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Player Discussion John Gilmour

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nyr2k2 said:
If he's stupid and has low IQ and no idea where to be positionally, I don't think moving him to forward is going to alleviate a whole lot. People ***** about Jimmy Vesey being a moron and having no idea what's going on and where to be. That would probably be the outcome of taking a low-IQ defender and moving him up top. I mean what would you be hoping for--a 2017 version of David Desharnais but on the wing? Does anyone want that? I mean I guess you can try it, but I would only advocate for moving Gilmour away from D if he proves he's absolutely incapable in--big part here--a different defensive system.

That said, I don't think he's that terrible defensively. He looks like a rookie who is more concerned with moving the puck than playing defense. I think he can be coached into a passable defensive player, which would be fine if his offense developed.
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I’ve noticed recently HFNYRs been obsessed with the idea of taking smooth skating “offensive” defensemen and converting them to forwards. Pretty asinine imo.
 
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JohnC said:
I’ve noticed recently HFNYRs been obsessed with the idea of taking smooth skating “offensive” defensemen and converting them to forwards. Pretty asinine imo.
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Yeah I mean I remember it with Matt Gilroy, which sort of made sense since he WAS a forward. Gilmour is also going to be 25 at the start of next season. He has played a good bit of hockey. AFAIK, hes always played defense. Maybe if this guy was like 20, 21 and having defensive problems, it would be worth considering. This guy is relatively advanced in age though; not sure if moving him would be appropriate right now.
 
There are lots of guys in the NHL now who play a similar game to Gilmour who aren't All-Stars defensively but can help move the puck and join the rush creating odd-man rushes. Dan Boyle. Sami Vatanen. Trevor Daley. Guys who understand how to play to their strengths and learn how to play a more defensively passable game like this are normally valuable. As a 3rd pairing defenseman this team has had FAR WORSE and most teams do have FAR WORSE. The guy skates his way out of trouble routinely which is a very unique skill.



Note - I am not comparing Gilmour in quality to Dan Boyle, just the style of play.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
I don't know if this post is tongue-in-cheek, but AV has made many puzzling observations over the years.
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The latter more than the former. Unfortunately, he really did make the statement a week or so ago. Soft, can't play defense......exactly AV's type.
 
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NYR Viper said:
There are lots of guys in the NHL now who play a similar game to Gilmour who aren't All-Stars defensively but can help move the puck and join the rush creating odd-man rushes. Dan Boyle. Sami Vatanen. Trevor Daley. Guys who understand how to play to their strengths and learn how to play a more defensively passable game like this are normally valuable. As a 3rd pairing defenseman this team has had FAR WORSE and most teams do have FAR WORSE. The guy skates his way out of trouble routinely which is a very unique skill.



Note - I am not comparing Gilmour in quality to Dan Boyle, just the style of play.
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He's not currently a third pair defensemen. He's going to have to make improvements in decision making and defense. Its possible, but he doesn't look any better defensively right now than at any point since we've signed him. He looks more involved offensively, so that might be the improvement he's made.
 
NYR Viper said:
There are lots of guys in the NHL now who play a similar game to Gilmour who aren't All-Stars defensively but can help move the puck and join the rush creating odd-man rushes. Dan Boyle. Sami Vatanen. Trevor Daley. Guys who understand how to play to their strengths and learn how to play a more defensively passable game like this are normally valuable. As a 3rd pairing defenseman this team has had FAR WORSE and most teams do have FAR WORSE. The guy skates his way out of trouble routinely which is a very unique skill.



Note - I am not comparing Gilmour in quality to Dan Boyle, just the style of play.
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Forget style, all of the defensemen you mentioned were 10x more competent when it came to DEFENSE.

I dont care where is focuses are offensively, dont care if he worries about moving the puck... because we need to be able to get the puck back first for him to be able to do that. And we cant when he is on the ice. He is a huge liability. He gets caught standing still looking around for who he should be covering. It happened multiple times just last night.

He will not be a defenseman in this league, or player period because forget converting him to forward.
 
kovazub94 said:
Why would AV crap on his player? This honor is only reserved for Lundqvist, Buch to some extent and Miller
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I was refering to TB's post itself as potentially tongue-in-cheek (as in, TB wasn't actually suggesting O'Gara was good like AV said). I definitely wouldn't expect AV to speak negatively of a player's game to the press.
 
RGY said:
Forget style, all of the defensemen you mentioned were 10x more competent when it came to DEFENSE.

I dont care where is focuses are offensively, dont care if he worries about moving the puck... because we need to be able to get the puck back first for him to be able to do that. And we cant when he is on the ice. He is a huge liability. He gets caught standing still looking around for who he should be covering. It happened multiple times just last night.

He will not be a defenseman in this league, or player period because forget converting him to forward.
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In Gilmour's defense, you could say this about literally every defender on the team including Brady Skjei. It's why we've been giving up 40 shots per night. No one knows where to be, who to cover. It's been a huge problem in this system for a while now and appears, somehow, to be getting worse.
 
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Reminds me of Joe Corvo... I think he can have a similar career... Corvo was also 25-26 when he began to break in too... tremendous skater with below average defense and a good shot.
 
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Harbour Dog said:
He was bad for what I seen of the game, and his numbers don't make it seem like he improved in the last period and a half.

O'Gara just destroys the guys he plays with though. Part of me wants to see O'Gara/Staal. Just for the spectacle.
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How many goals would get scored on?
 
Harbour Dog said:
He was bad for what I seen of the game, and his numbers don't make it seem like he improved in the last period and a half.

O'Gara just destroys the guys he plays with though. Part of me wants to see O'Gara/Staal. Just for the spectacle.
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Here you go...



(It's MDZ-Girardi, but this is pretty much how it would go)
 
I'm somewhere in the middle on Gilmour. His defensive reads are not very good, possible system but even in it others look better. But that skating, I think he could carve out a bottom pair D NHL career but that would be based on him improving from where he is now.
 
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No fuss at all .

Tho if it was ada there would be very little benefit of the doubt thrown his way the way most of us should be doing here... (and rightfully so)
 
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nyr2k2 said:
In Gilmour's defense, you could say this about literally every defender on the team including Brady Skjei. It's why we've been giving up 40 shots per night. No one knows where to be, who to cover. It's been a huge problem in this system for a while now and appears, somehow, to be getting worse.
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Not “somehow”

The defensive capabilities of the guys on the ice is worse today than at any point in the last 15 years. The system doesn’t help, but it’s turned to a situation where it’s no longer the primary cause of the problems.
 
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Tawnos said:
Not “somehow”

The defensive capabilities of the guys on the ice is worse today than at any point in the last 15 years. The system doesn’t help, but it’s turned to a situation where it’s no longer the primary cause of the problems.
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I'd say you're definitely right that since mcd got here we've never had a defence as poor as we have now. With that said I think a few guys have shown real promise for the future. I personally think ada has legit 2nd pair upside...pionk as well. Gilmour as a solid number 5 or 6. Figure skjei and shatty in there as well and you've got 5 pieces that are good pieces going forward.

Staal. .smith...those 2 are the big questions going forward.

If they went...

Staal shatty
Skjei ada
Gilmour pionk

Next year...id be totally fine with it in a new more balanced defensive system.
 
Tawnos said:
Not “somehow”

The defensive capabilities of the guys on the ice is worse today than at any point in the last 15 years. The system doesn’t help, but it’s turned to a situation where it’s no longer the primary cause of the problems.
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I disagree. The players are worse than they’ve been for a long time yes but that makes the system issues even worse because now you have worse guys trying to play a demanding and ridiculous system they’re even less fit for.
 
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Inferno said:
No fuss at all .

Tho if it was ada there would be very little benefit of the doubt thrown his way the way most of us should be doing here... (and rightfully so)
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Why rightfully so?.

There were posters cursing off Gilmour because he played it wrong in the GDT. Absolutely painful to read posts like that. He’s a damn rookie who is getting thrown into very difficult scenarios at this stage of the season. Rookies make mistakes, especially on defense.
 
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