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Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey Part II

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Pavel Buchnevich said:
Vesey's on pace for 27 points in 79 games. He had 27 in 80 last season. He's also played more this season.

Thats fine for a 9th forward or a 4th line guy, but that also ignores that Vesey is terrible defensively, and loses every board battle he faces. There would be a role for him, if he was good at the things most bottom 6'ers are good at. He's not though.
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He is. I think he’s fine on the boards and average defensively. He can’t pass but for a bottom six give me 6 of him
 
darko said:
Buchnevich is twice the player Vesey is. Neither should be getting the hate.
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Buchnevich has tons more skill and not as many goals. Explain please. He should be much better and plays with better line mates to boot
 
darko said:
Decent accomplishment for a guy you don't consider to be NHL player.
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Here's the problem with that though.

Lets say Brandon Pirri was fourth on our team in goals. Would you be campaigning for him to stay?

Vesey is good at one thing that actually matters towards having an NHL role, goal-scoring. I guess you could say he's also a good skater, but you won't keep a role in the NHL because of skating. Vesey does not pass well, he does not have a good hockey IQ, he is not good defensively, he's not a tough guy.

If you are only good at scoring goals, and you aren't elite at it, merely good, you probably won't keep a role in the league long-term, but might be able to bounce around for 5 years.

Edit: I'm not saying you are really campaigning for Vesey, more that in general that there's a Jimmy Vesey on every team.
 
Nopuckluck said:
Buchnevich has tons more skill and not as many goals. Explain please. He should be much better and plays with better line mates to boot
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They play with similar linemates. Buch has twice as many points. Vesey is a scorer. Buch is a playmaker.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Here's the problem with that though.

Lets say Brandon Pirri was fourth on our team in goals. Would you be campaigning for him to stay?

Vesey is good at one thing that actually matters towards having an NHL role, goal-scoring. I guess you could say he's also a good skater, but you won't keep a role in the NHL because of skating. Vesey does not pass well, he does not have a good hockey IQ, he is not good defensively, he's not a tough guy.

If you are only good at scoring goals, and you aren't elite at it, merely good, you probably won't keep a role in the league long-term, but might be able to bounce around for 5 years.
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Yes because you also need players that can play in bottom 6. I'd be happy to have Vesey bounce around between 3rd and 4th lines.
 
darko said:
Yes because you also need players that can play in bottom 6. I'd be happy to have Vesey bounce around between 3rd and 4th lines.
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I don't see the consistent role going into next season.

Kreider, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Zuccarello, Hayes, Spooner, Namestnikov, Chytil, Andersson. Thats nine top 9 forwards right there. Thats the top 9, unless we get rid of some of those players, but if we do that, we could always sign someone like Kovalchuk or Nash, anyway.

Then you have a player like Fast for 4RW, we also need a 4C, and that won't be Vesey as he's not a center, so there's one spot available for a 4LW. Considering the forward group, most of those guys are offensive guys, I think we could use a defensive guy for 4LW, so while I guess Vesey could be 4LW, I don't really see a guaranteed top 12 spot for him next season.

We don't need to give him away, but I'm not sure he definitely has a role with this team going forward.
 
Give me a bottom six player that scores 17 a year ALL DAY EVERY DAY. Do the math. 17 times 6 = 102 goals from your bottom 6. If your top 6 just matches that it’s 204 goals. That’s 2.5 goals per game not counting defenders. Vesey is a really good bottom 6 NHLer
 
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Nopuckluck said:
Give me a bottom six player that scores 17 a year ALL DAY EVERY DAY. Do the math. 17 times 6 = 102 goals from your bottom 6. If your top 6 just matches that it’s 204 goals. That’s 2.5 goals per game not counting defenders. Vesey is a really good bottom 6 NHLer
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But he only scores when playing in the top 6.....
 
Machinehead said:
Hold on let me whip out the analytics
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O7sdzo.gif
 
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Ok, so since the deadline, Vesey has a CF%rel of +4.05. You read that right. His CF/60 rates is one of the best on the team.

Since then, he had 8 of his 17 goals, in just 12 games. Guy who excels in front of the net scores when his team is spamming shots. Not rocket science.

The important thing is, he's legitimately playing great hockey for the last 12 games.

He and Namestnikov have clicked - +4.88 corsi rel together. Small sample size, but I think the "trade Namestnikov" crowd needs to pump the breaks for a little while. In the meantime, I'll pump the breaks on Vesey being terrible.
 
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Machinehead said:
Ok, so since the deadline, Vesey has a CF%rel of +4.05. You read that right. His CF/60 rates is one of the best on the team.

Since then, he had 8 of his 17 goals, in just 12 games. Guy who excels in front of the net scores when his team is spamming shots. Not rocket science.

The important thing is, he's legitimately playing great hockey for the last 12 games.

He and Namestnikov have clicked - +4.88 corsi rel together. Small sample size, but I think the "trade Namestnikov" crowd needs to pump the breaks for a little while. In the meantime, I'll pump the breaks on Vesey being terrible.
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Let me just file this under the evidence folder titled "More reasons while Vesey needs real players to be success"

Said folder is already filed under another folder titled "No shit Sherlock" ;)
 
Irishguy42 said:
Let me just file this under the evidence folder titled "More reasons while Vesey needs real players to be success"

Said folder is already filed under another folder titled "No **** Sherlock" ;)
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Who has been with, mostly?

I feel like none of our forwards are bad, except....Vesey :laugh:
 
Machinehead said:
Who has been with, mostly?

I feel like none of our forwards are bad, except....Vesey :laugh:
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I will have to check in the morning on Corsica.

This is also a systems thing too, which Vesey is probably just going to end up being a player who succeeds based on who the coach is.

Little column A, ...
 
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What Vesey is to me is a better version of Ryan Gropp. His play away from the puck is one thing he needs to get better at. More consistency with his offense. He's got pretty decent finishing skills though and a knack for getting sneaky goals now and again. He could use a bit more snarl and he needs to get a bit stronger.

Because Buchnevich has shown up in this conversation again I'll chime in on him---since his concussion he's been a little reticent getting to the net which is a main reason why he's stopped scoring goals. He's out on the perimeter too much. He's better defensively than Vesey--has a higher hockey IQ and better overall skill. He can get away with perimeter play more than Vesey because he is a lot more creative playmaker.....but if he's going to become a top notch player he's going to have to go to the net a lot more. Kucherov does. Tarasenko does and they score lots of goals because they do. Like Vesey also Pavel needs to get stronger. Other than Desharnais he is about the easiest player on the team to knock over.
 
Machinehead said:
Ok, so since the deadline, Vesey has a CF%rel of +4.05. You read that right. His CF/60 rates is one of the best on the team.

Since then, he had 8 of his 17 goals, in just 12 games. Guy who excels in front of the net scores when his team is spamming shots. Not rocket science.

The important thing is, he's legitimately playing great hockey for the last 12 games.

He and Namestnikov have clicked - +4.88 corsi rel together. Small sample size, but I think the "trade Namestnikov" crowd needs to pump the breaks for a little while. In the meantime, I'll pump the breaks on Vesey being terrible.
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Namesntikov has been awful though, if you watch his play. He's just there, and I would argue he's made more errors than good plays. There are guys who actually play pretty well for 10-15 game spans and it doesn't show up in the CF percentage, and there are players who don't play well and they have a good corsi for a 10-15 span.
 
He's very versatile. A winger, under 25 who can play up and down the lineup is really good to have. It'd be cool if he was a bit feistier... points are points... 17 goals is as good as any second line forward... I'm going to guess his defensive and physical play will improve with time... looking to trade him rather than give him what will be a smaller bridge deal would be pretty stupid in the early stages of the rebuild unless offered a top 40 pick or something.
 
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Nopuckluck said:
People hate on this kid for no reason. The only reason I can potentially see is they have an agenda because he scores more than their Karl Marx savior Buchnevich
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Dude you're f***ing out to lunch. What does a "Karl Marx savior" even mean? Is it some shot at him because he's Russian? Your posts are adding negative value to this board.
 
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