Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey

[Raspewtin]

I am glad Vesey has been more than a black hole, which is what usually populates our fourth line (net negative players), but he hasn't been good enough to really command more than the minimum. This is what a fourth liner should be, not the Carpenters and Reaveses of the world who can't play hockey. We need to get Rydahl up here too.

But in this cap world I don't think Vesey was going to get the Blais or Motte contract from anyone. No one has money. He must have made his peace with the fact that it's better to get $800m in a place you want to be than to chase $1.1m but have to constantly be moving from Minnesota to Florida to Arizona to wherever. There's a value to actually enjoying the prime years of your life that the dollars in a contract can't wholly encapsulate. He must also know he's not gonna walk out of this league never having to work again, he's gonna have to parlay his NHL career into a front office or coaching job at some level and so he's making the connections for that as well.

I think you're underselling how strong Vesey is defensively. He instantly makes any line he's on way more responsible. He's also a fine PKer, not my favorite but fine.

 

[cwede]

Some players are drafted to be bottom 6 forwards.
Rempe, Edstrom and Grubbe come to mind.
What’s theIR path from Hartford?
I don’t expect them to put up big numbers in the AHL. What I would like is them to play the right way. Dump, chase and hit. Keep other teams top lines trapped in their own zone with their heads constantly on a swivel, opposing players not so much concerned about generating offense but more concerned about not being hammered.
10-12 minutes a night of pressure, I’ll take it.
Who was the last 4th line forward we developed and were successfully brought up to play on the Rangers for extended seasons?
A competitive team is made up of many different components much like an orchestra isn’t made up of all virtuoso violinist.

i get it but bottom 6 guys usually don't fast track to NHL
Rempe def needs at least another AHL season, if not 2,
zero evidence to project Grubbe at NHL level during Vesey's 2 seasons,
and next season will be Edstrom's first in NA

we just disagree,
i don't see the Vesey deal affecting any of those guys' career arcs
maybe Rueshchoff or Gettinger

there is a common expectation among HFB posters that guys in early 20's should move right into NHL
seems to me that is still the exception
ain't nothing wrong with initial cup of coffee at 21-23 and becoming a regular at 23-25

 

[mas0764]

I think you're underselling how strong Vesey is defensively. He instantly makes any line he's on way more responsible. He's also a fine PKer, not my favorite but fine.

The fact that we can point to his strong points is what makes him a quality fourth liner. Not enough offense to be my preference in the top 9, though, but my philosophy is three scoring lines. I like Vesey as a fourth liner just like I like Goodrow as a fourth liner and I like the idea of Blais as a fourth liner (though in reality Blais has just sucked and I can't wait till he's gone).

Those swiss army knife, defensively responsible, can chip in a little scoring types like Goodrow and Vesey are perfect for your fourth line, just like Fast, because then that's a player you can move up and down the lineup and it doesn't wreck you.

I don't want those types in my top 9 and especially not in my top 6, though. If you are in those roles I want you to be able to score 30, 35 points or more, without putting up a sweat. Or to have the skill to develop into that type of player at least, like Chytil and Kravstov.

 

[will1066]

Some players are drafted to be bottom 6 forwards.
Rempe, Edstrom and Grubbe come to mind.
What’s there path from Hartford?
I don’t expect them to put up big numbers in the AHL. What I would like is them to play the right way. Dump, chase and hit. Keep other teams top lines trapped in their own zone with their heads constantly on a swivel, opposing players not so much concerned about generating offense but more concerned about not being hammered.
10-12 minutes a night of pressure, I’ll take it.
Who was the last 4th line forward we developed and were successfully brought up to play on the Rangers for extended seasons?
A competitive team is made up of many different components much like an orchestra isn’t made up of all virtuoso violinist.

These lower-pick, higher-round selections will always be in the fringe category of making it in the bigs. Vesey originally was insurance, brought in if the organization didn't feel those draftees could cut it here yet. And now Drury locks him up for 2 more years as an insurance extension. If someone supplants him, they'll he go on waivers or live out the rest of his career in Hartford.

 

[Lion Hound]

Happy for Vesey. He's been good in his 2nd stint. The other night they were talking about him. Saying that Vesey didnt know if anyone would be interested and he was contemplating playing overseas. He's been a good story this season.

I think it was Drury that actually got Vesey to sign here out of College before he was GM. Guess these guys have a good relationship.

 

[McRanger92]

I think you're underselling how strong Vesey is defensively. He instantly makes any line he's on way more responsible. He's also a fine PKer, not my favorite but fine.

This version of defensive stalwart Vesey on essentially a 3 year 800k contract, is what Tampa traded a 1st to get Goodrow 50% retained for. I also like his ability to create chances shorthanded.

 

[cheech70]

Probably can trade him for a 3rd in the future

 

[The Crypto Guy]

This is very disheartening. A position has just been blocked for forwards prospects to advance. I would imagine that those developing in Hartford or those players who have been drafted but are not yet in the system sees this as a sign of the organization’s path forward. Does this also spill in to College, Junior and European free agents?
Which is it Chris Drury, Trade Buchnevich so the youth have adequate developmental time or sign a 30 year old journeyman and block and spot for an additional two years.
Pathetic

Who is he going to block? The Pack forwards are trash, nobody aside from Cuylle(and maybe a tiny chance Trivigno) really has any shot of making the Ranger's roster and Cuylle isn't going to be blocked by Vesey when he's ready to come up and see what he can do.

 

[Fitzy]

I mean if Vesey saved only 100k a year for each year in his pro career he could still retire comfortably- but some of these guys have a different concept of what 'comfortably' is than I do, I suppose.

Also he won't block anyone if he's handled right- Vesey can very comfortably be a 13th forward at that figure if he ends up getting displaced by Cuylle or someone else (Good problem to have and his contract is AHL buriable)

 

[n8]

So does he play harder now that he doesn't have to worry about his next contract? or does he play softer now that he doesn't have to worry about his next contract?

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Proud of Vesey. Dude worked his way from a professional tryout to a 2-year deal.

 

[RangerLifer]

Sorry if this was posted in here already....

 

[Mac n Gs]

Is all about the psyche of your youth.
Go back to the famous article by Brad Marchand.
When they go to camp or are down in the AHL all they think about is who’s ahead of them, who’s blocking them, maybe there will be an injury so they can get a chance of making their dream of being an NHL player.
I believe a successful organization wants their prospects to believe that by working hard and playing the right way there is a path for them. Vesey and all the other stop gaps just sends the wrong message.
Not Here.

That's such a ridiculous leap to think that signing Vesey for a cheap two-year deal is detracting from teaching our young prospects that working hard and playing the right way will open a path for them. Teams make these types of signings every single year that have absolutely no impact on how depth prospects develop. If the prospects are good enough, they'll get promoted and play. The Rangers have consistently shown this throughout their history with young players in Hartford performing well and getting promoted. Other successful teams like BOS, PIT, and TB do this all the time too.

 

[Baby Punisher]

ok now put him on the 4th line

Then scratch him for a month.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Who is he going to block? The Pack forwards are trash, nobody aside from Cuylle(and maybe a tiny chance Trivigno) really has any shot of making the Ranger's roster and Cuylle isn't going to be blocked by Vesey when he's ready to come up and see what he can do.

That’s the thing though. How can you judge a prospect’s true value if he is not playing with quality players.
If you have a defensive forward and he’s placed on a line with less talented teammates he might appear horrible. Is that player going to go one-on-five against an attacking unit.
Same for a gifted scorer who plays with line mates who can’t get him the puck or an exceptional passer who’s line mates can’t score.

 

[n8]

Who is he going to block? The Pack forwards are trash, nobody aside from Cuylle(and maybe a tiny chance Trivigno) really has any shot of making the Ranger's roster and Cuylle isn't going to be blocked by Vesey when he's ready to come up and see what he can do.

Next season will be Cuylle and Othmann but there is room for them to fight right now.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Trocheck-Othmann
Laf-Chytil-Kravtsov
Cuylle-Goodrow-Vesey/Gauthier

out Blais,

 

[Mandar]

Next season will be Cuylle and Othmann but there is room for them to fight right now.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Trocheck-Othmann
Laf-Chytil-Kravtsov
Cuylle-Goodrow-Vesey/Gauthier

out Blais,

you left out Kane....

 

[n8]

you left out Kane....

ok, so now Vesey is blocking us from signing Kane. Dang it. That bum Jimmy took up all the cap space we needed for Patty!

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Fantastic deal of a depth signing.

Good player who's completely figured out how his skillset translates to the NHL game. Thats valuable.

Happy for Vesey, this gives him security knowing he'll likely stick around in the area for a few years and can settle down and not worry about another PTO somewhere around the league next summer.

Its 800K AAV, but for the player its 1.6M and peace of mind. Good for him

 

[leetch99]

Is all about the psyche of your youth.
Go back to the famous article by Brad Marchand.
When they go to camp or are down in the AHL all they think about is who’s ahead of them, who’s blocking them, maybe there will be an injury so they can get a chance of making their dream of being an NHL player.
I believe a successful organization wants their prospects to believe that by working hard and playing the right way there is a path for them. Vesey and all the other stop gaps just sends the wrong message.
Not Here.

Well so far we don't have any current 4th liner holding any potential rookie 4th liners up from being regular NHL 4th liners....that I am aware of and likely not next year either unless we see Rempe or Edstrom on steroids over the summer ......so by the time we have somebody ready to be a 4th line NHL regular......we should have used up the best before date on Vesey I would figure LOL. The only guy maybe that might be ready next season...and a maybe at that id Cuylee . He also could just as easy enough be gone in a trade .

 

[mrmovies779]

Is all about the psyche of your youth.
Go back to the famous article by Brad Marchand.
When they go to camp or are down in the AHL all they think about is who’s ahead of them, who’s blocking them, maybe there will be an injury so they can get a chance of making their dream of being an NHL player.
I believe a successful organization wants their prospects to believe that by working hard and playing the right way there is a path for them. Vesey and all the other stop gaps just sends the wrong message.
Not Here.

I hope you didn't break any bones with that giant leap

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

"Deep down I wanted to be here," Vesey told NHL.com before a 5-3 win against the New York Islanders on Dec. 22. "I kind of flip-flopped. At times I was like, there is opportunity but at other times I thought they had just been to the (Eastern Conference Final), so it might be a challenge.

"I didn't have a whole lot of options, it was kind of make or break, I went with my gut and I'm just over the moon with how everything has gone. I had a good camp, parlayed that into a contract and off to a good start."

"One of the big things I had in my favor coming into camp is they lost (free agent Tyler) Motte, a guy that plays on the penalty kill, things like that. That's what I was going for, more penalty kill, defense, fourth line. I don't know what it is, but after I got healthy scratched earlier in the year (Oct. 23), I've just been kind of just let everything go and I've just been going out and playing. Those couple weeks following the scratch were some of the best hockey I've played in any year pro. I've just been riding that. Penalty kill has been a big part of it, but I also think 'Turk' (Rangers coach Gerard Gallant), I've earned his trust, playing at the end of the game and he's put me with top players."

"I think the three years away from here I've learned a lot about myself," Vesey said. "None of the stops really went as I planned. For whatever reason, I wasn't comfortable, didn't play well. I don't know. One year was a COVID year (2019-20), which was miserable. But I think at this point, this is some of the best hockey I've played. I think I'm more useful to a team now even though I might not score as many goals. I'm really happy with where I am. I think I'm a 200-foot player that can bring a lot of value to a team on a cheaper contract, playing penalty kill and chipping in offensively."

 

[kovazub94]

That’s the thing though. How can you judge a prospect’s true value if he is not playing with quality players.
If you have a defensive forward and he’s placed on a line with less talented teammates he might appear horrible. Is that player going to go one-on-five against an attacking unit.
Same for a gifted scorer who plays with line mates who can’t get him the puck or an exceptional passer who’s line mates can’t score.

How about this - if a fringe prospect can't beat a $800k 4th liner I don't care if he makes it or not.

 

[pld459666]

Tjats S. I. C. K.

 

[bhamill]

Some players are drafted to be bottom 6 forwards.
Rempe, Edstrom and Grubbe come to mind.
What’s there path from Hartford?
I don’t expect them to put up big numbers in the AHL. What I would like is them to play the right way. Dump, chase and hit. Keep other teams top lines trapped in their own zone with their heads constantly on a swivel, opposing players not so much concerned about generating offense but more concerned about not being hammered.
10-12 minutes a night of pressure, I’ll take it.
Who was the last 4th line forward we developed and were successfully brought up to play on the Rangers for extended seasons?
A competitive team is made up of many different components much like an orchestra isn’t made up of all virtuoso violinist.

I'd say Grubbe, Eadstrom and Rempe are all at LEAST three years away from being ready... and if they want to make the jump earlier they may have to outcompete Vesey, so be it. All good in my book. Rempe is the oldest at 20 or is Eadstrom older? I think Eadstrom might have just turned 22, so maybe 24-25 in NY for him. Not worried.

Is all about the psyche of your youth.
Go back to the famous article by Brad Marchand.
When they go to camp or are down in the AHL all they think about is who’s ahead of them, who’s blocking them, maybe there will be an injury so they can get a chance of making their dream of being an NHL player.
I believe a successful organization wants their prospects to believe that by working hard and playing the right way there is a path for them. Vesey and all the other stop gaps just sends the wrong message.
Not Here.

Vesey on a 800K contract should not be intimidating any of these kids.