I swear O'Gara will be a serviceable player in a zone scheme. He can't handle a man system, but that doesn't make him worthless. Plenty of competent defensemen would struggle (and have) in our system.
Player Discussion John Gilmour
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Yeah I see that too. A containment player.
He and all of the rooks are lost with net front coverage.
Pionk made a stupid stupid play on the tying goal against wsh.
But guess what... So did Klein... Its the coaching.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
I still think Gilmour has been at least as good as Pionk.
Gilmour isn't as effective in the offensive zone, and he's not the guy throwing his weight around in the defensive zone, but he is so much better at gaining possession of the puck and then making smart transition plays with it.
Gilmour isn't as effective in the offensive zone, and he's not the guy throwing his weight around in the defensive zone, but he is so much better at gaining possession of the puck and then making smart transition plays with it.
- Aug 5, 2010
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When did you stop actually watching games? Gilmour is a whole level below Pionk based on their total body of work in the NHL but if you measure specifically in two games against the Caps then it’s miles further.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
I haven't stopped. Pionk has earned AV's trust more, for whatever that's worth.
He is much more noticeable than Gilmour, but that includes the mistakes he makes. I don't understand how his mistakes get swept under the rug so easily, while Gilmour gets shredded for much smaller errors.
Pionk certainly looks to have a higher upside, but aside from his usage, I don't see a reason to assume he is better than Gilmour right now.
He is much more noticeable than Gilmour, but that includes the mistakes he makes. I don't understand how his mistakes get swept under the rug so easily, while Gilmour gets shredded for much smaller errors.
Pionk certainly looks to have a higher upside, but aside from his usage, I don't see a reason to assume he is better than Gilmour right now.
- Aug 5, 2010
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I’m just writing what I see when I watch them play. To me the difference is clear and pretty significant (that’s why I wrote my original post above). That’s why your post about Pionk and Gilmour performance being comparable is surprising to ME. I could be wrong but I notice a lot of bad reads, failed executions and staying behind plays and being unable to catch-up from Gilmour than good plays. To ME his good to bad ratio is very negative while at the same time Pionk’s is positive. Again I could be wrong.
Inferno
Registered User
Gilmour has been pretty bad.
Pionk has been solid.
Shame deangelo is missing all this developmental time
Pionk has been solid.
Shame deangelo is missing all this developmental time
Harbour Dog
Registered User
Definitely fair. And I'm certainly in the minority with my opinion, so it's probably more likely that I'm wrong.
I just don't think I am haha.
Either way, next year is a fresh start for each of them to try to stick in the NHL. Hopefully whatever system is here in place of AV's is easier for defensemen to thrive in.
Yeah it looks like Gilmour has plateaued where Pionk's game is rising. Pionk still looks to be the real deal. Even O'Gara is starting to rise slightly where Gilmour has not really moved his game perhaps downward. Love Gilmour's skating but needs more characteristics to his game to remain next season. I do not see him lasting long.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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Gilmour always struck me as having a Matt Gilroy like career trajectory.
All of Gilmour's shots have been blocked in the last 5 games it feels like. He looks like he's struggling and is starting to sink.
- Oct 23, 2014
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3rd world man's Nick Leddy
The only thing he's good at is pouncing on juicy loose pucks in the dzone and skating the puck out.
The only thing he's good at is pouncing on juicy loose pucks in the dzone and skating the puck out.
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eco's bones
Registered User
FWIW Gilmour has played a lot better than I expected he would. He's just not nearly as good as Pionk who looks legit. Gilmour's more an adventure in the defensive end and he takes too many risks up the ice. He's able in some cases to mitigate those risks by coming back fast but even getting back into a play after chasing it back down---positioning is going to suffer and for a smaller player it also can mean giving up more physical leverage. If anything I think Gilmour's offensive game is at least pretty close to Pionk's---it's the rest of it that's not as good. Gilmour was the go to offensive D in Hartford before his recall. He was getting the lion's share of power play time and Pionk as far as I know wasn't getting all that much--so that's changed since they've both been up with the Rangers.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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O'Gara is not a bad player. He's not the fleetest of foot, but he's nowhere near as slow as Staal, to whom he gets compared a lot. With more games, he can adapt better to the NHL pace, make decisions on outs a little faster and be a serviceable 5th/6th.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
- 52,443
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I'm on the fence with Gilmour. He's got wheels and he's trying out there, I know this. But he's undersized and his hockey sense doesn't seem so great.
eco's bones
Registered User
O'Gara has kind of figured out what his limitations are and how to play within them. That keeps the goof ups to a minimum.
No he hasn't. Not even close. Gilmour, Namestiknov and Buchnevich are guys I can see Gorton using to move up in the draft. Whether it's in the top 5 with their own pick. Moving up from some of those late rounders 4-5 slots. Gilmour is clearly not in the future with all the left handed D guys they traded for at the deadline.
IMO, AV is out and Gorton looks to build a team with forwards and d guys who play much more physical and with an edge like the Bruins do. Those 3 guys I listed above do not play that type of game.
Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
Fwiw, I simply cannot stand that term "serviceable". Seems to lessen the player, but otherwise I guess it's a necessary description.
For me, what has been standing out amongst other things Pionk does well is his being "in control" of the ice when he has the puck, especially on the PP and also entering the zone.
From what I've read, Pionk hasn't been on the PP too much prior to the Rangers, and an kind of wondering "why not"?
Better alternatives? ADA I assume for one, but don't see how Gilmour would be a better choice. Pionk makes better decisions and convicted decisions, right or wrong.
For me, what has been standing out amongst other things Pionk does well is his being "in control" of the ice when he has the puck, especially on the PP and also entering the zone.
From what I've read, Pionk hasn't been on the PP too much prior to the Rangers, and an kind of wondering "why not"?
Better alternatives? ADA I assume for one, but don't see how Gilmour would be a better choice. Pionk makes better decisions and convicted decisions, right or wrong.
Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
O'Gara? On the fence with him. I get it, a poor man's Staal, if we're lucky. Would he be someone you can trust with the game on the line? I could be wrong but, to me he seems like a consistent BODY being in the way of opposing players.
We need more talented dmen. Can't believe he isn't anything more than a stop gap until someone is ready to take his spot. Shouldn't be very long.
We need more talented dmen. Can't believe he isn't anything more than a stop gap until someone is ready to take his spot. Shouldn't be very long.
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NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
What are the plans for DeAngelo, Gilmore and Pionk? Thesese 3 seem somewhat redundant. Will any of them be moved for draft pick or used to trade up? O'Gara doesn't seem like NHL Dman to me. Glad that Lindgren went pro, we desperately need more physical Dmen.
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
Keep ADA and Pionk with the big club, they sure af aren't "redundant", Gilmour to the AHL ... done.
