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John Tavares appreciation thread

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Tavares' offensive play right now reminds me a lot of Toews in 2017-18

You think he's not doing good, you don't see him, and yet there he is, nearly a point every game, some of his nicest advanced stats in year, but something is just... off.

Season after that, Toews went beast mode.

With that said, I think JT is like 18 months away from being a LWer. I think whoever this top 6 winger we acquire is, it'll either be someone who seriously complements JT, or JT gets Marner back. I also think it's time for Tavares to "pass off" the captaincy to Matthews in a year or so, I think it weighs heavily on him.

I love Tavares, he looked good tonight in bursts, he's obviously a good vet and elite 1C, but he is cooling off and probably worth about 9.5-10.5M now. I liked what they were trying with him at the start of the season; dialling up his OZ% and taking away the defensive pressure. He's taking a heavy load right now, once healthy he'll look better.

I would definitely give him at least one of Hyman or Marner though.
 
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Tavares is like Stamkos and Malkin, the reality of it is their careers are winding down and the next generation is taking the spotlight. The once dominant superstars are now overshadowed by their younger peers, for Stamkos he's fought injuries, Malkin seems lost as of late and Tavares is no longer "the guy". We're lucky JT isn't an Erik Karlsson situation. These are all former greats who are still elite but are not Kucherov/Draisaitl/Makar/Matthews. Even a guy like Bergeron isn't "the guy" anymore. Tavares will slowly get worse over the next few years, I'd expect the last year of his deal to suck, and the last 2-3 spent on LW, but for now he is still good and definitely a top 20 if not top 15 C.
 
I just don’t think Nylander and Tavares work well together, and that’s not a knock on either.

Thronton - Tavares - Robertson
Nylander - Kerfoot - Simmonds

Mik be worth trying. Mik deserves to be higher than the 4th, but we need production.

You just can’t break up Matthews - Marner. They are a duo for the next 5 years, no touching it.
 
Critical91 said:
I just don’t think Nylander and Tavares work well together, and that’s not a knock on either.

Thronton - Tavares - Robertson
Nylander - Kerfoot - Simmonds

Mik be worth trying. Mik deserves to be higher than the 4th, but we need production.

You just can’t break up Matthews - Marner. They are a duo for the next 5 years, no touching it.
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Matthews and Marner were already on the same line together to start the season when Thornton got injured, so I think you mean not to take Hyman off their line.

So I also wouldn't mind seeing Tavares and Thornton together when he returns this coming week.
 
I think you take Mikheyev off of the Tavares-Nylander line first and foremost. Tavares and Nylander are doing better without Mikheyev, and Mikheyev is doing better without them.

Unpopular opinion, but unless you want to take Hyman off of the top line, the Leafs should put Vesey there. He's done well on that line. Maybe Robertson or Thornton can factor into the top 6, but Vesey should be considered as well.

Mikheyev and Kerfoot should remain together. They did very well together on the 3rd line, especially when Hyman was there as well. The Leafs could go back to that once Thornton returns.

Thornton-Matthews-Marner
Vesey-Tavares-Nylander
Hyman-Kerfoot-Mikheyev
Robertson-Spezza-Boyd
Petan/Engvall/Barabanov

Rotate Robertson and Vesey, and Thornton and Hyman. That is the healthy lineup you run sans Simmonds. Once Simmonds returns, we re-evaluate. That'll be 6 weeks worth of evaluation so things can change. Maybe rotate in Petan and Barabanov a little bit, but Barabanov and Engvall may be moved now that Robertson and Thornton are back. Engvall only has one more game before he requires waivers, so it is decision time with him. He is either a full time guy or is traded, because he is likely not clearing waivers.

Petan, Brooks, and Anderson are all unofficial top line Marlies/taxi squad guys at this point who can fill in when we need them.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
I think you take Mikheyev off of the Tavares-Nylander line first and foremost. Tavares and Nylander are doing better without Mikheyev, and Mikheyev is doing better without them.

Unpopular opinion, but unless you want to take Hyman off of the top line, the Leafs should put Vesey there. He's done well on that line. Maybe Robertson or Thornton can factor into the top 6, but Vesey should be considered as well.

Mikheyev and Kerfoot should remain together. They did very well together on the 3rd line, especially when Hyman was there as well. The Leafs could go back to that once Thornton returns.

Thornton-Matthews-Marner
Vesey-Tavares-Nylander
Hyman-Kerfoot-Mikheyev
Robertson-Spezza-Boyd
Petan/Engvall/Barabanov

That is the healthy lineup you run sans Simmonds. Once Simmonds returns, we re-evaluate. That'll be 6 weeks worth of evaluation so things can change. Maybe rotate in Petan and Barabanov a little bit, but Barabanov and Engvall may be moved now that Robertson and Thornton are back. Engvall only has one more game before he requires waivers, so it is decision time with him. He is either a full time guy or is traded, because he is likely not clearing waivers.
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If Thornton is going back on the line with Matthews and Marner, I think it makes more sense to put Hyman with Tavares and Nylander. In 2018-19 Tavares and Hyman played all season with each other at 5v5.
 
LeafsNation75 said:
If Thornton is going back on the line with Matthews and Marner, I think it makes more sense to put Hyman with Tavares and Nylander. In 2018-19 Tavares and Hyman played all season with each other at 5v5.
Click to expand...

Also a possibility I guess.
 
hockeynorth said:
Tavares' offensive play right now reminds me a lot of Toews in 2017-18

You think he's not doing good, you don't see him, and yet there he is, nearly a point every game, some of his nicest advanced stats in year, but something is just... off.

Season after that, Toews went beast mode.

With that said, I think JT is like 18 months away from being a LWer. I think whoever this top 6 winger we acquire is, it'll either be someone who seriously complements JT, or JT gets Marner back. I also think it's time for Tavares to "pass off" the captaincy to Matthews in a year or so, I think it weighs heavily on him.

I love Tavares, he looked good tonight in bursts, he's obviously a good vet and elite 1C, but he is cooling off and probably worth about 9.5-10.5M now. I liked what they were trying with him at the start of the season; dialling up his OZ% and taking away the defensive pressure. He's taking a heavy load right now, once healthy he'll look better.

I would definitely give him at least one of Hyman or Marner though.
Click to expand...
Tavares faceoff winning percentage so far this season is currently at 60.1% and something like that makes him reliable late in games if the Leafs are winning by 1 goal and he's on the ice for a defensive zone draw.

NHL Stats | NHL.com
 
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Unfortunately JT is looking like his age is catching up with his skating .. Despite his high salary it's evident he doesn't have the ability to drive the offense on his line as he used to. That being said he can still be an effective and productive player. Nylander on his line has helped with that. Those two have been in a bit of a mini-slump. Not as dominate as we've seen, and when they do get chances they're snakebit. Getting a more reliable left winger alongside them would do wonders IMO.

Not worried about him yet, he'll still find a way to be productive. I think most knew this would happen as he aged.
 
BertCorbeau said:
Unfortunately JT is looking like his age is catching up with his skating .. Despite his high salary it's evident he doesn't have the ability to drive the offense on his line as he used to. That being said he can still be an effective and productive player. Nylander on his line has helped with that. Those two have been in a bit of a mini-slump. Not as dominate as we've seen, and when they do get chances they're snakebit. Getting a more reliable left winger alongside them would do wonders IMO.

Not worried about him yet, he'll still find a way to be productive. I think most knew this would happen as he aged.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see Hyman there. They need someone to either dig or distribute
 
BertCorbeau said:
Unfortunately JT is looking like his age is catching up with his skating .. Despite his high salary it's evident he doesn't have the ability to drive the offense on his line as he used to. That being said he can still be an effective and productive player. Nylander on his line has helped with that. Those two have been in a bit of a mini-slump. Not as dominate as we've seen, and when they do get chances they're snakebit. Getting a more reliable left winger alongside them would do wonders IMO.

Not worried about him yet, he'll still find a way to be productive. I think most knew this would happen as he aged.
Click to expand...

When you watch his Islanders game tape and contrast it to what we see now, what jumps out at me is how he would really aggressively use his edge work in a slalom type skating style to avoid straight lines and use his lower body strength to fight off checkers, elude, drive, etc. It was an effective way to avoid having to engage in an open ice foot race What's lacking right now seems to be the power and the constant motor. At the start of the season he was really doing the full body extensions to really get a stride, but lately that hasn't happened as much either. So the skating is definitely a concern.
 
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All I care about is winning cups. If JT can deliver in the playoffs and take his game to another level when we need it I’m ok with him as a point a game player for most of his contract

put him with fast forwards and let him create offence like he always has. I would still sign him for the same contract in hindsight. You don’t pass up a player like him

I have a very strong feeling he will lift the cup for the Leafs possibly more than once
 
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Morgs said:
I see what you're saying, but my problem with it is that Tavares' numbers are actually right up there with guys like Aho/O'Reilly/Barkov/etc in play driving, chance generation, point production, etc. Sure his defensive game is suspect at times, but he makes up for it being a stronger offensive player than most 1C in the league.

I feel like people kinda look at other 'elite' players around the league and think "the grass is greener" but in reality most stars have the same issues except for the Matthews, McDavids, and MacKinnons of the world.
Click to expand...

Tavares' stats line also brings to mind Mats Sundin. Leaf career highs of 47 goals per year, but probably 30's in a normal year going back to his Islanders days. Points wise on Toronto, he's good for about 82 points in 82 games (Tavares is currently at 162 points in 160 games, so basically we have 2 seasons worth of sample size on the dot. So you're right about him being right up there along with the 1C's of the world. Statistically, it's never been a concern and you wouldn't even think about the question of decline if just looking at the numbers.

But again, it's like even looking at Mats as a comparison, Sundin was a noticeable line driver on every shift. Physical presence who tracked the entire 200 feet of ice, created offense by dragging up inferior linemates, broke down defenses but sticking out the shoulder and hip and driving into traffic, muscular wraparounds, etc. Guess it just raises the philosophical question, if it looks good on paper, is that good enough, or do we need more eye test dominance?
 
His individual points percentage (IPP) -the percentage of on-ice goals he records a point- does appear to be trending down. In conjunction with him visibly appearing to have lost a step, it doesn't look as though he's quite the offensive driver that he once was.

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Year[/TD][TD]5v5[/TD][TD]All-situations[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2010[/TD][TD]55.56%[/TD][TD]64.29%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2011[/TD][TD]79.17%[/TD][TD]80.72%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2012[/TD][TD]77.42%[/TD][TD]75.00%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2013[/TD][TD]77.78%[/TD][TD]74.60%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2014[/TD][TD]74.00%[/TD][TD]74.16%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2015[/TD][TD]73.44%[/TD][TD]72.88%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2016[/TD][TD]84.91%[/TD][TD]70.71%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2017[/TD][TD]63.16%[/TD][TD]68.75%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2018[/TD][TD]67.24%[/TD][TD]69.42%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2019[/TD][TD]72.29%[/TD][TD]66.17%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2020[/TD][TD]64.44%[/TD][TD]62.50%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2021[/TD][TD]71.43%[/TD][TD]66.67%[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
He's still very strong on the draw though, so we might have a Miller/Pettersson situation coming up where Tavares takes all the draws, but assumes the responsibilities of a winger.
 
Tavares and Nylander have changed their focus. They are better, and the team is far better of for it. Courtesy
@stephen_burtch

EuSynFgXMAQHZ4d
 
I think Tavares gets a bad rap from some due to his straight line skating speed, or lack thereof, He's never been fast or flashy BUT is very good down low in both ends of the rink...I think he fit in better with the Isles style of play Down low cycling etc) I was against us signing him from the start only due to the salary cap but he'll age okay due to the fact he's never relied on his skating to be effective...imo he needs to limit his puck carrying through the neutral zone and let his line mates handle that part of the game and then do his thing deep in either zone. He'll always be a point producer even if he moves to the wing in the future with his shot, work ethic and presence on the PP... Hopefully the salary cap will get back to moving up starting the year after next and his salary will be less constrictive for the team during his last 3 seasons.
 
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Northernguy10 said:
I think Tavares gets a bad rap from some due to his straight line skating speed, or lack thereof, He's never been fast or flashy BUT is very good down low in both ends of the rink...I think he fit in better with the Isles style of play Down low cycling etc) I was against us signing him from the start only due to the salary cap but he'll age okay due to the fact he's never relied on his skating to be effective...imo he needs to limit his puck carrying through the neutral zone and let his line mates handle that part of the game and then do his thing deep in either zone. He'll always be a point producer even if he moves to the wing in the future with his shot, work ethic and presence on the PP... Hopefully the salary cap will get back to moving up starting the year after next and his salary will be less constrictive for the team during his last 3 seasons.
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I have said it before, and I'll say it again. He is the Tim Duncan of the NHL. There is absolutely nothing about his game that gets you out of your seat, but he is just very good at everything. I think the people who are critical of JT are oblivious TBH. 80% of what he does on the ice will never translate on a stat sheet.
 
He sucks. Bench him for the 3rd. -1 and the most giveaways on the team.

Who cares what Shawn McKenzie has to say about things. He's pumping his bosses' tires.
 
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