Player Discussion Joe Morrow

[BruinDust]

If you believe some of the mock drafts they have guys like Luke Schenn, Alex Petrovic, Luca Sbisa going to Vegas. You don't think Miller or McQuaid could be an improvement over them or the 7th guy?

Pick your poison, none of them are legit Top 4 guys.

And why would a team take injury prone one-dimensional D-men with no upside, with both money and term left on their deals, to be the 7th D-man?

Look, I'm not saying one of McQuaid or Kevan won't be chosen. They very well could be.

But it's far, far from the no-brainer choice some make it out to be.

I've said it before, but if Sweeney or the fans think Vegas is going to magically swoop in and relieve the Bruins of one of the multitude of bad long-term contracts handed out in the Sweeney era (McQuaid, Kevan, Belesky, and Hayes), they might be in for a surprise.

Personally if I am Vegas, I'd be looking more at Morrow, Colin, and Schaller. Younger, cheaper, minimal term commitment (flexibility) and still have upside.

 

[NDiesel]

Pick your poison, none of them are legit Top 4 guys.

And why would a team take injury prone one-dimensional D-men with no upside, with both money and term left on their deals, to be the 7th D-man?

Look, I'm not saying one of McQuaid or Kevan won't be chosen. They very well could be.

But it's far, far from the no-brainer choice some make it out to be.

I've said it before, but if Sweeney or the fans think Vegas is going to magically swoop in and relieve the Bruins of one of the multitude of bad long-term contracts handed out in the Sweeney era (McQuaid, Kevan, Belesky, and Hayes), they might be in for a surprise.

Personally if I am Vegas, I'd be looking more at Morrow, Colin, and Schaller. Younger, cheaper, minimal term commitment (flexibility) and still have upside.

You could be right, it realistically depends on who they expose. Perhaps someone like Miller or McQuaid could be traded for cheap to a team who lost defense depth in the expansion draft as well. Lots of options, but depends on a lot of things.

 

[LSCII]

Yet Krug is 2nd on the team in TOI. Maybe, just maybe, the team didn't have faith in Colin and Morrow and didn't expect a guy like Carlo to come out if the draft so quickly. Maybe, just maybe, filling a couple D spots with average to below average guys making 2.5-2.75m seemed like a better idea than overpaying in freeagency for a Sekera type and busting the long term budget. Look at the drafting, are McAvoy, Zboril and Lauzon stay at home knuckle draggers?

I've been through this too many times here now. Go back and look at Krug and how he got playing time here. I'll wait. It shouldn't take long...

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I think there's a corrolary to that Joe. He plays them because he doesn't have any better options. That's on the GM, although I am in agreement with wintersej, that paying Miller and McQuaid was a beter alternative to overpaying for a Sekera type of guy, who's not likely to be a difference maker anyway. All that said, I think the bigger issue is the offense, so I'm not sure why there's so much focus on the D, except that this is in the Morrow thread...

I disagree.

Personally, I think that both Chiller and Morrow are better options than guys he has been playing. If Liles doesn't get that concussion, Chiller never sees the ice (and plays well).

That's on Clode.

 

[BruinDust]

You could be right, it realistically depends on who they expose. Perhaps someone like Miller or McQuaid could be traded for cheap to a team who lost defense depth in the expansion draft as well. Lots of options, but depends on a lot of things.

Absolutely.

These guys are trade-able. You won't garner a massive return. I think their contracts are more of a deterrent than anything else. But they should be able to find new homes for at least one of them if they want, but like you said it might not be Vegas.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I've been through this too many times here now. Go back and look at Krug and how he got playing time here. I'll wait. It shouldn't take long...

Didn't something like 85 veteran D get hurt and Clode was literally forced to play Krug and Bart? Krug forced him to keep him in there once he got in.

 

[LSCII]

Everybody comes back to this crap that Julien somehow builds the roster.

Look, there is ZERO question that any coach has influence over a roster, ok? We all know that. But ultimately responsibility in that area falls to a GM. I mean if the GM doesn't own that, what does he own?

If youth aren't being developed on a team with no present day shot to compete, it's largely on the GM. And that's why I said "largely". Yes the coach is going to play guys he likes more often than not (though there have absolutely been instances of this and every coach playing guys he doesn't like to suit his boss). But it's still on the GM to maintain the right balance between competing tonight and developing players. If people think that balance is off, it's 100% on the GM. If Sweeney created a situation where the coach has all the guys he wants and no need or desire for kids, and the GM feels that's wrong, then it's on the GM to fix it.

I'm not complaining about getting Joe Morrow more ice because I think he's a JAG just like McQuaid, Miller and Liles so I think the difference is pretty much nothing between them, but if people are actually upset about this, I'd look to the GM who accumulated all these pylons for the defense. He had the choice not to. We didn't need McQuaid AND Kevan Miller. Liles wasn't good enough to supplant Colin Miller and Morrow on a mediocre roster looking to retool. But he signed them. And regardless of whether his coach wanted him to, if it's a net negative for the franchise, it's on the GM.

If you want to say that Sweeney deserves part of the blame for how this roster looks, then sure. I'm with you 100%. In this case specifically, I'm talking about the mismanagement of assets, mainly Colin Miller and Joe Morrow. After having both guys in their system for years, we still have no idea what each one is, tbh, and since that's about playing time, I tend to put the onus on Claude. Where Sweeney made his misstep is giving Claude alternatives like McQuaid, KMiller, and Liles to play over those guys. So again, he's not absolved at all.

 

[BruinDust]

Didn't something like 85 veteran D get hurt and Clode was literally forced to play Krug and Bart? Krug forced him to keep him in there once he got in.

Somewhat true.

But once Redden got hurt, it was basically between Krug, Hamilton, and Bartkowski. All young guys.

Would Krug had kept that spot after his scoring outburst vs. the Rangers if Claude had a veteran option to go to? Fact was he had a choice of 3 young players and went with Krug who was playing the best of the bunch at that time.

 

[LSCII]

Didn't something like 85 veteran D get hurt and Clode was literally forced to play Krug and Bart? Krug forced him to keep him in there once he got in.

Why yes, that's exactly what happened. Before that, he went through any available option simply to avoid playing Krug. Including Wade Redden, who hadn't played in the league for nearly 3 seasons before suiting up for Boston in the playoffs.

It's amazing how often people forget or flat out ignore the reality of something like that though. Which is why I bring it up so frequently. If Krug doesn't finally get in and go on that scoring streak, my guess is he'd be like Morrow and Colin Miller are today. Fighting just to get playing time.

 

[Hali33]

I do not believe that Sweeney hands McQuaid or Miller 4 year contracts for them to be the guys that draw in for injuries and have popcorn eating contests while the kids play.

Especially when it doesn't take a genius to know Claude's job is threatened if this team misses a 3rd time and "Claude's players" are still signed multiple years after he's gone.

I think they are both on the same page for who they want in the lineup most nights. Claude and Sweeney have worked together for a long time, I highly doubt he was caught off guard by who he wants in the lineup most nights.

 

[bp13]

If you want to say that Sweeney deserves part of the blame for how this roster looks, then sure. I'm with you 100%. In this case specifically, I'm talking about the mismanagement of assets, mainly Colin Miller and Joe Morrow. After having both guys in their system for years, we still have no idea what each one is, tbh, and since that's about playing time, I tend to put the onus on Claude. Where Sweeney made his misstep is giving Claude alternatives like McQuaid, KMiller, and Liles to play over those guys. So again, he's not absolved at all.

Part? He's the GM. He deserves the overwhelming majority of the blame.

 

[LSCII]

Part? He's the GM. He deserves the overwhelming majority of the blame.

For assembling the team and giving Claude players that he uses as binkies, yes. For how Claude doles out playing time and who dresses? Not at all. The only thing you can say is that he must be on board with the decisions, even if somewhat tacitly.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I disagree.

Personally, I think that both Chiller and Morrow are better options than guys he has been playing. If Liles doesn't get that concussion, Chiller never sees the ice (and plays well).

That's on Clode.

OK, I'll put it this way. Julien plays the guys he plays because he feels that he doesn't have better options. So I guess some of that goes to each of Julien and Sweeney together.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Part? He's the GM. He deserves the overwhelming majority of the blame.

Chiarelli won a cup.
Chiarelli got fired.

Julien won a cup
Julien....

They already fired 1 GM, they won't fire a second... or at least not before Julien is fired.

 

[chizzler]

I disagree.

Personally, I think that both Chiller and Morrow are better options than guys he has been playing. If Liles doesn't get that concussion, Chiller never sees the ice (and plays well).

That's on Clode.

I've made this comparison before. Just like Spooner situation.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Several posters say they are done with him.Don't understand that mentality of giving a player one game after sitting for like 20 and judging him, but that's what's happened to JM his entire career here.

It's not like you could tell Joe to play his game, and he'll be in the line up tomorrow even if he makes a mistake, just like all the other d'men do.
I'm not saying JM is a savior on D, just saying give him 10 to 15 games in a row, then evaluate.

If Morrow had played 10-15 games in a row and made those mistakes last night then I would be I agreement it's time to cut ties.

 

[LSCII]

OK, I'll put it this way. Julien plays the guys he plays because he feels that he doesn't have better options. So I guess some of that goes to each of Julien and Sweeney together.

Just to back this up for a second, Claude plays the guys he "feels" give him the best chance to win. Yet they don't win. So is that on Sweeney for not giving him enough, or on Claude for picking the wrong guys? I mean, at some point, with how the team has been mediocre and under performing offensively, you'd like to think the coach would make adjustments, no? Yet we get nothing but the same crap rolled out game after game. At what point does the issue fall at his feet? I need to know because if I read the narrative of the Claude-ites (including Claude himself), the roster isn't enough. They have too many holes to cover for. Yet he doesn't ever try other players that are available. So at what point is he part of the problem? And this isn't directed at you specifically. Just a general question to those that support Julien and want to see him retained.

 

[LSCII]

I've made this comparison before. Just like Spooner situation.

It is and it's another great example of the coach badly mishandling a player and devaluing an asset at the same time.

 

[BNHL]

If Morrow had played 10-15 games in a row and made those mistakes last night then I would be I agreement it's time to cut ties.

I'm not even sure that's enough. The wisdom is 200 games for a defenseman,let him grow,err and mature,unless he's a complete mess. There is no wisdom in the way they are being handled,they should be expecting what they are getting back,how could they not?

 

[Brewins]

I'm not even sure that's enough. The wisdom is 200 games for a defenseman,let him grow,err and mature,unless he's a complete mess. There is no wisdom in the way they are being handled,they should be expecting what they are getting back,how could they not?

Its like getting chinese food and waiting a month to eat the leftovers.

 

[LSCII]

I'm not even sure that's enough. The wisdom is 200 games for a defenseman,let him grow,err and mature,unless he's a complete mess. There is no wisdom in the way they are being handled,they should be expecting what they are getting back,how could they not?

This is exactly right. A young guy can't learn if he makes a mistake and gets to watch from up high for the next few weeks.

 

[BruinDust]

This is exactly right. A young guy can't learn if he makes a mistake and gets to watch from up high for the next few weeks.

An former boss of mine in my early working days told me "it's not the mistakes you make, it's how you respond to them that's important". Words I've always remembered any place I was employed.

How is Joe Morrow suppose to respond appropriately on the ice from his mistakes if he isn't on the ice for a month after making said mistake?

 

[LSCII]

An former boss of mine in my early working days told me "it's not the mistakes you make, it's how you respond to them that's important". Words I've always remembered any place I was employed.

How is Joe Morrow suppose to respond appropriately on the ice from his mistakes if he isn't on the ice for a month after making said mistake?

Yep. You're preaching to the choir. I don't get it. It drives me nuts. It makes me angry to think about the time that's been wasted not developing young guys because of mistakes, while vets make the same mistake and never hear a word.

 

[BruinDust]

Yep. You're preaching to the choir. I don't get it. It drives me nuts. It makes me angry to think about the time that's been wasted not developing young guys because of mistakes, while vets make the same mistake and never hear a word.

To me, they have wasted 2 1/2 seasons that they could of been pushing youth, but instead have consistently shunned youth in favor of veteran plugs with zero upside.

I remember when Morrow first got called up late in 2014. Chara was out and he got paired up with Hamilton.

And he looked good. Brought an element the D at the time was lacking, skill and puck-movement. He made sound, clean breakout passes. He played a fairly conservative game for a puck-mover, but I was OK with that. His defensive zone work wasn't great but it was decent enough for a 3rd pairing, especially considering you had veteran guys like Seids and McQuaid you could of paired him with.

But instead of saying "hey we might have something here if were patient enough to live with some rookie mistakes, a guy that was part of a package for a top young player like Seguin". Nope back to the minors for him. Never saw the Boston ice again that season. Zach Trotman sure did. A sophomore Kevan Miller sure did. But not Morrow. Why?

Contrast that to a year prior when Kevan Miller debuted. He had a strong early stretch, like Morrow did, and was quickly signed to a freakin' extension, never to see Providence again.

Sure that was under Chiarelli but Neely, Sweeney, JFJ, Bradley , and Julien are still here. And the philosophy remains the same. Morrow is just one example.

The amount of man-games wasted in the last 2 1/2 seasons on the likes of Campbell, Kevan, Gagne, Talbot, Kemppainen, McQuaid, Liles, Paille, Kelly, Seidenberg, Trotman, Nash, etc. etc. is atrocious.

This franchise could of easily cut that number in half and they would be at worst no worse off than they are today. The likelyhood is they would of been far better off had they embraced more of a youth movement coming out of that 2014 series loss, when it was clear to me anyways that it was time to move on from a lot of these players.

Folks can laugh at the Leafs all they want. But they iced a line-up on Saturday that featured NINE rookie skaters. Half their roster was freakin' rookies. Every single line had a rookie skater on it. And they are winning more games on average than this veteran Bruins squad. Fact, not opinion.

I'm not saying the Bruins can or should ice half a roster of rookies. I don't think that is realistic right now.

But clearly there is a happy middle ground between the number of vets and the number of young players that this coaching staff and management team fail to understand.

Claude sees young players and he see mistakes waiting to happen. Instead of accepting the mistakes to a degree, because the trade off is fire and hunger to succeed in this league. Something this veteran group seems to be lacking.

 

[DominicT]

Didn't something like 85 veteran D get hurt and Clode was literally forced to play Krug and Bart? Krug forced him to keep him in there once he got in.

Precisely what a kid should do when he gets the chance.

People act that the Bruins are the only team that acts in this manner. It's funny actually