much the same, the only exception is Johnny Hockey where he didn't make 10mil/yr on his new contract.

I hear what you’re saying but it was purely circumstantial that Jones got 9 million. A bottom feeding team who had assets and cap space to spend overpaid him. Jones was available no one wanted him at that price lol. Anyways to wrap it back to Tavares, all that really matters is his value to Toronto. He’s still valuable based on production. He’s probably gonna be around for a long while even after this deal.

 

[Gabriel426]

I hear what you’re saying but it was purely circumstantial that Jones got 9 million. A bottom feeding team who had assets and cap space to spend overpaid him. Jones was available no one wanted him at that price lol. Anyways to wrap it back to Tavares, all that really matters is his value to Toronto. He’s still valuable based on production. He’s probably gonna be around for a long while even after this deal.

I think when JT current deals expire, unless Leafs become a gong show like the current Nucks, JT will sign the best deal in the league with the Leafs, like Gio's deal. And pass the Captaincy a year later to another UFA signing from the Leafs who currently plays in the Pacific, lol.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It started with would Leafs be better off with someone like Horvat or Kadri at 8mil/yr plus someone like Nick Paul at 3.5mil Vs JT and his 11mil with a league minimum player like Hunt. Then the discussions led to would Leafs be better if it not for COVID. To me, I don't see a huge difference if COVID didn't happen and the cap really did went up to 90mil since all players will be asking for more if the cap raises instead of being flat.

Since the Leafs still had Kadri on the team during the 2018-19 Season which was Tavares first year in Toronto, we know that Kadri's contract wasn't the reason he was traded to Colorado. If signing Tavares meant losing Kadri, wouldn't they have traded him right away?

 

[Gabriel426]

Since the Leafs still had Kadri on the team during the 2018-19 Season which was Tavares first year in Toronto, we know that Kadri's contract wasn't the reason he was traded to Colorado. If signing Tavares meant losing Kadri, wouldn't they have traded him right away?

Once again, Kadri’s type and not Kadri the player. In short a C making 8mil(unless it is a rewarding contract or the guy just dropped off), usually a C making 8mil is a low end 1C which is best to use as 2C on Contenders.

Would you have rather have Aho(8.5mil) plus Nick Paul(3.5) on the team or JT(11mil) and Hunt(950k). Pls don’t go on about the assets require for Aho or Paul….this is just a hypothetical situation.
From a production/stats stand point, it is close since the 8mil C will project to be 70pts player plus the 4mil fwd being 30pts player where as JT is a PPG and the league minimum player is about 15pts

 

[WillyC]

The two points from JT tonight were outstanding… despite this appreciation thread getting hijacked.

 

[1specter]

He seems to play his best when the mob comes after him. Please keep it up folks!

 

[al secord]

You are appreciated

 

[Altair]

The two points from JT tonight were outstanding… despite this appreciation thread getting hijacked.

Such is the fate of all appreciation threads on here

 

[alliuk12]

You can say what you want but this man is a real leafs fan if not he wouldn’t have left all that money on the table.

 

[Zybalto]

His 8 shots on goal in the 2nd were the most in a period for his career.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It should be noted that if your only "solution" to a pandemic is to magically force your massive free agent signing and captain with a NMC that took less to sign in his home and wants to stay to leave your competitive team by... [insert unspecified horrible action that would hurt the team short-term and long-term], then you don't actually have a solution at all.

Tavares was amazing tonight.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Seeing Tavares score a goal against the Islanders puts a smile on my face.

 

[kb]

Since the Leafs still had Kadri on the team during the 2018-19 Season which was Tavares first year in Toronto, we know that Kadri's contract wasn't the reason he was traded to Colorado. If signing Tavares meant losing Kadri, wouldn't they have traded him right away?

But they needed to free up space for Marner and Matthews.