Value of: John Marino to Canada before his NTC kicks in, 24-25 offseason

[dgibb10]

LMAO dude. I provide a detailed analysis, and your response it to ignore all that and say to replace Marino with a 7D.

Admit you don't know what you're talking about and take the L.

I really like Dougie. But they do have to think about the longer-term. The injury and age-related decline are also huge concerns.

For cap reasons, assuming we give Luke and Nemec 8 year deals, we realistically need to move on from at least 1 of:

Palat, Hamilton, Marino by the 26-27 season.

Marino: saves us least money, worse than hamilton, probably fits what we need more, probably gets us the most assets
Hamilton: saves us most money, the best player, big range he could get from a team giving a haul to him being viewed as a cap dump.
Palat: saves us big money, least valuable position, probably a cap dump to move.

Luke, nemec, Clarke, Holtz, Arseni, Lenni, Casey, Bahl, Vilen, and Hatakka are the guys who's development needs to be watched.

If Luke and Nemec becomes the stars they should be right away, Marino could be on the move

If they break out offensively but struggle defensively, (Casey as well), Hamilton could be the one to go.

If Gritysuk, Clarke, and Holtz develop well, it leaves little room for Palat in the top 9 which makes him the likely guy to leave.

Clarke gives me a lot of similarities to Fabian Zetterlund

 

[Empoleon8771]

He should've acquired him when PIT was selling Marino low.

Yeah I wish Hextall would have tried for Hoglander instead of Smith in that deal. Absolute misfire of a deal by him to give up Marino for a guy who can't skate well enough to be a NHLer.

If New Jersey is thinking about trading Marino, I actually think Marino for Hoglander is still a realistic idea for a swap.

4.4 million per year. That’s acceptable even if he gets bumped to the 3rd pairing. Career #5 D Zadorov wants 6x6. 4.4x3 is excellent in this rising cap environment.

That poster is the same poster that insists on the Penguins board that the original Marino trade was good because Marino was a cap dump and getting a 3rd for him was a win.

 

[Gurglesons]

4.4 million per year. That’s acceptable even if he gets bumped to the 3rd pairing. Career #5 D Zadorov wants 6x6. 4.4x3 is excellent in this rising cap environment.

Zadorov has the size to be an effective player in the playoffs.

John Marino does not.

LMAO dude. I provide a detailed analysis, and your response is to ignore all that and say to replace Marino with a 7D.

Admit you don't know what you're talking about and take the L.

Saw John Marino play for many years and with the Devils.

I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to him being overrated because of xGF% and Jfresh charts.

It'll be a lot harder to move Marino after next year if he is one of the 10 worst defenseman in the league as far as goal against metrics given Jersey will need to begin paying Hughes, Bahl and Nemec. He had a similar profile to Ben Chiarot this year by the raw analytics.

 

[bossram]

For cap reasons, assuming we give Luke and Nemec 8 year deals, we realistically need to move on from at least 1 of:

Palat, Hamilton, Marino by the 26-27 season.

Marino: saves us least money, worse than hamilton, probably fits what we need more, probably gets us the most assets
Hamilton: saves us most money, the best player, big range he could get from a team giving a haul to him being viewed as a cap dump.
Palat: saves us big money, least valuable position, probably a cap dump to move.

Luke, nemec, Clarke, Holtz, Arseni, Lenni, Casey, Bahl, Vilen, and Hatakka are the guys who's development needs to be watched.

If Luke and Nemec becomes the stars they should be right away, Marino could be on the move

If they break out offensively but struggle defensively, (Casey as well), Hamilton could be the one to go.

If Gritysuk, Clarke, and Holtz develop well, it leaves little room for Palat in the top 9 which makes him the likely guy to leave.

Clarke gives me a lot of similarities to Fabian Zetterlund

They will need to clear cap at some point. Which is why I think they should look at moving Dougie, if possible. He clears the most cap space if moved, and presents some worrying age and injury issues they probably should proactively get ahead of.

Regardless of how Luke, Nemec, or Casey develop, they're not crowding out the same role that Marino plays (tough comps, DZ starts, PK). They still need a guy to play those minutes. They definitely crowd out Dougie's minutes (offensive minutes, trailing situations, PP). And trading Marino clears literally the least amount of cap space of the options you presented. It really doesn't make any sense to move Marino, unless the club suddenly just thinks he sucks.

Palat was a bad deal from day 1 and they shouldn't have signed him.

 

[Gurglesons]

That poster is the same poster that insists on the Penguins board that the original Marino trade was good because Marino was a cap dump and getting a 3rd for him was a win.

Huge win. So glad I don't have to watch card guys and people who admit they don't watch the Penguins talk about how great Marino was on the regular anymore.

 

[bossram]

Saw John Marino play for many years and with the Devils.

I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to him being overrated because of xGF% and Jfresh charts.

It'll be a lot harder to move Marino after next year if he is one of the 5 worst defenseman in the league as far as goal against metrics given Jersey will need to begin paying Hughes, Bahl and Nemec.

Lmao, you literally don't.

You're saying he's overrated by xG% and "JFresh Charts", when in reality he didn't look great by those metrics last year. You literally don't know what you're talking about.

And FWIW, Marino was phenomenal for the Devils in 22-23. A godsend. He was fantastic in the playoffs too.

Huge win. So glad I don't have to watch card guys and people who admit they don't watch the Penguins talk about how great Marino was on the regular anymore.

It was a great trade. Helped ensured the Pens will miss the playoffs for the rest of Crosby and Malkin's careers. Good job!

 

[Gurglesons]

It was a great trade. Helped ensured the Pens will miss the playoffs for the rest of Crosby and Malkin's careers. Good job!

Marino had no effect on this. Mike Sullivan is carrying the majority of the blame for that.

Also, you just missed the playoffs with your stars in your prime with John Marino so talk about rocks and glass houses lol...

 

[bossram]

Yeah I wish Hextall would have tried for Hoglander instead of Smith in that deal. Absolute misfire of a deal by him to give up Marino for a guy who can't skate well enough to be a NHLer.

If New Jersey is thinking about trading Marino, I actually think Marino for Hoglander is still a realistic idea for a swap.

That poster is the same poster that insists on the Penguins board that the original Marino trade was good because Marino was a cap dump and getting a 3rd for him was a win.

I don't think NJ would really be interested in Hoglander. Not that he's not useful, just a small-ish forward is probably not what they're looking to add, certainly not in a Marino deal (which isn't realistic anyway).

Yeah, this guy is doubling down on his L takes now.

Marino had no effect on this. Mike Sullivan is carrying the majority of the blame for that.

Also, you just missed the playoffs with your stars in your prime with John Marino so talk about rocks and glass houses lol...

Marino and the Devils were great in 22-23. I think they'll be closer to that level this season.

I like how you conveniently ignored that you were wrong about the "Jfresh Charts" and xG% stuff. You really just can't take the Ls. Can't admit that you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Gurglesons]

Marino and the Devils were great in 22-23. I think they'll be closer to that level this season.

I like how you conveniently ignored that you were wrong about the "Jfresh Charts" and xG% stuff. You really just can't take the Ls. Can't admit that you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

Neat. Since we are just turning this into personal discussion, I'll digress.

As I said, the Devils would benefit from getting out of the Marino contract. Hamilton and Nemec is a great 1 - 2 down the RH side and allows them to save cap while returning some assets from some team that overvalues transitional defense.

 

[bossram]

Neat. Since we are just turning this into personal discussion, I'll digress.

As I said, the Devils would benefit from getting out of the Marino contract. Hamilton and Nemec is a great 1 - 2 down the RH side and allows them to save cap while returning some assets from some team that overvalues transitional defense.

I've already provided a very detailed post arguing against this, and that Hamilton should be looked at much more seriously as the right-side player to be moved. Unless you think a mid-30s Hamilton coming off a serious injury should be the candidate to get more defensive responsibilities heaped on him.

It's not really making anything "personal". Just pointing out you were blatantly wrong about the analytics stuff, but refuse to admit it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I've already provided a very detailed post arguing against this, and that Hamilton should be looked at much more seriously as the right-side player to be moved. Unless you think a mid-30s Hamilton coming off a serious injury should be the candidate to get more defensive responsibilities heaped on him.

It's not really making anything "personal". Just pointing out you were blatantly wrong about the analytics stuff, but refuse to admit it.

Hamilton is a legitimate top pairing defenseman. That's why you keep him. He's 30 and will be 35 at the end of that contract.

Would be wild if the Devils moved him out especially after how badly they performed this year without him.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Hamilton is a legitimate top pairing defenseman. That's why you keep him. He's 30 and will be 35 at the end of that contract.

Would be wild if the Devils moved him out especially after how badly they performed this year without him.

It wouldn’t be that wild. Nemec will be a number 1 D during the life of that contract. I’m not eager to move Dougie, but it would likely make some sense if Nemec (and Luke) hit the higher end of their ceilings quickly.

 

[dgibb10]

Yeah I wish Hextall would have tried for Hoglander instead of Smith in that deal. Absolute misfire of a deal by him to give up Marino for a guy who can't skate well enough to be a NHLer.

If New Jersey is thinking about trading Marino, I actually think Marino for Hoglander is still a realistic idea for a swap.



That poster is the same poster that insists on the Penguins board that the original Marino trade was good because Marino was a cap dump and getting a 3rd for him was a win.

The problem with Hoglander is just that he'd be trying to fit into the same kind of box as Holtz, and there is only 1 top 6 spot available for the forseeable future with Mercer, Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Meier

 

[Gurglesons]

It wouldn’t be that wild. Nemec will be a number 1 D during the life of that contract. I’m not eager to move Dougie, but it would likely make some sense if Nemec (and Luke) hit the higher end of their ceilings quickly.

I mean, Nemec was one of the best defensemen in the league this year. I know he has some more upside, but I'd be very concerned with the long term viability as a contender if they moved on from Hamilton.

Aligned though, there probably is realistically no reason to move on from either Dougie or Marino given the cap cushion the Devils have over the next two years.

Once Nemec is up for his bridge or long term deal Marino will only have one year left on his deal and be like 30 so should easily be able to move that with the cap increase.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Marino had a bad year last year. Nemec doesn't get paid for 2 years. An 8 team no trade list is not a concerning limiting of his potential destinations. It's good to have defensive depth, NJ clearly needed it last year. I'd be happy to have Marino on the 3rd pair if everyone's healthy.

I don't see any reason to trade him. MAYBE if Colin Miller is willing to re-sign in NJ for a tiny deal and you can get a very valuable piece for Marino, but I don't expect a very valuable piece to be out there.

 

[bossram]

Hamilton is a legitimate top pairing defenseman. That's why you keep him. He's 30 and will be 35 at the end of that contract.

Would be wild if the Devils moved him out especially after how badly they performed this year without him.

He's a legit top-pairing defenseman that doesn't face tough competition or defensive situations.

And yeah, he's 30, was never quick to begin with, and his biggest offensive tool (shot) may be compromised after a very serious injury.

You're the one saying the Devils' young defensemen will develop and need more responsibility. Well if they do, Dougie is already occupying a lot of the offensive and PP time. I'm not saying move him tomorrow. I'm saying they need to explore it before it becomes obvious to everyone they need to move off him.

And yes, again, you are ignoring when you were blatantly wrong.

 

[Pure West]

If the insinuation you're making is true (his 8 team no trade list is basically Canada+Buffalo or something), then I really want no part of acquiring him if I'm a Canadian team. You don't want a player who doesn't wanna be there who is signed for multiple years, particularly a mid-bottom of your lineup kind of player.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's a legit top-pairing defenseman that doesn't face tough competition or defensive situations.

And yeah, he's 30, was never quick to begin with, and his biggest offensive tool (shot) may be compromised after a very serious injury.

You're the one saying the Devils' young defensemen will develop and need more responsibility. Well if they do, Dougie is already occupying a lot of the offensive and PP time. I'm not saying move him tomorrow. I'm saying they need to explore it before it becomes obvious to everyone they need to move off him.

And yes, again, you are ignoring when you were blatantly wrong.

What am I wrong about? Devils fans and other posters that I quoted consistently used xGF% and charts to defend Marino's play last year with the Devils and previous years with Pittsburgh.

You can think I'm wrong, that's fine. Let's move on.

 

[Devils Trap]

John Marino is fantastic. No Devil fan wants to trade him. Hes a top 4 defensmen and the best defensive minded Dman on the team.

Zero interest in moving him anywhere, his contract is a steal and we will happily keep him

 

[dirtydanglez]

devils should only do this if hes needed to get a goalie.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Didn't realize all the Canadian teams were amalgamating to try and finally win a Cup after 30yrs.

 

[Zippy316]

If the Devils are trading Marino, it should only be as part of the deal to restructure their defense. Right now they’re looking at:

Siegenthaler - Hamilton
Hughes - Marino
Bahl - Nemec

The makeup of the D is kind of off and an big issue here is they really don’t have a good option to pair with Hughes. Hughes - Nemec is too green but could be dynamite in the future, Hughes - Hamilton is too offensive, and Hughes - Marino is too soft. Ideally, you would a McDonagh/Tanev type instead of Marino.

I think the Devils might just stick it out in all honesty. Can flip Hughes between Marino and Nemec based on match-ups and perhaps give the Hughes-Nemec really favorable minutes when they play together.

 

[Vivaldi]

Seems kind of self sabotaging to shoehorn a player to a place he doesn't want to go before he can contractually veto it.

What if the Devils went the other way?

Ondrej Palat for Ryan Graves

Crosby gets a past his prime Palat who should still compliment him as a winger, Devils get Graves and put him with Marino while saving 1.5 million off the cap to put towards a goalie. Yeah Palat comes off the cap sooner but at that point Graves would be easy to trade with the cap being at 100 million or over.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

John Marino is fantastic. No Devil fan wants to trade him. Hes a top 4 defensmen and the best defensive minded Dman on the team.

Zero interest in moving him anywhere, his contract is a steal and we will happily keep him

Year ago he was fantastic, but this season he has been a really big disappointment. There were too many times when he was careless, butter soft and his effort level and attention to details weren't there. I hope he bounce back to the level he was before.

If he is the same player he was year ago, I wouldn't trade him elsewhere. But if he is the same player we saw this year, I happily would upgrade him to DeMelo or someone similar.

 

[My3Sons]

Marino had no effect on this. Mike Sullivan is carrying the majority of the blame for that.

Also, you just missed the playoffs with your stars in your prime with John Marino so talk about rocks and glass houses lol...

Your dislike for Marino is well worn, but NJ didn't miss the playoffs with their stars in their prime. Hamilton was out virtually all season after surgery, Hughes was sent for surgery, Meier was sent for surgery, and Bratt was too injured to play in the World Championships. Hischier missed time as well. As the saying goes, the most important ability is availability. You don't have a star in their prime if they are on the injured list. Beyond that, you and I both know that no one player is why a team misses the playoffs aside from maybe a goalie. Look, I get it, you don't like Marino for whatever reason which is fine, but this was a reach.