Joe Thornton Discussion Thread

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I don't know if Thornton is fast enough to play with Matthews and Marner

 

[cgc83]

I wouldn't look too deep into it. There will be plenty of mixing up, this is an early "shock" for players and fans alike to expect a different season with plenty of tinkering. What is more of a surprise than Joe playing wing on the 1st line?

Players all know now, "anything is possible". Perform and expect constant uncertainties in a very different season (in a most different year).

oh for sure you could easily swap line combos and that be that but 56 game shorten season is a bit iffy to be throwing together these types of line combos i feel . As well that opposing team isnt going to take too long to figure out who the shooter is going to be on that passer/shooter/passer top line . At least with Willy beside Matthews a team could never be too sure. Doubtful but if it works then great

 

[Walshy7]

I don't know if Thornton is fast enough to play with Matthews and Marner

He’s not, not even close to it

 

[Stephen]

did I say that you did? All I’m doing is commenting on him being on the first line with marner and matthews

No, this is your third post in a row disputing a pro rated 40-45 point projection. So you need to sort out whether your critique is:

1) 40-45 point pace for Joe Thornton is not achievable.

2) 40-45 points pace for Thornton at 1st line LW would be too low relative to the position.

 

[ottomaddox]

I don't know if Thornton is fast enough to play with Matthews and Marner

So then he'll be the 3rd or 4th player entering the zone. Is that an issue when Rielly and Brodie are playing?

 

[Walshy7]

No, this is your third post in a row disputing a pro rated 40-45 point projection. So you need to sort out whether your critique is:

1) 40-45 point pace for Joe Thornton is not achievable.

2) 40-45 points pace for Thornton at 1st line LW would be too low relative to the position.

both are true. It’s not achievable without marner and matthews (or nylander tavares for that matter) and it’s no where near enough for a player playing alongside that caliber of player.

maybe I misquoted you a few posts back because my whole point was about him being on the 1st line is a waste of matthews and marner

Edit: I’m happy he is on the team but should not rise above the 3rd line except very rare circumstances

 

[Sypher04]

Matthews and Marner isn't really a speed line anyway.

 

[Notsince67]

on the first line with matthews and marner? Yeah I’d say that’s pretty bad. Please read carefully though not 45 points 45 pace so actually 27-32 points (ish) people here hoping for that if he is on a line with matthews and marner that’s terrible

Not much of a diff from Johnson or kappy as I see it. In any event, better deploy him on the first line when he is fresh than at the end of the season.

 

[Walshy7]

Not much of a diff from Johnson or kappy as I see it. In any event, better deploy him on the first line when he is fresh than at the end of the season.

or never perhaps? Kapanen for his lack of iq can skate so can johnsson. If Thornton was at all capable of playing top 6 mins more than spot duty he’d be signed for more than $700k and likely still in San Jose. I have no problem with signing him for his locker room leadership and I believe he can help us but not holding back our elite talents in the top 6.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

or never perhaps? Kapanen for his lack of iq can skate so can johnsson. If Thornton was at all capable of playing top 6 mins more than spot duty he’d be signed for more than $700k and likely still in San Jose. I have no problem with signing him for his locker room leadership and I believe he can help us but not holding back our elite talents in the top 6.

Well, playing with Matthews and Marner is still to be seen what results they have. For my money, I’m not betting against Thornton going assist crazy this year.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I don't know if Thornton is fast enough to play with Matthews and Marner

Not a huge issue, IMO.

Matthews isn't known as a burner, and while Marner can get going, he's more of an East/West skater than a straight burner North/South like Kappy was.

Ideally you want Marner or Matthews making the zone entries anyway.

 

[Notsince67]

or never perhaps? Kapanen for his lack of iq can skate so can johnsson. If Thornton was at all capable of playing top 6 mins more than spot duty he’d be signed for more than $700k and likely still in San Jose. I have no problem with signing him for his locker room leadership and I believe he can help us but not holding back our elite talents in the top 6.

Maybe you should relax and let him play a couple of games before u pull out the pitchforks

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't know if Thornton is fast enough to play with Matthews and Marner

Maybe that adds a dimension with him coming late. It’s opposite to what Hyman does in getting there first. Rag the puck, wait for Joe, pass the puck to him and go find some open ice. Thornton uses his defensemen well to. It will be more high/low with him in there. Hyman kept everything low. It’s different for sure. Jumbo can cycle with the best of them still.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't know if Thornton is fast enough to play with Matthews and Marner

I don't think he has to be. He's smart enough, given he has some legs at all.

 

[LeafChief]

'Nowhere near the shooter that Matthews is, Joe Pavelski had consecutive seasons of 41, 37, and 38 goals playing primarily with Thornton, including a whole bunch on the power play. Jonathan Cheechoo famously had a 56-goal season thanks to Thornton.

The risk is assuming that that Thornton, a 26-year-old who won the Hart Trophy, is this Thornton. He’s not. But that doesn’t mean the passing ability has disappeared. Far from it. Thornton had Kevin Labanc and Marcus Sorensen on his wings last season and still finished with the same number of 5-on-5 assists (18) as Sidney Crosby, Anze Kopitar, Pierre-Luc Dubois and Jack Eichel.'

Joe Thornton, Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner: Analyzing the Leafs new top line

 

[zeke]

both are true. It’s not achievable without marner and matthews (or nylander tavares for that matter) and it’s no where near enough for a player playing alongside that caliber of player.

maybe I misquoted you a few posts back because my whole point was about him being on the 1st line is a waste of matthews and marner

Edit: I’m happy he is on the team but should not rise above the 3rd line except very rare circumstances

Palat scored at a 49pt pace last year playing mostly with Kucherov and Point.

 

[Ciao]

Seems a bit odd putting him on the top line at his age.

I would have thought they would try to shelter him with fewer minutes.

I do wonder if he can keep up the pace that's needed to play top-line minutes.

 

[Notsince67]

Seems a bit odd putting him on the top line at his age.

I would have thought they would try to shelter him with fewer minutes.

I do wonder if he can keep up the pace that's needed to play top-line minutes.

We should be happy keefe is trying different things. Without knowing his exact strategy, it is possible there are a number of things he is trying to achieve.
1. Marner and Matthews aren't a speed line per say. The strategy could be controlled possession. Joe would help because he is strong on the puck. Dump and hyman chase might not be the greatest strategy with these 2 guys.
2. Marner and Matthews could benefit from playing with a legend to pass the mantle. They are young and could use the experience to truly believe they on top of the food chain. They will be better than Joe and will truly understand how much better.
3. Who wouldn't want to play with friggin Joe Thorton. If they start winning out of the shoot, it will fire them up.
4. Thorton is no slouch. He provides hockey brains.
5. Everyone will try to play our 2 studs hard. Thorton will get away with stuff with the refs and may draw more net penalties

 

[The90]

No, this is your third post in a row disputing a pro rated 40-45 point projection. So you need to sort out whether your critique is:

1) 40-45 point pace for Joe Thornton is not achievable.

2) 40-45 points pace for Thornton at 1st line LW would be too low relative to the position.

This. If hyman stabilizes the third line. And Thornton can pick up 35 points minimum without being a boat anchor, that’s a win win.

 

[Notsince67]

This. If hyman stabilizes the third line. And Thornton can pick up 35 points minimum without being a boat anchor, that’s a win win.

Anything is possible. Teemu Selanne put up 80 points at 40 with arguably less firepower

 

[The90]

Anything is possible. Teemu Selanne put up 80 points at 40 with arguably less firepower

I agree. But I don’t expect near that. I know you don’t either and neither does any reasonable fan. Thornton will be secondary scoring. Selanne was still used as a primary scorer at the time. And Ice time directly effects point totals. Selanne also had much better wheels. It’ll be interesting that’s for sure.

 

[Notsince67]

I agree. But I don’t expect near that. I know you don’t either and neither does any reasonable fan. Thornton will be secondary scoring. Selanne was still used as a primary scorer at the time. And Ice time directly effects point totals. Selanne also had much better wheels. It’ll be interesting that’s for sure.

They were a run and gun team for sure. One thing keeps me curious of Thorton on the leafs. His possession stats are really really good. This line could see a bonafide monkey in the middle scenario that could really frustrate opponents. Matthews might be firing a machine gun with the looks he gets.

 

[PuckMagi]

I don't know if Thornton is fast enough to play with Matthews and Marner

Maybe he is... maybe he isn't.

I'm excited to see that combo in action!

I know that if it's not working, Keefe will switch it up. It's not like Babcock who kept doing the same thing even when it was obvious it wasn't working.

 

[meefer]

Gawd, people freakin and it will forever be. These are pros, Keefe and company will see whether it works or not in a couple of games. It's not rocket science shit. Does he add, does he subtract, we'll find out soon enough. I never thought about this, did you? Subtract special team minutes from Matthews and Marner and you're in close proximity. Could be great, good, eh, yikes bad. Allow it time to find out. Jeez, we're a fickle crowd.

 

[ToDavid]

I think I'm seeing what Keefe is going for with these lines. The expectation will be that Matthews/Marner and Tavares/Nylander can handle their own and Thornton and Vesey just need to be complimentary pieces. Although, personally I would swap them so you have two shooters on each line.

This opens up the potential for a very strong third line. Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Hyman will be a hard forechecking, pesky, defensively responsible line. Although not as strong, it feels like our version of Tampa's Goodrow-Gourde-Coleman line.