OT: Jimmy Vesey discussion continues ... Pt 2 (Signs with NYR)
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GAGLine
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- Sep 17, 2007
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I think you're selling the Rangers short here. 7th in the league in goals per game last year with Nash having a very down year by his standards. Losing Yandle will hurt, but I expect that we'll see better numbers from Nash at least, and possibly others.
Trading Brassard for Zibanejad is at worst a slight downgrade offensively.
Adding Vesey and Buchnevich gives us better depth.
Defensively is where we are hurting, but most of that was our penalty kill, which we have addressed. The Rangers only gave up 129 goals 5 on 5 last year (tied for 6th in the league with Minn). LA lead the league with 121 goals against 5 on 5.
On the PK (4 vs 5) we gave up 47 goals (tied for 6th worst with Florida).
Yes, we still need to get rid of Staal/Girardi and find a right handed PMD, but I think they will both be better than last year if they are healthy. How much better, who knows, but hopefully enough that we can find a way to move them. I trust that Gorton will find a way to fix that situation. It may take some time, but he will get it done.
I also expect that Nash and/or Klein will be traded before the expansion draft, which may be how we acquire a PMD. As long as we keep making smart moves that help improve us for the future, we should be alright. We really went for it in recent years and fell short. We can't keep doing that and hope to keep competing year after year. Thankfully, Gorton realizes that.
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
- Aug 18, 2005
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Probably a good choice by Vesey not to go TO. He would likely be fourth in line behind the #1 picks so not going to be the guy they are working hardest to develop. Still a magnifying glass in New York but players seem to like to go there. Chicago or Boston make more sense to me but the pitch meeting with the organization counts for so much and the Rags are never far from having a big year for very long.
WTFMAN99
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I'm personally not pumping Grabner's tires but that is what I have noticed...NYR have been trying to replace Hagelin the last couple of years...
Budsfan
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This has been a dog and pony show and I for one am glad Vesey chose a team, reasonably quickly, he would have been a good addition but I'm not sure he could have lived up to expectations and he will be like most young prospects and will have to earn a job.
With the Leafs, things have changed and no one is guaranteed a spot on the team, they have to earn it, even Matthews has to play a role on the third line and move his way up by his play (I expect he will) but nothing is etched in stone.
With the Leafs, things have changed and no one is guaranteed a spot on the team, they have to earn it, even Matthews has to play a role on the third line and move his way up by his play (I expect he will) but nothing is etched in stone.
TLeafsFan
A True BeLeafer
He went somewhere extremely thin on good prospects so he was much more needed in NY than here where being an active part of the Leafs future core would have proven a far more challenging task for him.
Now we can get to watch our talented youth skate circles around him and put him on his ass. All good.
Now we can get to watch our talented youth skate circles around him and put him on his ass. All good.
gravyface
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- Jun 22, 2010
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ShaneFalco
Registered User
Vesey now sucks
He's a bum
He's not even smart
He looks funny
He knows **** about hockey
He's a bum
He's not even smart
He looks funny
He knows **** about hockey
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Leafsman
I guess $11M doesn't buy you what it use to
- May 22, 2008
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I think I was more happy to see him not go to Buffalo than I would've been to see him sign here.
The most astounding truth is that is that signing Vesey would've been as much a detriment than he was an addition.
While he would've been a great addition to the development pool. he would've been a detriment to the development process. It would've been tough to play this year with Vesey, Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Zaitsev. Even without the addition of Vesey we are pushing it.
Focus can now shift back to the current prospect pool and creating a plan for them. Vesey may have played without fully deserving it over a Nylander/Marner.
The most astounding truth is that is that signing Vesey would've been as much a detriment than he was an addition.
While he would've been a great addition to the development pool. he would've been a detriment to the development process. It would've been tough to play this year with Vesey, Matthews, Nylander, Marner and Zaitsev. Even without the addition of Vesey we are pushing it.
Focus can now shift back to the current prospect pool and creating a plan for them. Vesey may have played without fully deserving it over a Nylander/Marner.
WTFMAN99
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Budsfan
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Vesey now sucks
I don't think he sucks and I do believe he is a good prospect but when we went to the meeting in Boston, he was probably told they would put him on a line with Matthews and Nylander but it was projected as the 3rd line and as the line gelled, they would get more ice time.
The Rangers probably offered him top 6 minutes, The Leafs now do not just place a player in the top 6, the policy now is they have to earn a job.
Plus New York is a lot closer to Boston where he wants to be.
Calling the Rangers weird is an insult. I got infracted on this board for saying the Rangers were signing Vesey. It was too obvious. No wonder Leaf fans take a bit of heat. Calling the richest team in the league weird is beyond ignorant. Make the playoffs.
Mess
Global Moderator
Vesey made no secret that he wanted to be close to home and that made the drive to NYC a logical choice, if he believed the pressure in his hometown was too great and the anonymity of bright lights big city gave him that.
When he went public with that, it seemed that Leafs were out because of that, & going to a foreign country decreased the odds further.
This would have been a tough sell for Shanny.
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
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Calm down, I didn't mean it as an insult.
I just meant - they're weird in where they are right now. + what Vesey had wanted. I do remember you saying that Vesey would sign in the Rangers, so good on you for the win. I'm not upset that that he didn't sign with us. It really doesn't bother me in the slightest - it would have been nice to add, but for Toronto he would have just been sprinkles, and I think most people here would agree.
I just think, for how the Rangers are set up right now - they are making a push to win a cup right now. a good chunk (from what I remember, and it's in the middle of the summer, and I am fully focused on the Olympics right now). of their draft picks + prospect pool have been traded recently, to try to go over the hump. The Rangers are high against the cap, though they could help a lot of their issues if they trade Nash. if Vesey's comments about his 2nd-3rd contracts situation comes into play, are they situated in the next few years to really accommodate him or like a Pittsburgh, like a Chicago would they trade him to get either
1: a piece they need to go over the top
2: trade him to afford the pieces they need to stay relevant.
Whatever he is promised now, means nothing when the puck drops in October, and just the dynamics of the Ranger's situation is a weird one. (like Chicago. Like. Pittsburgh). so it does seem he was making the choice to be "close to home' (stated), but I don't know personally if he considered the other avenues more than the post-career choice. Which could easily be his biggest priority outside playing with a team close to home, who is poised for at least 1 or 2 (maybe 3) more playoff pushes, depending on Lundquvist and other shrewd moves by Gorton. (if he indeed took over, again. focused on the Olympics).
So they're "weird" in that sense. If you want to take that as an insult or make it like i'm ignorant, whatever. And i'm sure the Leafs are doing what they can to do so, and when we do, that we're poised to make deep runs, and potentially win the cup, without having to sacrifice too much depth or assets to remain a contender.
TLeafsFan
A True BeLeafer
FlareKnight
Registered User
I'm not going to pick on the Rangers. They've been a competitive team for quite a while and with Lundqvist they should still be able to get in the playoffs.
But...not sure how they take the step to being a Cup Contender with that roster. Vesey is a nice addition, but not nearly enough. And it's tough for them to make additions when they do have the kind of cap hits and term for Nash (more cap than term) and Girardi. Once Lundqvist takes a step back with age, that group is going to seriously struggle to get in the front door.
And if you go onto other team's boards to make a fuss, well look out for infractions. It happens all the time when guys here have gone to other boards as well. Work with the limits the mods have set out or take the hit.
I'm still fine with the Vesey situation. A lot of young forwards fighting for spots going into camp. He would have simply been another one of them. I can understand why he'd go elsewhere. If he's worried about that 2nd contract then certainly he would compete with other guys for money and I can see wanting to go somewhere with a bit less prospect depth. Best of luck to him, made the choice that works for him.
But...not sure how they take the step to being a Cup Contender with that roster. Vesey is a nice addition, but not nearly enough. And it's tough for them to make additions when they do have the kind of cap hits and term for Nash (more cap than term) and Girardi. Once Lundqvist takes a step back with age, that group is going to seriously struggle to get in the front door.
And if you go onto other team's boards to make a fuss, well look out for infractions. It happens all the time when guys here have gone to other boards as well. Work with the limits the mods have set out or take the hit.
I'm still fine with the Vesey situation. A lot of young forwards fighting for spots going into camp. He would have simply been another one of them. I can understand why he'd go elsewhere. If he's worried about that 2nd contract then certainly he would compete with other guys for money and I can see wanting to go somewhere with a bit less prospect depth. Best of luck to him, made the choice that works for him.
By by Vesey
He made a huge mistake.
Babcock is the best coach to take this kid to the next level.
I kind of figured that the Rangers were the only team besides Buffalo. That were giving him a guarantee of top 6 spot.
Now can we let this thread die.
He made a huge mistake.
Babcock is the best coach to take this kid to the next level.
I kind of figured that the Rangers were the only team besides Buffalo. That were giving him a guarantee of top 6 spot.
Now can we let this thread die.
BodaciousBeefBazooka
Go Leafs Go
First, Manager Lou, didn'i coddle Mr. Vesey with hugs and kisses. That the Leafs want and need him so much. David Conte (now with Vegas) mentioned that Lou would challenge the kid. Put the onus on him. Show us what ya got, which is smart.
Secondly, hockey is a team sport as opposed to boxing or golf. In hockey, metaphors like 'family' fly around left and right. If that's the case, wouldn't you think Vesey would be more compelled to sign where Father and Brother scout and play?
It seems selfish and a lack of competitive fire to not come to a Leaf training camp, filled with hungry prospects.
Instead going to an older Ranger team, where as the young buck, he'll get all the fanfare and pressure.
Also, maybe he has his exit planned to Boston in a few years, after getting his feet wet in New Yawk.
Secondly, hockey is a team sport as opposed to boxing or golf. In hockey, metaphors like 'family' fly around left and right. If that's the case, wouldn't you think Vesey would be more compelled to sign where Father and Brother scout and play?
It seems selfish and a lack of competitive fire to not come to a Leaf training camp, filled with hungry prospects.
Instead going to an older Ranger team, where as the young buck, he'll get all the fanfare and pressure.
Also, maybe he has his exit planned to Boston in a few years, after getting his feet wet in New Yawk.
Mats13
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- Apr 22, 2015
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If you were to name a team with the worst NHL future right now, you might pick the Rangers. With all of Vesey's options, this is not the best hockey choice.
Daisy Jane
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